Is Romania an enemy of Russia?

Russian Foreign Ministry says Romania turning into US,NATO bridgehead near Russia’s border

According to a Russian diploamt, it’s obvious that Russia poses no threat to either Romania or any other country

MOSCOW, April 8. /TASS/. Romania’s leadership is turning the country into a US and NATO bridgehead close to Russia’s border and is ready for timeserving reasons "to sacrifice the interests of maintaining stability" in the Black Sea region, Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said on Wednesday.

"In actual fact, they are seeking to turn the country into another bridgehead for the United States and NATO close to Russia’s border," the diplomat said, commenting on the steps taken by Bucharest to accommodate US and NATO forces on its territory.

"We have repeatedly commented on similar steps by a number of NATO member-countries, noting their confrontational nature and emphasizing their absolute inadequacy and redundancy, both militarily and financially."

"It’s obvious that Russia poses no threat to either Romania or any other country," Lukashevich noted. "Allegations about the purely defensive nature of these moves and the so-called "threat from the east" don’t stand up to scrutiny."

According to the Foreign Ministry spokesman, it’s hard to escape a conclusion that "the current Romanian leaders seeking to improve their profile in the eyes of overseas policymakers, who openly neglect their commitments under the 1997 NATO-Russia Founding Act on the non-deployment of ‘substantial combat forces’ on the territory of new Alliance members, are ready for timeserving reasons to sacrifice the interests of maintaining stability in the Black Sea region.".

Some bridgehead.

Romania's tanks are some 3 generations behind with the imminent introduction of the Armata, and its fighters are likewise 2 full generations behind with the coming introduction of the PAK-FA.

T-55s and MiG-21s were all the rage in the late 50s; but this is 2015 FFS.

The country is really not so significant militarily. Anything America sends there would be similarly vulnerable. Maybe they're counting on the Ukronazis to protect them?

Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Yes and no.

An army con obtain lots of weaponry without spending a ridiculous amount. All depends on type of equipment. Since Romania is in NATO, that cannot happen. But if they were not? Well, JF-17 fighters can be had for cheap and are decent fighters from I hear. Learn to build your own tanks, rifles, manpads, etc. Many equipment can be had for cheap. Azerbaijan doesnt have a huge military budget yet has a very powerful army. Dunno about airforce though. Romania doesnt need massive amounts of frigates but well armed corvettes would do well, and some cheaper diesel electric subs.

A lot of this can be had for cheaper and effective. But once you join some stupid special club of warmongers that has their standards which limit where one can buy from, well, you end up limiting your capabilities.

sepheronx wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Yes and no.

An army con obtain lots of weaponry without spending a ridiculous amount. All depends on type of equipment. Since Romania is in NATO, that cannot happen. But if they were not? Well, JF-17 fighters can be had for cheap and are decent fighters from I hear. Learn to build your own tanks, rifles, manpads, etc. Many equipment can be had for cheap. Azerbaijan doesnt have a huge military budget yet has a very powerful army. Dunno about airforce though. Romania doesnt need massive amounts of frigates but well armed corvettes would do well, and some cheaper diesel electric subs.

A lot of this can be had for cheaper and effective. But once you join some stupid special club of warmongers that has their standards which limit where one can buy from, well, you end up limiting your capabilities.

Romania's naval capabilities are similarly obsolete by 2015 standards; I remember some time ago I heard talk of them essentially converting or building a cargo vessel as a warship?

Romania does have some industries, but basically little money for the military budget. As you mentioned - they are limited in terms of whom they can buy from. So much so that they are even limiting themselves from investing into their own military industries; they are pressured to buy into foreign ones instead.

Ha, does my useless country (and hopefully at some point to become ex-country) really deserves 3 pages of discussion? Waste of kilobytes really.

Anyway as far as i can make out, to make out how Russia's image has been "cultivated" in Romania, just imagine the pukrainians, it's just as bad (except there is no war - yet at least). The traitorous politicians and fifth columnists transformed it into one of the most obedient US vassals, and the population into one of the most  brainwashed. They are even a trojan horse in the EU (anti-EU sentiments are widely cultivated), it should not be part the EU,  should be thrown out at once, the EU is riddled with infighting and sabotaged from every direction (to serve the US) that is true, but double-faced countries like Romania are an additional burden.

The favourite "sport" is to blame Russia for everything that is wrong (forgetting or not realizing that the most abject politicians and interest groups are hysterically trying to get noticed and serve their US masters above anything else), badmouth the other neighbours and EU countries in every way and dream of how the americans are going to come and save them from the evil Russia and whoever else, because they feel they are oh so important and oh such an "strategic ally" to the US. Personally, been banned on this or that romanian blog for daring to raise the above, and make the point that being such a pathetic frantic vassal to a foreign power against a neighbour (or almost neighbour), will likely cause Bucharest and the rest to transform into green glass if the s**t  hits the fan (without necessarily Washington and Moscow sharing the same fate, this is what vassals are for, to use them as pawns and "playground"). Truth really hurts i guess.

Anyway, as for the military, having seen it from the inside, it's just a joke, probably even worse now. Again, i can hardly imagine it being terribly better that the pukes, hell they don't have nowhere near the quantity and quality of gear the pukes have (or had). There was a fairly substantial defence industry in 1990 as probably some of you know, it's product were not really up to date, but at least the capability was there. Today, all of that is practically gone, sold, dismantled, you name it. And that definitely wasn't Russia's hand, but hey, good luck trying to communicate that to zombies.

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Yes and no.

An army con obtain lots of weaponry without spending a ridiculous amount. All depends on type of equipment. Since Romania is in NATO, that cannot happen. But if they were not? Well, JF-17 fighters can be had for cheap and are decent fighters from I hear. Learn to build your own tanks, rifles, manpads, etc. Many equipment can be had for cheap. Azerbaijan doesnt have a huge military budget yet has a very powerful army. Dunno about airforce though. Romania doesnt need massive amounts of frigates but well armed corvettes would do well, and some cheaper diesel electric subs.

A lot of this can be had for cheaper and effective. But once you join some stupid special club of warmongers that has their standards which limit where one can buy from, well, you end up limiting your capabilities.

Romania's naval capabilities are similarly obsolete by 2015 standards; I remember some time ago I heard talk of them essentially converting or building a cargo vessel as a warship?

Romania does have some industries, but basically little money for the military budget. As you mentioned - they are limited in terms of whom they can buy from. So much so that they are even limiting themselves from investing into their own military industries; they are pressured to buy into foreign ones instead.

The navy's most important ships are one Marasesti and two F22 frigates (but these are practically unarmed, they don't have any missile systems fitted as of now), possible some of the 3 Tarantul too (but don't know if they are still operational), the single Kilo sub has never left dock in probably 12 if not 15 years, even if some are continuously daydreaming about getting it fixed (hell, like an old Kilo is going to make an impression on the russian BSF). The other combatants are hardly worthwhile since they don't have any missile armament.

sepheronx wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Yes and no.

An army con obtain lots of weaponry without spending a ridiculous amount. All depends on type of equipment. Since Romania is in NATO, that cannot happen. But if they were not? Well, JF-17 fighters can be had for cheap and are decent fighters from I hear. Learn to build your own tanks, rifles, manpads, etc. Many equipment can be had for cheap. Azerbaijan doesnt have a huge military budget yet has a very powerful army. Dunno about airforce though. Romania doesnt need massive amounts of frigates but well armed corvettes would do well, and some cheaper diesel electric subs.

A lot of this can be had for cheaper and effective. But once you join some stupid special club of warmongers that has their standards which limit where one can buy from, well, you end up limiting your capabilities.

Azerbaijan has a military budget of $5 billion, not huge but not really small either. Much larger countries like Pakistan and Iran has military budgets of $7-8 billion. So there is in fact a considerable sum for arms procurement in Azerbaijan's military budget (at least $1.5 billion has been allocated for this purpose annually since 2011).

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Yes and no.

An army con obtain lots of weaponry without spending a ridiculous amount. All depends on type of equipment. Since Romania is in NATO, that cannot happen. But if they were not? Well, JF-17 fighters can be had for cheap and are decent fighters from I hear. Learn to build your own tanks, rifles, manpads, etc. Many equipment can be had for cheap. Azerbaijan doesnt have a huge military budget yet has a very powerful army. Dunno about airforce though. Romania doesnt need massive amounts of frigates but well armed corvettes would do well, and some cheaper diesel electric subs.

A lot of this can be had for cheaper and effective. But once you join some stupid special club of warmongers that has their standards which limit where one can buy from, well, you end up limiting your capabilities.

Romania's naval capabilities are similarly obsolete by 2015 standards; I remember some time ago I heard talk of them essentially converting or building a cargo vessel as a warship?

Romania does have some industries, but basically little money for the military budget. As you mentioned - they are limited in terms of whom they can buy from. So much so that they are even limiting themselves from investing into their own military industries; they are pressured to buy into foreign ones instead.

Heheheh having passed last X-mas in Bucuresti and reconnected with old folks, the only serious resistance would come under the form of 60 yo armed with pitchforks.

Romanian "heavy industries" are reconversions and left overs from you know when. What is most depressing to my commie buddies is that there isn't any plan. Even Dacia the "great success story" is returning very little profit IN Romania. The TR 85 program has been a fiasco and there isn't any hard cash given to the defence and the procurements these last years would make Pasha Mercedes blush in terms of graft.

IE they all agree that since the regime was changed, Romania has been basically whored out. So much for never under foreign thumb BS some were chanting back in 1989.

NB: Most of the said gentlemen have been part of the said whoring.

That was my impression of Romania as well. But it is painted as being more developed than Russia.

kvs wrote:That was my impression of Romania as well.  But it is painted as being more developed than Russia.  

A country poised to lose about 3 million people to all causes within 15 years cannot be "more developed"... Anyway Romania's older generation has substantial issues with A LOT of people around it. From Bulgaria, to Moldova to Hungary. And Inshallah with Ukro-land as soon as Russia won't be seen as its babysitter.

I could care less if Romania takes some land from the Ukraine, honestly. Would give Porkchop over in Kiev, another front to think about.

They should leave Moldova alone though; unless the people there actually vote for annexation - by the polls I've seen the support for that kind of thing is nowhere near high enough.
Pridnestrovie in that case would of course be gone/stranded for good, Gagauzia will split off and the remaining community of Russian-speakers (Russians/Ukrainians/Jews) will siphon-off.
However like I said, that's only a remote possibility for now.

mack8 wrote:Ha, does my useless country (and hopefully at some point to become ex-country) really deserves 3 pages of discussion? Waste of kilobytes really.
Anyway, as for the military, having seen it from the inside, it's just a joke, probably even worse now. Again, i can hardly imagine it being terribly better that the pukes, hell they don't have nowhere near the quantity and quality of gear the pukes have (or had). There was a fairly substantial defence industry in 1990 as probably some of you know, it's product were not really up to date, but at least the capability was there. Today, all of that is practically gone, sold, dismantled, you name it. And that definitely wasn't Russia's hand, but hey, good luck trying to communicate that to zombies.

Gee, I really ask myself for whatever reason on Earth you got banned on every forum you posted your oh so intelligent and exceptionally even-minded comments. Maybe they sent you to take your pills first and post after? Anyway, before ignoring your idiotic rants which is exactly what they deserve, I will say to you that the likes of yourself are just as much despicable as those crazy Americanophiles you were speaking of. You're after all of the same mind and spirit. Good luck with your new country and remember: once a traitor, always a traitor.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Yes and no.

An army con obtain lots of weaponry without spending a ridiculous amount. All depends on type of equipment. Since Romania is in NATO, that cannot happen. But if they were not? Well, JF-17 fighters can be had for cheap and are decent fighters from I hear. Learn to build your own tanks, rifles, manpads, etc. Many equipment can be had for cheap. Azerbaijan doesnt have a huge military budget yet has a very powerful army. Dunno about airforce though. Romania doesnt need massive amounts of frigates but well armed corvettes would do well, and some cheaper diesel electric subs.

A lot of this can be had for cheaper and effective. But once you join some stupid special club of warmongers that has their standards which limit where one can buy from, well, you end up limiting your capabilities.

Romania's naval capabilities are similarly obsolete by 2015 standards; I remember some time ago I heard talk of them essentially converting or building a cargo vessel as a warship?

Romania does have some industries, but basically little money for the military budget. As you mentioned - they are limited in terms of whom they can buy from. So much so that they are even limiting themselves from investing into their own military industries; they are pressured to buy into foreign ones instead.

Heheheh having passed last X-mas in Bucuresti and reconnected with old folks, the only serious resistance would come under the form of 60 yo armed with pitchforks.

Romanian "heavy industries" are reconversions and left overs from you know when. What is most depressing to my commie buddies is that there isn't any plan. Even Dacia the "great success story" is returning very little profit IN Romania. The TR 85 program has been a fiasco and there isn't any hard cash given to the defence and the procurements these last years would make Pasha Mercedes blush in terms of graft.

IE they all agree that since the regime was changed, Romania has been basically whored out. So much for never under foreign thumb BS some were chanting back in 1989.

NB: Most of the said gentlemen have been part of the said whoring.

Do try to build a scenario based on a Martian attack on Dobroiesti, please. Don't forget about sickles, they just have to be used in combination with the pitchforks you mentioned. It's true, Romania's industry was practically obliterated in the last 25 years, the military budget is a joke and the MNE's are mercilessly milking this country to the bone and the bone's marrow. So what? Does that mean that every Romanian should cross hands on chest waiting to die or to hightail across the borders? If that's what you think, then please have a bit of respect for the people still willing to fight for their country and refrain from belittling their efforts. A bit of decency is all that I ask for. I do hope it's not too much. Thank you very much.

flamming_python wrote:I could care less if Romania takes some land from the Ukraine, honestly. Would give Porkchop over in Kiev, another front to think about.

They should leave Moldova alone though; unless the people there actually vote for annexation - by the polls I've seen the support for that kind of thing is nowhere near high enough.
Pridnestrovie in that case would of course be gone/stranded for good, Gagauzia will split off and the remaining community of Russian-speakers (Russians/Ukrainians/Jews) will siphon-off.
However like I said, that's only a remote possibility for now.

Gentlemen, let us calm down. Russia won't attack Romania simply because she doesn't have any reason to. Not even that part of the US ABM shield which apparently is going to be based in Romania, for loads of reasons, the one that I personally like most being that Russia has indeed learned the lesson served by WWI. Romania won't take any lands from anyone, Ukraine and Moldova included. Maybe some parts of the Black Sea continental shelf would be again put in discussion but in a legal framework, of course. And that would be all. The fighting in eastern Ukraine is already more than Europe can bear; however much eager for a fight could be the US (if they are, that is), no sane European country, Central and Eastern Europe included, won't be willing to put itself on fire just because poor Ukraine has lost Crimea and is in danger to get split in half. As long as Russia doesn't directly threaten them (and I suppose she doesn't have any intention to), the US won't be getting any opportunity to use any of these countries as springboard to attack Russia. Everyone will shout and rant, the propaganda machines will run at full speed and curses will fly to and fro; just until the big sharks find a way to divide the small fry among themselves: who's going to get what. That's all, folks.

Intrigado wrote:

flamming_python wrote:I could care less if Romania takes some land from the Ukraine, honestly. Would give Porkchop over in Kiev, another front to think about.

They should leave Moldova alone though; unless the people there actually vote for annexation - by the polls I've seen the support for that kind of thing is nowhere near high enough.
Pridnestrovie in that case would of course be gone/stranded for good, Gagauzia will split off and the remaining community of Russian-speakers (Russians/Ukrainians/Jews) will siphon-off.
However like I said, that's only a remote possibility for now.

Gentlemen, let us calm down. Russia won't attack Romania simply because she doesn't have any reason to. Not even that part of the US ABM shield which apparently is going to be based in Romania, for loads of reasons, the one that I personally like most being that Russia has indeed learned the lesson served by WWI. Romania won't take any lands from anyone, Ukraine and Moldova included. Maybe some parts of the Black Sea continental shelf would be again put in discussion but in a legal framework, of course. And that would be all. The fighting in eastern Ukraine is already more than Europe can bear; however much eager for a fight could be the US (if they are, that is), no sane European country, Central and Eastern Europe included, won't be willing to put itself on fire just because poor Ukraine has lost Crimea and is in danger to get split in half. As long as Russia doesn't directly threaten them (and I suppose she doesn't have any intention to), the US won't be getting any opportunity to use any of these countries as springboard to attack Russia. Everyone will shout and rant, the propaganda machines will run at full speed and curses will fly to and fro; just until the big sharks find a way to divide the small fry among themselves: who's going to get what. That's all, folks.

I hope sanity prevails. I really do. But the amount of propaganda these days is reaching the 1930s level. The good thing is that people are
not satisfied with narratives pushed down their throats and look for alternatives on the internet.

Russia has no reason to be antagonistic to Romania. Historical butthurt is not the current norm in Russia. Russia does booming
trade with Turkey and even Azerbaijan. I wish former Warsaw Pact countries were acting like Hungary, in a cool and level headed way
and were not obsessed with sticking it to Russia like Poland.

Intrigado wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.

To build an army you need money. Ridiculously big amounts of money. This isn't examply something Romania has lots of.

Yes and no.

An army con obtain lots of weaponry without spending a ridiculous amount. All depends on type of equipment. Since Romania is in NATO, that cannot happen. But if they were not? Well, JF-17 fighters can be had for cheap and are decent fighters from I hear. Learn to build your own tanks, rifles, manpads, etc. Many equipment can be had for cheap. Azerbaijan doesnt have a huge military budget yet has a very powerful army. Dunno about airforce though. Romania doesnt need massive amounts of frigates but well armed corvettes would do well, and some cheaper diesel electric subs.

A lot of this can be had for cheaper and effective. But once you join some stupid special club of warmongers that has their standards which limit where one can buy from, well, you end up limiting your capabilities.

Romania's naval capabilities are similarly obsolete by 2015 standards; I remember some time ago I heard talk of them essentially converting or building a cargo vessel as a warship?

Romania does have some industries, but basically little money for the military budget. As you mentioned - they are limited in terms of whom they can buy from. So much so that they are even limiting themselves from investing into their own military industries; they are pressured to buy into foreign ones instead.

Heheheh having passed last X-mas in Bucuresti and reconnected with old folks, the only serious resistance would come under the form of 60 yo armed with pitchforks.

Romanian "heavy industries" are reconversions and left overs from you know when. What is most depressing to my commie buddies is that there isn't any plan. Even Dacia the "great success story" is returning very little profit IN Romania. The TR 85 program has been a fiasco and there isn't any hard cash given to the defence and the procurements these last years would make Pasha Mercedes blush in terms of graft.

IE they all agree that since the regime was changed, Romania has been basically whored out. So much for never under foreign thumb BS some were chanting back in 1989.

NB: Most of the said gentlemen have been part of the said whoring.

Do try to build a scenario based on a Martian attack on Dobroiesti, please. Don't forget about sickles, they just have to be used in combination with the pitchforks you mentioned. It's true, Romania's industry was practically obliterated in the last 25 years, the military budget is a joke and the MNE's are mercilessly milking this country to the bone and the bone's marrow. So what? Does that mean that every Romanian should cross hands on chest waiting to die or to hightail across the borders? If that's what you think, then please have a bit of respect for the people still willing to fight for their country and refrain from belittling their efforts. A bit of decency is all that I ask for. I do hope it's not too much. Thank you very much.

Jesus, this is like trying to jest for the sake of it. In a very informal discussion with former "Regime" guys, mid-range/high range officials, none Securitate, they said it litterally. Romania is a shadow of its former self. IT IS A FACT. You don't like it, they don't like it, I don't like it. Because these guys albeit commies, were nationalistic as hell. I can relate to these people. These guys were the reason, while strolling down in Bucuresti I felt at home. That and the filth and corruption you could breathe and smell on any corner (but that's another issue).

I'm not CALLING FOR AN AGRESSION against Romania. Read again. The state of Romanian military, economy and State is sadly very bad. The demography is even worse, nonwithstanding the exodus. I know that, Albania is in the same damn state (we lost 400K people in two years - for a 3.1/2 million population by 2013). It is a catastrophe on the national level for Albania and for Romania.

There is nothing elese but the truth here. These were and are my friends. These people that New Romania tried actively to jail, kill, humiliate have gotten money, power and insight all these years. As their guest they showed me the hidden part of EuroStat BS. The truth behind the Romanian "miracle";

Chill ain't nobody drive-bying Romania.

Intrigado wrote:

mack8 wrote:Ha, does my useless country (and hopefully at some point to become ex-country) really deserves 3 pages of discussion? Waste of kilobytes really.
Anyway, as for the military, having seen it from the inside, it's just a joke, probably even worse now. Again, i can hardly imagine it being terribly better that the pukes, hell they don't have nowhere near the quantity and quality of gear the pukes have (or had). There was a fairly substantial defence industry in 1990 as probably some of you know, it's product were not really up to date, but at least the capability was there. Today, all of that is practically gone, sold, dismantled, you name it. And that definitely wasn't Russia's hand, but hey, good luck trying to communicate that to zombies.

Gee, I really ask myself for whatever reason on Earth you got banned on every forum you posted your oh so intelligent and exceptionally even-minded comments. Maybe they sent you to take your pills first and post after? Anyway, before ignoring your idiotic rants which is exactly what they deserve, I will say to you that the likes of yourself are just as much despicable as those crazy Americanophiles you were speaking of. You're after all of the same mind and spirit. Good luck with your new country and remember: once a traitor, always a traitor.

You want to explain the red part to me?!
Please do, I really want to hear from a Proper Romanian™, not those traitors that only waste kilobytes, and get banned in patriotic forums.
You know, the kind that need not take pills...

Eagerly awaiting your intelligent analysis.

Regards,
Another member from the Balkans.

flamming_python wrote:Romania's not important enough to be an 'enemy' of Russia. It's simply a country that neither Russia nor Russians - pay much mind to.
Although having said that - Lithuania, Georgia, etc... consistently top or did top the charts of the most unfriendly countries to Russia, so perhaps Romania can fit in there too.

Funny how the peoples most similar to each other are the ones with the most problems with each other. I blame Western divide and rule policies, and fanning the flames of anti-Russian nationalism that has long lost its relevance.

^^ This. At the end of the cold war, the NATO governments managed to buy off the political elite in the former Warsaw Pact countries.  Since that time, those political elites and the various western NGOs have been spending a lot of money on disseminating the paradigm of Russia=eternal enemy of "insert Eastern European Country Name" by various methods (such as artificially inflating negative historical episodes and suppressing the positive ones, making sure the media paints Russia in a negative light, etc...). Most people have their world-view boiled down to short cliches and stereotypes, lack the motivation for critical thinking and independent research, and have a tendency to vehemently and stubbornly defend what they have been taught/told in their youth by seemingly "authoritative" figures. These psychological factors only reinforce the effect of such methods.
Over the years, this subtly alters the perceptions of Russia by the younger generations.

By implementing such policies, western politicians cement their influence over said Eastern European countries while at the same time containing the spread of Russian influence. This is soft-power geopolitics 101 and I would be surprised if they did not resort to such methods.

Needless to say, UK/Germany/France also have a lot of historical bad blood between themselves, yet the citizens of these states are currently coexisting with each other rather amicably. There is no reason to think the same can't be achieved b/w Eastern Europe and Russia. The real question is: how?...

Needless to say, UK/Germany/France also have a lot of historical bad blood between themselves, yet the citizens of these states are currently coexisting with each other rather amicably. There is no reason to think the same can't be achieved b/w Eastern Europe and Russia. The real question is: how?...

In the same manner...The West is using CIA and agents and puts them into those countries governments and wages a propaganda war while US does russophobic propaganda war in all and every single eastern european country. Russia has to destroy those agents, preferebly FSB but that is unlikely to have long term solutions, so they need to provide information and tell those poor bastards that they are slavic people and open their eyes to what the anglo-saxons really think off them and what they are used for as a MEATshield and nothing more. The westernization of all european countries must be stopped, some fear the "islamisation" of europe, no a factual thing is the westernisation of every single sector, political, linguistical and anglification of language and writing, westernisation of jobs, lowering the standards, westernisation of the mind with Russophobic propaganda from Hollywood, adopting the lowest standards possible for education right from the US education system. Here in germany we have already reduced our educational standards to bachelor and master while german engineers have been hired because they were Diplom Engineers now this reputation has fallen with this substandards, they are not special anymore.

Stop at all costs with same methods at all fronts the westernization of our people and european countries and refurbish the traditions and culture and not hollow away into russophobic countries that are SLAVIC without tradition and culture and low and shrinking IQ's.

Werewolf wrote:

Needless to say, UK/Germany/France also have a lot of historical bad blood between themselves, yet the citizens of these states are currently coexisting with each other rather amicably. There is no reason to think the same can't be achieved b/w Eastern Europe and Russia. The real question is: how?...

In the same manner...The West is using CIA and agents and puts them into those countries governments and wages a propaganda war while US does russophobic propaganda war in all and every single eastern european country. Russia has to destroy those agents, preferebly FSB but that is unlikely to have long term solutions, so they need to provide information and tell those poor bastards that they are slavic people and open their eyes to what the anglo-saxons really think off them and what they are used for as a MEATshield and nothing more. The westernization of all european countries must be stopped, some fear the "islamisation" of europe, no a factual thing is the westernisation of every single sector, political, linguistical and anglification of language and writing, westernisation of jobs, lowering the standards, westernisation of the mind with Russophobic propaganda from Hollywood, adopting the lowest standards possible for education right from the US education system. Here in germany we have already reduced our educational standards to bachelor and master while german engineers have been hired because they were Diplom Engineers now this reputation has fallen with this substandards, they are not special anymore.

Stop at all costs with same methods at all fronts the westernization of our people and european countries and refurbish the traditions and culture and not hollow away into russophobic countries that are SLAVIC without tradition and culture and low and shrinking IQ's.

Sometimes you need to take a knee and reflect on your posts.

Destroy foreign agents by FSB? What the hell are you talking about? The best foreign agents are the perceived comfort on the Western Lifestyle. It has nothing to do with evil plots, with hideous quislings or "Slavic brotherhoods". It is simply a relentless, wholly encompassing, specifically thorough hammering of the better life through certain steps.

1. A sense of accountability in these shores. Reality might prove different, but most of the time it doesn't collide with the commoner, so the commoner doesn't care.
2. A sense of political freedom. Truth is again more complex and outright dramatic in some countries (USA for instance) but again the commoner can't perceive it.
3. A sense of economic stability (and/or progress). This is largely beaten in the number, especially deep numbers about productivity and income, but again the commoner is way too burdened by having to keep his job, to even think about starting to call out the disparity. Insert mortgage joke.
4. A sense of novelty and imagination. This is where the whole building is getting weaker and weaker. People are seeing that the "system" is exhausting itself by trying to keep up the appearance. Less voters by the year. More discontent, deeper transformation of the political spectrum etc. Things that were unthinkable a decade ago are becoming the norm in Europe.

Et caetera.

The issue however is that you are tasking Russia with a violent, paternalist policy that SHOULD NOT have any place in Russian politics. Russia is a great country, has enough issues on its own and can make do with idiots scaremongering left and right. At the very last resort Russia can turn the tables and poke fun Ukraine-like or Georgia-like.

On the side note, westernization of Europe? Lol, if by that, you regard the actual standards stemming from a common social-democrat thinking, then by all means we need more of it, not less.

Russia excels in hybrid thinking, has always even in darkest hour of Communism. I don't know why you want to paint Russia like a backwards country full of inbreds, going Old Believer on us all.

Russia is a Paradox, it should stay so for Europe and the rest of the world.

Ill just leave this here.
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150430/1021547516.html#ixzz3Yoy6BmyZ

kvs wrote:

Intrigado wrote:

flamming_python wrote:I could care less if Romania takes some land from the Ukraine, honestly. Would give Porkchop over in Kiev, another front to think about.

They should leave Moldova alone though; unless the people there actually vote for annexation - by the polls I've seen the support for that kind of thing is nowhere near high enough.
Pridnestrovie in that case would of course be gone/stranded for good, Gagauzia will split off and the remaining community of Russian-speakers (Russians/Ukrainians/Jews) will siphon-off.
However like I said, that's only a remote possibility for now.

Gentlemen, let us calm down. Russia won't attack Romania simply because she doesn't have any reason to. Not even that part of the US ABM shield which apparently is going to be based in Romania, for loads of reasons, the one that I personally like most being that Russia has indeed learned the lesson served by WWI. Romania won't take any lands from anyone, Ukraine and Moldova included. Maybe some parts of the Black Sea continental shelf would be again put in discussion but in a legal framework, of course. And that would be all. The fighting in eastern Ukraine is already more than Europe can bear; however much eager for a fight could be the US (if they are, that is), no sane European country, Central and Eastern Europe included, won't be willing to put itself on fire just because poor Ukraine has lost Crimea and is in danger to get split in half. As long as Russia doesn't directly threaten them (and I suppose she doesn't have any intention to), the US won't be getting any opportunity to use any of these countries as springboard to attack Russia. Everyone will shout and rant, the propaganda machines will run at full speed and curses will fly to and fro; just until the big sharks find a way to divide the small fry among themselves: who's going to get what. That's all, folks.

I hope sanity prevails.  I really do.  But the amount of propaganda these days is reaching the 1930s level.   The good thing is that people are
not satisfied with narratives pushed down their throats and look for alternatives on the internet.

Russia has no reason to be antagonistic to Romania.  Historical butthurt is not the current norm in Russia.   Russia does booming
trade with Turkey and even Azerbaijan.   I wish former Warsaw Pact countries were acting like Hungary, in a cool and level headed way
and were not obsessed with sticking it to Russia like Poland.  

Propaganda was never enough to get a country involved in a war. As long as there isn't something solid to gain or there isn't a very explicit threat hanging over its head, no East European country whatsoever will let itself engaged in a real war against anyone. I'll guarantee you that. Poland has a much older and painful history with Russia than Hungary. As does Romania. If Russia doesn't understand that she cannot adorn herself with the Empire or USSR's military victories without also taking responsibilities for their crimes, she shouldn't be surprised of being given the cold shoulder by any country that has ever had the misfortune to neighbor Russia. If Russia doesn't actively seek reconciliation with the Central and Eastern European countries, I'm afraid that the US's dominance over Europe is a given. Countries like mine, or Poland, or the Baltics will do everything in their power to keep the US around and in all earnestness, I cannot blame them.

[quote="macedonian"]

Intrigado wrote:

mack8 wrote:

Gee, I really ask myself for whatever reason on Earth you got banned on every forum you posted your oh so intelligent and exceptionally even-minded comments. Maybe they sent you to take your pills first and post after? Anyway, before ignoring your idiotic rants which is exactly what they deserve, I will say to you that the likes of yourself are just as much despicable as those crazy Americanophiles you were speaking of. You're after all of the same mind and spirit. Good luck with your new country and remember: once a traitor, always a traitor.

You want to explain the red part to me?!
Please do, I really want to hear from a Proper Romanian™, not those traitors that only waste kilobytes, and get banned in patriotic forums.
You know, the kind that need not take pills...

Eagerly awaiting your intelligent analysis.



Regards,
Another member from the Balkans.

Easy enough. Whinging, calling names and slamming the door (or the border, in this case) in your country's face when something is running amiss instead of rolling up sleeves and actually getting some (legal) action is like brushing your teeth. Select a new country, move over there, rinse and repeat.

[quote="KoTeMoRe"][quote="Intrigado"][quote="KoTeMoRe"][quote="flamming_python"][quote="sepheronx"]

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:Ukronazis... If Russia invaded Romania, Romanian army would not stand for more than a week.


Jesus, this is like trying to jest for the sake of it. In a very informal discussion with former "Regime" guys, mid-range/high range officials, none Securitate, they said it litterally. Romania is a shadow of its former self. IT IS A FACT. You don't like it, they don't like it, I don't like it. Because these guys albeit commies, were nationalistic as hell. I can relate to these people. These guys were the reason, while strolling down in Bucuresti I felt at home. That and the filth and corruption you could breathe and smell on any corner (but that's another issue).

I'm not CALLING FOR AN AGRESSION against Romania. Read again. The state of Romanian military, economy and State is sadly very bad. The demography is even worse, nonwithstanding the exodus. I know that, Albania is in the same damn state (we lost 400K people in two years - for a 3.1/2 million population by 2013). It is a catastrophe on the national level for Albania and for Romania.

There is nothing elese but the truth here. These were and are my friends. These people that New Romania tried actively to jail, kill, humiliate have gotten money, power and insight all these years. As their guest they showed me the hidden part of EuroStat BS. The truth behind the Romanian "miracle";

Chill ain't nobody drive-bying Romania.

Well, then it's perfectly understandable. Your friends showed you the EuroStat BS but I suppose they forgot to show you their own BS. 'Cause, to me, Romania's former self meant waiting in line for hours and hours to buy the most basic goods (just imagine the fun I had when after three hours of waiting I was getting nuthin'), attending my classes with my coat and gloves on, sleeping with three sweaters on and fighting for the right to take a shower during the daily hour when the hot water was running. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine entering a shop and finding it completely empty? Did your friends tell you that after the fall of communism, we crossed into the neighboring countries (even into Moldova) and we bought all the food we could carry? Even today the foreigners are wondering why we spend so much on household heating as it's much cooler in their own homes: that's why. Because once upon a time we used to freeze. But of course, some people didn't freeze and didn't starve back then as someone up there loved them. The Party, usually.

So you see, the coin has two sides. You took a stroll through Bucharest and didn't like what you saw? You should've done it before 1990 as to have the opportunity to compare things. I'm not happy with the current state of things. But I was miserable with the previous. I'm not at all surprised to see things dangerously tilting towards foreign economic enslavement: after such regime as was the communist regime in its last 10 years, you get scarred for life. It takes a while to get back our bearings. The good news is that we spent our entire documented existence trying to recover after traumatic events (in the beginning of the nineteenth century all the foreign travelers were weeping at the sight of us and the demography was declining waaay worse than today), so I'm not getting desperate. We'll pull it through somehow.