Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues

Home Latest images Register Log in

You are not connected. Please login or register

+7

KomissarBojanchev

GarryB

Mike E

magnumcromagnon

Firebird

Werewolf

sepheronx

11 posters

Go to page : 1, 2

Move the Capital City

sepheronx: Posts : 8847
Points : 9107
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°1

Move the Capital City

sepheronx Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:30 pm

I have been thinking, and after reading this: http://siberiantimes.com/home/voice-of-siberia/russias-capital-city-should-move-from-moscow-to-siberia/

I tend to agree. Russia's capital should be in the center of the country, and Krasnoyarsk would be perfect. This would in turn heavily develop Siberia, and at the same time, possibly remove Russia's central government from the corruption that plagues Moscow. Add in the fact that with them being central, it could be a lot easier to tie in both the east and west part of Russia, and that no one feels left out, which breeds separatism.

Online

Werewolf: Posts : 5928
Points : 6117
Join date : 2012-10-24

Post n°2

Re: Move the Capital City

Werewolf Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:40 pm

sepheronx wrote:I have been thinking, and after reading this: http://siberiantimes.com/home/voice-of-siberia/russias-capital-city-should-move-from-moscow-to-siberia/

I tend to agree. Russia's capital should be in the center of the country, and Krasnoyarsk would be perfect. This would in turn heavily develop Siberia, and at the same time, possibly remove Russia's central government from the corruption that plagues Moscow. Add in the fact that with them being central, it could be a lot easier to tie in both the east and west part of Russia, and that no one feels left out, which breeds separatism.

That would cause more problems than solutions. The entire Moscow infrastructure is build to protect moscow and the high population. the infrastructure goes also Metro and the 2nd Metro which is part of governmental hotspot for nuclear forces command and PVO. Also the main ABM goes around Moscow which was build over decades and costs a huge amount. And corruption goes always there were the honey is flowing, placing the honey pot into a different location and the parasites will follow. The solution for corruption is extermination of the 5th column. Stalin did a good job on these to vaporize majority of bolshewik scum.

sepheronx: Posts : 8847
Points : 9107
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°3

Re: Move the Capital City

sepheronx Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:46 pm

Werewolf wrote:

sepheronx wrote:I have been thinking, and after reading this: http://siberiantimes.com/home/voice-of-siberia/russias-capital-city-should-move-from-moscow-to-siberia/

I tend to agree. Russia's capital should be in the center of the country, and Krasnoyarsk would be perfect. This would in turn heavily develop Siberia, and at the same time, possibly remove Russia's central government from the corruption that plagues Moscow. Add in the fact that with them being central, it could be a lot easier to tie in both the east and west part of Russia, and that no one feels left out, which breeds separatism.

That would cause more problems than solutions. The entire Moscow infrastructure is build to protect moscow and the high population. the infrastructure goes also Metro and the 2nd Metro which is part of governmental hotspot for nuclear forces command and PVO. Also the main ABM goes around Moscow which was build over decades and costs a huge amount. And corruption goes always there were the honey is flowing, placing the honey pot into a different location and the parasites will follow. The solution for corruption is extermination of the 5th column. Stalin did a good job on these to vaporize majority of bolshewik scum.

But regions like Siberia, after reading a bit, has had the idea of federalization or at least being an autonomous republic within Russia like Chechnya, because of the fact that many view they are forgotten about. Maybe a second capital in Russia then? Keep the old infrastructure in Moscow, but the main federal can move to Siberia.

US is now gonna try and push the separatism idea in Russia hardcore time now, after the whole Ukraine thing. Last thing we want is Russia to fall apart and then the other countries will be next. Russian identity could be gone following that. Siberians, whom are ethnic Russians, are calling themselves something else now. Not all of them, last consensus showed 6000 of them, which is a fair amount. Recently, someone tried to hold a pro separatist event in Novosibirsk, but he was barred from doing it. He is a Russian as well. So there needs to move the capital if they want to keep the areas under guard and not fall under the spell of US pressure.

Online

Werewolf: Posts : 5928
Points : 6117
Join date : 2012-10-24

Post n°4

Re: Move the Capital City

Werewolf Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:59 pm

A 2nd capital is a good idea. Russia should ignore the entire START treaty anyway and start building PVO for every major city equal to Moscows that will also reinforce unity and having little bit more focus on Siberia is what i wished for long time because right now the east behind Ural is rather left out of focus and money spending. So i would totally approve for a 2nd capital in Siberia and countering russophobia and NGO supporteted seperatism.

Online

Firebird: Posts : 1811
Points : 1841
Join date : 2011-10-14

Post n°5

Re: Move the Capital City

Firebird Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:59 pm

I know Siberia is one argument.

In 10 yrs time, maybe Kiev could be capital of the CIS/Eurasian Union. OK it sounds uinthinkable today. But after extensive re-Russification, the Mother City of the Rus MIGHT be a viable.

However, I think Vladivostock is a possible choice. Nice climate, on the sea, excellent harbour, space to expand. And very convenient for China, Japan and much of Asia. There are some interesting articles on RBTH.ru regarding the idea for a multi billion pound Eastern capital. It would require more expenditure than Sochi, perhaps something like a Russian Dubai. But its undoubted, a 3rd eastern capital is very viable.

Some people talk about Yekaterinburg, as its so convenient for the Central Asian states. Plus its handy for Eastern timezones AND Western RUssia.

Other candidates? Irkutsk is good timezone wise. But I think really the best option would be Vladivostock with its port access.

Overall, I think an Eastern capital will be essential over the medium term. The question is whether it should be alongside St P and Moscow. Or stand ahead of them.

magnumcromagnon

magnumcromagnon: Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

Post n°6

Re: Move the Capital City

magnumcromagnon Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:17 pm

Firebird wrote:I know Siberia is one argument.

In 10 yrs time, maybe Kiev could be capital of the CIS/Eurasian Union. OK it sounds uinthinkable today. But after extensive re-Russification, the Mother City of the Rus MIGHT be a viable.

However, I think Vladivostock is a possible choice. Nice climate, on the sea, excellent harbour, space to expand. And very convenient for China, Japan and much of Asia. There are some interesting articles on RBTH.ru regarding the idea for a multi billion pound Eastern capital. It would require more expenditure than Sochi, perhaps something like a Russian Dubai. But its undoubted, a 3rd eastern capital is very viable.

Some people talk about Yekaterinburg, as its so convenient for the Central Asian states. Plus its handy for Eastern timezones AND Western RUssia.

Other candidates? Irkutsk is good timezone wise. But I think really the best option would be Vladivostock with its port access.

Overall, I think an Eastern capital will be essential over the medium term. The question is whether it should be alongside St P and Moscow. Or stand ahead of them.

Well according to Pepe Escobar the Russian govt. is financing a Trans-Siberian fast-rail network that should be finished (if there's no delays, or corruption in involved) by 2018, and now if China can be enticed in to investing than the sky's the limit! There's another route/option too which means involving the Glazyev Plan, by re-nationalizing the Russian national bank they could get loans from the bank equivalent to $10 trillion USD with 0% interest with 50-100 year maturities, but to keep the Rouble from hyper-inflating they also have to re-instate capital and exchange controls. Don't just take my word for it, just look at the Chinese century, they've got both a nationalized central bank as well as capital and exchange controls, and they're economy (according to the World Bank) is virtually the same size as the U.S. economy, and set to surpass them within 1-2 years.

Firebird likes this post

sepheronx: Posts : 8847
Points : 9107
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°7

Re: Move the Capital City

sepheronx Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:24 pm

Maybe 3 capitals in Russia would be best.

1 in Moscow, 1 in Krasnoyarsk and 1 in Vladivostok. Moscow would stay the economic, Krasnoyarsk can become political, and Vladivostok could be law and order capital. This could really fix the majority of issues Russia faces now.

sepheronx: Posts : 8847
Points : 9107
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°8

Re: Move the Capital City

sepheronx Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:26 pm

I wonder, if we can get enough votes from russians themselves, maybe writing a letter to the Russian government may be a good idea? Just to see what their say is?

http://eng.letters.kremlin.ru/

Mike E: Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA

Post n°9

Re: Move the Capital City

Mike E Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:38 pm

sepheronx wrote:Maybe 3 capitals in Russia would be best.

1 in Moscow, 1 in Krasnoyarsk and 1 in Vladivostok. Moscow would stay the economic, Krasnoyarsk can become political, and Vladivostok could be law and order capital. This could really fix the majority of issues Russia faces now.

Hmmmmm. Then Russia could have 3 "capitals" like South Africa!

I don't really get how that would fix the "issues". Care to explain more?

sepheronx: Posts : 8847
Points : 9107
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°10

Re: Move the Capital City

sepheronx Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:42 pm

Mike E wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Maybe 3 capitals in Russia would be best.

1 in Moscow, 1 in Krasnoyarsk and 1 in Vladivostok. Moscow would stay the economic, Krasnoyarsk can become political, and Vladivostok could be law and order capital. This could really fix the majority of issues Russia faces now.

Hmmmmm. Then Russia could have 3 "capitals" like South Africa!

I don't really get how that would fix the "issues". Care to explain more?

More concentration on politics in these regions, and many of the taxation money of the regions where the capitals are or near, will end up in their respective areas, and it can reduce a huge push for separatism or at least any sympothies to it. The #1 complaint that these regions have in wanting to separate, is that the money they generate, which is indeed a lot of it, end up in Moscow and they do not see much of it. If the money ends up in Krasnoyarsk instead, which would be the main sector of the central capital, then many will lose that disdane for Moscow. Moscow on the other hand can handle itself quite easily without that taxation money from the east and what St Pete and Moscow generate will stay in their respective oblast.

Vladivostok seems to be the area where a huge portion of anti corrupt live, so if they were in charge of the nations laws, and where the laws are written and enforced, then they would feel that they are providing their say in the entire nations political system in fighting against corruption.

Mike E: Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA

Post n°11

Re: Move the Capital City

Mike E Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:07 pm

Seems like a good idea then! Thanks for clearing that up.

Online

GarryB: Posts : 40541
Points : 41041
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand

Post n°12

Re: Move the Capital City

GarryB Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:00 am

I remember reading some guy saying they should move the capital city every 5-10 years so that every decade or so a new city will get upgraded communications and infrastructure... but the costs would be horrendous and the value of duplication would be minute.

Why not just appease the people in the far east by increasing funding for development in those areas like they are asking for.

Rather cheaper than building a new capital city.

But if you did want to build a new capital city I would think starting from scratch in the middle of nowhere would allow a better design and structure to be implemented.

Online

Werewolf: Posts : 5928
Points : 6117
Join date : 2012-10-24

Post n°13

Re: Move the Capital City

Werewolf Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:10 am

GarryB wrote:
But if you did want to build a new capital city I would think starting from scratch in the middle of nowhere would allow a better design and structure to be implemented.

And who would have to move to a capital city that is stamped out of nothing? How many people have the money to just move from one location to another especially considering the living costs in siberia are far lower then in St. Petersburg and Moscow and when the regional population from smaller cities would think about moving to the new capital that are rather high amount of money they would need for living compared with their smaller cities, which is on the entire planet the same.

I Also think they need to just invest money into several cities in all oblasts and also start giving those regions and their capitals more focus on several sectors. There are several dozens old ore Mines that are closed since Jelzin the drunk era and by investing money it would create jobs and money for the region also more tax income for the federation to reinvest again in its regions and by that becoming far higher autonomous country and being protected from outside sanctionous aggressions. But sepheronx is right those regions need also political focus so the seperatism that is also mainly driven by US is reduced. For People in Siberia Moscow is not only pretty far away in distance but also from affiliation for people with it. So there is lot of work to do so the people don't feel to distant and foreign from its own country and capital.

sepheronx: Posts : 8847
Points : 9107
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°14

Re: Move the Capital City

sepheronx Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:19 pm

There is roughly 6000 people who self identify as Siberian rather than Russian, but that does not mean they want separatism either, just that they are proud about what region they are from. That is out of 40M population. But they do generate significant wealth which mostly goes to Moscow and rest is underfunded so I can understand their frustration in this, especially since many whom are from there has not even been to Moscow. Closer to China really.

So that is why I think them moving it to krasnoyarsk is a good idea, or building another capital. Maybe PM office and deputy defence ministry should be located there. It could also get Siberians involved in federal politics besides just Shoigu. Or, make Siberia a Republic of Russia so they have more control of their region.

KomissarBojanchev

KomissarBojanchev: Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 27
Location : Varna, Bulgaria

Post n°15

Re: Move the Capital City

KomissarBojanchev Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:58 pm

If the US tries to create separatism in russia it will most likely be either the sami people(major risk from them due to their traditional lifestyle being destroyed and being polluted by russian corporations) or some of the major siberian tribes. Which siberian tribe has the most risk of becoming a second chechnya?

sepheronx: Posts : 8847
Points : 9107
Join date : 2009-08-05
Age : 35
Location : Canada

Post n°16

Re: Move the Capital City

sepheronx Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:14 pm

KomissarBojanchev wrote:If the US tries to create separatism in russia it will most likely be either the sami people(major risk from them due to their traditional lifestyle being destroyed and being polluted by russian corporations) or some of the major siberian tribes. Which siberian tribe has the most risk of becoming a second chechnya?

Nome I imagine as they are all very small in population compared to Russians themselves in the area. But that wont stop some people causing major trouble in the areas for handouts from US NGO's (they should be outright banned imo).

Online

Werewolf: Posts : 5928
Points : 6117
Join date : 2012-10-24

Post n°17

Re: Move the Capital City

Werewolf Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:20 pm

Russia should monitor all bank accounts of all NGOs and if there is even a penny coming from dubious sources as such oligarchs or suspicious "rights watch" aka USAID and their money washing sub organisations the NGOs should be put on trial for civil unrest and promotion of illegal activity and label them for what they are enemy of the state and citizens.

Asf: Posts : 471
Points : 488
Join date : 2014-03-27

Post n°18

Re: Move the Capital City

Asf Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:32 pm

Which siberian tribe has the most risk of becoming a second chechnya?

Lol. None of it. Only siberian russians are aggressive and numerous enough for an uprising

Online

GarryB: Posts : 40541
Points : 41041
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand

Post n°19

Re: Move the Capital City

GarryB Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:31 am

A 2nd capital is a good idea.

Russia is a federation and is already made up of regions that each have a capital and governing entity AFAIK.

And who would have to move to a capital city that is stamped out of nothing?

It will start with the people building the new city, and they will need to eat and be entertained and will have limited places to spend their earnings... haven't you ever played Sim City?

Imagine how much easier it would be to build an underground rail service when you can start from scratch and plan what is to go where both underground and above ground...

Tsavo Lion: Posts : 5960
Points : 5912
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA

Post n°20

Re: Move the Capital City

Tsavo Lion Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:11 pm

However, I think Vladivostok is a possible choice. Nice climate,..

It has bad climate, & is too close to NK/Chinese borders, & is just across the sea from US-dominated/garrisoned Japan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladivostok#Climate

The Peter the Great moved the capital to St. Petersburg, but the Bolsheviks moved it back to Moscow fro better security & defense.
US land invasion of Russia from the West on a scale of 1812 & 1841 is impossible, as they don't have enough reserve & commercial cargo ships to sustain it. Defending a new capital against modern stand-off weapons will be roughly the same even if it was moved to Siberia.
But the only successful invasion of Rus/sia was from the East by the Mongol/Tartars who had Chinese engineers to help with sieges.
Btw the capital in Peking, the "Northern capital", was moved from Nanking, the Southern capital, precisely to defend the Chinese Empire against the nomads. Today, 141M+ Chinese live in just 2 provinces across the border with Russia.
Thus, Moscow must remain the capital; Novosibirsk is the de-facto capital of Siberia, & Khabarovsk of the Far East; Vladivostok is the Russian Shanghai.
Giving them official status above the regional level will only encourage separatism.

Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:01 am; edited 1 time in total

miketheterrible

miketheterrible: Posts : 7383
Points : 7341
Join date : 2016-11-06

Post n°21

Re: Move the Capital City

miketheterrible Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:26 pm

It definitely would give some corrupt people ideas in their heads to run their own fiefdoms if they were given higher status. But majority of the people in these regions are also Russian. Actually statistically there are more Russians vs others in those regions than in Moscow.

Issue is though isn't to do with military advancing but due to political we're the eastern regions feel too far from capital. So moving it towards the Urals may be a good option. Only because it will be closer to center and it would also heavily push the development of these regions to meet demands of the local elites (sad to say).

Tsavo Lion: Posts : 5960
Points : 5912
Join date : 2016-08-15
Location : AZ, USA

Post n°22

Re: Move the Capital City

Tsavo Lion Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:37 pm

Moscow is 3 days by rail from Novosibirsk; Khabarovsk & Vladivostok r 4-4.5 days from it:
http://www.transsib.com/trans-siberian-train-tickets-prices/trans-siberian-timetable.html

By air, those cities r 4, 8, & 8.5 hrs away from Moscow, respectively.
So, Khabarovsk is is farther away from Novosibirsk than that city is from Moscow. Moving the capital half-way across Siberia won't make any difference for the Russian Far East- it'll still be closer to China & Korea. The elites in Moscow won't give up all the amenities & luxuries for Siberian cold/heat, remoteness, poverty & boredom. The leadership will also be farther away from Europe, the ME, the Americas & their vacation spots on the Black Sea, just 2 hrs away by air.
Also, foreign dignitaries will need to travel longer from non-Asian countries to visit it, & flying conditions in Siberia/FE r a lot more dangerous.

miketheterrible

miketheterrible: Posts : 7383
Points : 7341
Join date : 2016-11-06

Post n°23

Re: Move the Capital City

miketheterrible Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:44 pm

ummm, you probably never experienced Krasnoyarsk or Novosibirsk but they are far from poverty. They are actually one of the best cities in Russia and compared much with western part.

Moscow gets about as hot and cold as those two cities do as well. Amenities is only thing that I agree with but that would come with having capital assets moved there.

Krasnoyarsk is called the Vancouver of Siberia (for some obvious reasons but seems odd they chose Vancouver, a bay city area).

George1: Posts : 18519
Points : 19024
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece

Post n°24

Re: Move the Capital City

George1 Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:55 pm

"2nd capital" of Russia is Saint Petersburg and "3rd" is Kazan.

magnumcromagnon

magnumcromagnon: Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

Post n°25

Re: Move the Capital City

magnumcromagnon Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:13 am

George1 wrote:"2nd capital" of Russia is Saint Petersburg and "3rd" is Kazan.

Kazan would probably be 4th or 5th at best, the 3rd capital in the past would of been Volgograd/Stalingrad or Vladivostok, but by 2014 it was definitively Sochi. 1.) Moscow, 2.) St. Petersburg, 3.) Sochi, 4.) Vladivostok, 5.)Volgograd or Kazan.

Sponsored content

Sponsored content

Post n°26

Re: Move the Capital City

Sponsored content

Go to page : 1, 2

Similar topics

» War in North-West Pakistan
» Russian Civil Shipbuilding Sector
» Syrian Civil War: News
» Russian Assault Rifles/Carbines/Machine Guns Thread: #2
» US Overseas Deployments and Bases

Current date/time is Thu Nov 21, 2024 11:31 am