The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

CONFIRMED - #NAF have entered #Debaltseve proper, in force. Cauldron is bubbling #NovoRossiya #Ukraine wrote:

https://twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/565026744541790208

About Kramatorsk.. it looks like another MH-17/Mariupol false flag.. to sabotage the peace process in belarus..
An US state department job.  If you look the next video of the shelling in Kramatorsk it clearly looks was very
random in civilians zones..




The Donetsk authorities told they didn't fire with any weapon at any place in kramatorsk.. it pretty much looks
like another false flag.. to blame the rebels of warcrimes + get more sanctions on Russia + sabotage the peace negotiations.. Win+Win for the Evil Neocons tyranny controlling kiev from the west. Don't forget that there are hundreds of american military advisors in eastern ukraine.. sent by the pentagon..

people should look at military maps and check which armed forces were withing 30km to 50km or even 70km range of kramatorsk city.. and send OSCE observers there.. im afraid false flags attacks will continue non stop ,attack on civilians, the more the rebels advance. This is just a perfect example why is not a good idea for RUssia officially to invade or the Rebels to move far beyond its controlled zones.. Because the CIA terrorist will attack civilians on the cities they control..to pressure Russia and the Rebels to stop their advance. Basically eastern Ukraine ,the zones controlled by kiev are under a major hostage situation..by Pro Kiev forces and they use civilians lives as a weapon for political gains.

Vann7 wrote:Why doesn’t the Ukrainian military participate in Ukrainian attacks?

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/02/why-doesnt-ukrainian-military.html

Because 1) the bosses in White House and Brussel do not give them enough money and 2) not many people are crazy enough to accept a pointless, meaningless death

We can see, thanks to the Glory and the Light of Freedom, Ukrainian Human has evolved into Ukrainian Cyborg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/1901137_432108893607698_8176473883537195660_n.jpg?oh=23b2f09fbf419d40f1b278169377588f&oe=55938E5A&__gda__=1435577997_ae0b52ca59d0d2f51e156b916e9d09e6

This is the closest thing i have seen of a Russian army invasion in Ukraine..



A tank there appears to be T-72b3 and the soldiers definitively are not teens like the border guards
kiev kidnapped , but real strong tall men that appears to be veterans of combat many of them..
I never understood why Kiev so focused in Russian regular army soldiers. they are usually very young weak and inexperienced. The ones they need to be worried are of the veterans retired from the Russian army who have more than a decade in combat experience.. Including fighting NATO forces as was Yugoslavia war. NOthing beats experienced fearless soldiers . NATO lacks of real experience like Russia have , fighting strong armies.. they are used
to easy fights against third world nations where they easily get air superiority , airforce first clean all ,and they later enter with tanks with to finish them.

On another note.. Debaltsevo , inside the cauldron is a very flat large terrain .. not good for anyone to hide
their tanks or artillery. Rebels could get artillery cover as they move inside the city and provide logistics of were to hit
to target the kiev forces.. the way i see it.. is that The artillery of Rebels can hide behind hills but the ukrainians artillery cannot hide. So it apprears that terrain is on the side of the Rebels.. however many civilians are trapped
inside the Devaltsevo city.

https://www.facebook.com/dangVietNam/posts/897204430299713?fref=nf

Translation from Vietnamese to English wrote:Obama: I have told you, dear, you must tell your public propagamedia to advertise for TTIP deals and support your old weapons to Ukraine to counter Russia. But you opposed me. You meet Putin without my approval. How dare you ?
Merkel: I... I am sorry, master. I won't make that mistake again.

===

Again and again, when Merkel did something which displeased the bosses in White House, she was forced to go to the U.S. to meet Obama. For example, last year when Germany actually tried to solve the Ukie problem by peaceful means, the White House summoned Merkel immediately. And Germany changed its opinion after that. From diplomatic solution to hardline sanction against Russia.

This time is similar. After Merkel and Hollande meet Putin in Moskva, the White House again immediate summon Merkel. Germany media claimed that Merkel expressed a very disastified and very tense emotion on the face during the meeting with Obama. That means she was very unhappy and very upset during the meeting.

Clearly, whatever the results of the Merkel-Hollande-Putin meeting is, the White House is very very angry. Probably Merkel has to change her opinion again due to the pressure from U.S. German bloggers claimed that CIA knows some vital secrets about Merkel's private life hence they can quickly change the opinion of Merkel with such an amazing speed.

What will Germany do now ? If Germany cannot disobey the order from Washington DC, Ukraine will surely sufferred from a bloody war which can spread to the nearby regions.

magnumcromagnon wrote:The weasel Surkov will try to make Donbass surrender again.

Well, the current world war is as much a monkey business as the previous one. Unfortunately, this one would be a longer war though.

We are in the Molotov–Ribbentrop phase of the monkey business now.

Can someone unsticky the previous thread.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Can someone unsticky the previous thread.

Only Vlad..

Current situation:


Ukraine says it lost 19 soldiers fighting for the heights south of #Debaltseve.
http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/249846.html

Ukraine: Hostel explosion rocks central Odessa

I think you people are naive to think that Hollande and Merkel are somehow acting independent of Washington's interests.

When Greece started to make noise about moving closer to Russia, it was Germany that weighed on them. When Orban acts disobediently, it is Merkel that visits him and brings her own house in order quickly, shutting any rising divisions with economic pressure.
Merkel acts as an enforcer for the US in Europe. Where the US uses political pressure and the implication of threats, Germany piles on with its own economic weight in support.

Hollande meanwhile, a faceless EU beurocrat that came out of nowhere it seems to win the elections in France, has record low approval ratings in his own country; to a large part because of his relentless persuit of US interests and neo-liberal ideology that he is pressing onto his own country.
France under Hollande was the first to go along with the US in Libya, the first to threaten to bomb Assad and supply the FSA.. it has been marching in step with the US tune - what started under Sarkozy was completed under Hollande.

Merkel and Hollande were joined I believe by Senator John Kerry, on their visit to Kiev together. The next day Merkel and Holland left for Moscow, albeit w/o Kerry joining them.

Do you seriously believe, that Merkel and Hollande, decided to visit Moscow completely of their own accord, the very next day after liasing and negotiating with the Ukrainians right there together with Washington's point man on foreign policy?
Is it not more likely that the US administration didn't think it political expedient for Kerry to join Merkel and Hollande in Moscow and meet with Putin, and that from Washington's point of view - letting them go to Moscow by themselves and play good cop and important statesmen/stateswomen for a day would have been seen as a more acceptable alternative?

Make no mistake, Hollande and Merkel were there pushing Washington's interests. The Minsk peace conference, pushed by them at their meeting with Putin, is an act of neccessity that the US administration has subscribed to ever since Kiev started getting thrashed again, and rhetoric aside - just like Germany and France - Obama is very much hoping for a favourable settlement for himself and his people in Kiev, and avoiding having to carry out his threat to provide weapons to the Kiev putschist government - which even he knows has no hope of succeeding or achieving anything.
Merkel, Hollande and Obama are one when it comes to their discussions in Moscow - it's just that Obama wasn't there in person.

It is true though, that the statesrooms of the Kremlin were some of the few places where Merkel and Hollande, as leaders of important European countries, could afford to be completely frank and honest about their opinions, without having to worry about Washington's snooping ears.
But then with such stooges, what can you expect of them anyway, in terms of thinking independently of the US?

magnumcromagnon wrote:Ukraine: Hostel explosion rocks central Odessa

Who could be behind these attacks? (I think it is probably the US fascists because they don't peace and they want the peace meetings to fail).

What is the latest from Mariupol?

flamming_python wrote:I think you people are naive to think that Hollande and Merkel are somehow acting independent of Washington's interests.

When Greece started to make noise about moving closer to Russia, it was Germany that weighed on them. When Orban acts disobediently, it is Merkel that visits him and brings her own house in order quickly, shutting any rising divisions with economic pressure.
Merkel acts as an enforcer for the US in Europe. Where the US uses political pressure and the implication of threats, Germany piles on with its own economic weight in support.

Hollande meanwhile, a faceless EU beurocrat that came out of nowhere it seems to win the elections in France, has record low approval ratings in his own country; to a large part because of his relentless persuit of US interests and neo-liberal ideology that he is pressing onto his own country.
France under Hollande was the first to go along with the US in Libya, the first to threaten to bomb Assad and supply the FSA.. it has been marching in step with the US tune - what started under Sarkozy was completed under Hollande.

Merkel and Hollande were joined I believe by Senator John Kerry, on their visit to Kiev together. The next day Merkel and Holland left for Moscow, albeit w/o Kerry joining them.

Do you seriously believe, that Merkel and Hollande, decided to visit Moscow completely of their own accord, the very next day after liasing and negotiating with the Ukrainians right there together with Washington's point man on foreign policy?
Is it not more likely that the US administration didn't think it political expedient for Kerry to join Merkel and Hollande in Moscow and meet with Putin, and that from Washington's point of view - letting them go to Moscow by themselves and play good cop and important statesmen/stateswomen for a day would have been seen as a more acceptable alternative?

Make no mistake, Hollande and Merkel were there pushing Washington's interests. The Minsk peace conference, pushed by them at their meeting with Putin, is an act of neccessity that the US administration has subscribed to ever since Kiev started getting thrashed again, and rhetoric aside - just like Germany and France - Obama is very much hoping for a favourable settlement for himself and his people in Kiev, and avoiding having to carry out his threat to provide weapons to the Kiev putschist government - which even he knows has no hope of succeeding or achieving anything.
Merkel, Hollande and Obama are one when it comes to their discussions in Moscow - it's just that Obama wasn't there in person.

It is true though, that the statesrooms of the Kremlin were some of the few places where Merkel and Hollande, as leaders of important European countries, could afford to be completely frank and honest about their opinions, without having to worry about Washington's snooping ears.
But then with such stooges, what can you expect of them anyway, in terms of thinking independently of the US?

Merkel is probably the biggest US stooge and the US is a stooge of Rothschild bankers.

flamming_python wrote:I think you people are naive to think that Hollande and Merkel are somehow acting independent of Washington's interests.

Which member of this forum thinks that France and Germany aren't vassals of USA, which in turn is a vassal of ...?

The "..." doesn't correspond to any of the entities that are popularly associated with being the master of US.

sepheronx wrote:According to zerohedge and rt, a ceasefire has been agreed by putin and co. I really hope not. Cause it will mean the trapped soldiers will be saved to attack east again as Porkyshenko has gone against his words the previous times. Ukraine broke these agreements, hope they suffer for it.

If there is a cease fire, then it is a stupid stupid stupid thing. Those trapped soliders should have been killed a long time ago, now they are just going to regroup and comeback.

Spotted near Ugelgorsk. SA13 Gopher, says Janes expert. Seen with separatist artillery.

https://twitter.com/npwcnn/status/565593325835911169

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:I think you people are naive to think that Hollande and Merkel are somehow acting independent of Washington's interests.

Which member of this forum thinks that France and Germany aren't vassals of USA, which in turn is a vassal of ...?

The "..." doesn't correspond to any of the entities that are popularly associated with being the master of US.

I think calling france and Germany just puppets is an over-simplication of things.. US can put an enormous pressure
on them..essentially turning them in puppets.. but France and Germany also have their interest. Is not in the
interest of mayor european nations and a new world war 3 start.. with them in the front line against Russia.. and USA leading from behind.. Is that so hard to understand?

US gov is not interested to fight RUssia directly.. they want others to do it for them.. Fight Russia to the last Ukrainian citizen and after that use Europeans. American elite simply wants to split Europe from Russia.. and that is not on the interested of anyone but USA.. All said.. Germany and France wants thigns to be solved peacefully.. this is not only told by me.. but Putin himself told that.. That Europe coordinated a cease of fire with RUssia but that USA sabotage it.

So yes Americans Government have many ways to pressure Germany and france into becoming a loyal puppetship.. but if France and germany had to pick between risking sanctions themselves with major unrest in their cities and world war 3 with nuclear weapons.. which option you think they will pick..?

If americans give cruise missiles to kiev using GPS guidance.. and they start launching them against Crimea and Moscow.. how long you think for RUssia to declare war against United States? Obama supplying heavy weapons to kiev ,when its parliament is demanding declaring war on Russia is very serious. A Major Nation security issue for Russia.. and they will respond and fight back.. The politicians in United States are really desperate ,to start a war in Europe before their economy collapse..so France and germany wants to avoid that.. because once the nuclear weapons start falling it will be too late.. for cease of fires.. Ukraine have nothing , absolutely nothing that Europe
needs.. and they will do everything to stop a world war 3 scenario.. even if that means risking becoming target themselves of US retaliations.

Im actually surprised that Europe have not complained before and took them so long to wake up.. Now Germany
is threatening not Russia but Ukraine with sanctions... if they do not cooperate with the minsk agreements.

In my opinion what is happening in Europe is the major slap in the face of the white house .
When a major world war 3 is becoming closer and closer.. in Europe.. not because of Russia ..but because USA
fueling the conflict.. You will see more and more the americans becoming isolated in the world.. and this is amazing news for me.. European nations alone can do nothing.. but united the majority of its nations ,including germany and France they can completely stop the americans actions on Ukraine..and end the conflict. For most the sane Europeans Is far better to face unrest in their own cities by Euromaidans than a world war 3..

take a look what the European Parliament president told recently..

"The US should keep out of the Ukraine conflict"--EU Parliament President Martin Schulz

http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/02/the-us-should-keep-out-of-ukraine.html

When was the last time anyone heard of europe telling americans to turn around and mind in their own business?

This is not a show , or a plan or a trick.. Putin is playing its cards correctly.. always speaking about peace ,while
US have been becoming a Joke its leadership.. not even Europe wants them to lead anything.. but instead to leave.
They are finally awakening even if it is by a little.. NObody in Europe except a couple of radical nations wants a world war 3 to start for a bankrupt nation that is shelling every day civilians women and children..

I do see very BIG possibilities for Russia to become the big winner and US the major losers.. the only card left for
Obama is to try False Flags non stop against civilians in ukraine in hopes that Europe will follow them in isolating
Russia. Time is on the side of RUssia.. and kiev will split in many parts when no longer their citizens are paid and its
economy collapse. So cease of fire and autonomy first makes sense.. is just a temporary thing.. Once Kiev no longer have any money for anything.. it will collapse on its own.. and another euromaidan will happen. and thats when Donetsk and Lugansk will take the rest of their territories without firing a shot.

Yeah. We are in desperate need of geting rid of the useless fossil called NATO.

We also need to diversify our trade away from USA and more in favor of Russia, India, Africa, Brazil and China.

Conserving diplomatic balance between Germany and France is also vital.

Though I am skeptical about the premsie of US collapse. That country has shown a remarkable ability to drag itself out of even the biggest economic mess. There is simply no way for USA to collapse except maybe in a very specific internal scenerio that simply does not exist. Maybe massive migration from Mexico (order of 2-3 mln/year) coupled with total economic disintegration of US would do but current events are not enough.

Vann7, I think you need to calm down.

sepheronx wrote:

Hisroyalhighness wrote:Spotted near Ugelgorsk. SA13 Gopher, says Janes expert. Seen with separatist artillery.

https://twitter.com/npwcnn/status/565593325835911169

Finally, proper air defenses.  More of these would definitely be nice.  Same with more photos of Rebels with Strela's and Iglas.

There's also photographic evidence of Pantsirs allegedly in Donetsk (not Russian Donetsk).

Lothar von Trotha wrote:Yeah. We are in desperate need of geting rid of the useless fossil called NATO.

We also need to diversify our trade away from USA and more in favor of Russia, India, Africa, Brazil and China.

Conserving diplomatic balance between Germany and France is also vital.

Though I am skeptical about the premsie of US collapse. That country has shown a remarkable ability to drag itself out of even the biggest economic mess. There is simply no way for USA to collapse except maybe in a very specific internal scenerio that simply does not exist. Maybe massive migration from Mexico (order of 2-3 mln/year) coupled with total economic disintegration of US would do but current events are not enough.

The reason why USA was so robust so far in her history is because her main opponents where dozens of times smaller. Actually they where not performing miracles but quite the opposite they where consistently under performing. Now they have to face competition of equal size or even bigger.

Btw, way back there was a claim by Poroshenko that they hit a "Russian convoy" and destroyed it.

Looks like it was not completely fantasy. There are photos (dated to the time) on LostArmor that show a trio of burned out MTLB vehicles, likely hit by artillery, on a road. Who was in these vehicles I cannot say, and clearly there was the usual exaggeration, but they hit something.

TR1 wrote:Btw, way back there was a claim by Poroshenko that they hit a "Russian convoy" and destroyed it.

Looks like it was not completely fantasy. There are photos (dated to the time) on LostArmor that show a trio of burned out MTLB vehicles, likely hit by artillery, on a road. Who was in these vehicles I cannot say, and clearly there was the usual exaggeration, but they hit something.

Yeah they destroy a phantom convoy every 3 weeks.