The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

Werewolf wrote:Polish have some kind of suicidal gen or are really that stupid to play meatshield for anglo-saxons struggle for world domination.

They're nothing compared to our lackeys. At least they still keep russian aircraft while our shitheads pledged to destroy our entire fighter fleet to "increase compatibility with our NATO partners"

TR1 wrote:Hahaha.

More projection and butthurt over simple photos. You guys are great .

Take a look.. TR1.. While you continue singing your Freedom loving USA tune...
how your lovely "FReedom" USA does not care about their own citizens abandoned in Yemen..
and Russia needs to rescue them.  



I used to believe that USA was a "democracy" and the government much better than Russia..
but abandoning their own people in a conflict? how can you explain that?  that Even China and pakistan and Somalia could rescue its own citizens but your lovely USA does not consider american citizen lives worthy of anything..  

about Ukraine.. take a look TR1... your lovely nation weapons evidence in Ukraine..

This was in the Donetsk Airport.. they also told there was american mercenaries
killed in the airport.





So what it is TR1?  That United States can arm criminals ,forces pro kiev , to kill indiscriminately bomb civilians women and children but Russia cannot arms the Rebels to avoid a major genocide? Is that is your main Argument imbecile?

Please elaborate why is wrong for RUssia to arm the rebels when your bandera-thugs are being
armed by your lovely freedom nation..?

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2015/01/19/how-did-american-weapons-end-up-at-donetsk-airport/


I don't think anyone here TR1.. claimed Russia is not supplying weapons to the rebels..
What we have been saying is no Russian Army invasion there.. moron. Volunteers are helping
both sides imbecile.. and US and other NATO countries providing weapons too..  Difference here is Russia is helping to saves lives and avoid a major war.. and get both sides to solve things with political dialogue.. (if eastern ukraine collapse ,Crimea will be next)  and USA is trying to provoke a major war in europe and encouraging Kiev to continue solving things by bombing cities ,full of civilians women and children..  Russia does not oppose imbecile that Donetsk and Lugansk continue being part of Ukraine.. they oppose Kiev government hostile and criminal actions against ethnic Russians in Ukraine and their bombing of their cities with civilians ,women and children killed.. refusing to any dialogue..  Russia gave full autonomy to your lovely Chechens and had dialogue with them.. Kiev does not talk to anyone who reject their government. They are actually put in Jail if show any support for Russia. and any journalist who say anything contrary to the government narrative and political opposition killed ,.. all that happens in Ukraine with the full sponsoring of your lovely "freedom and democracy loving ".. USA.

Note how I did not say a single word about the US, but this child keeps going on irrelevant rants.
The butthurt is palpable.

TR1 wrote:Note how I did not say a single word about the US, but this child keeps going on irrelevant rants.
The butthurt is palpable.

No you don't say word.. your actions clearly show you are an imbecile apologist of USA and Kiev..
while at the same time you complain about Russia this ,Russia that.. Why you never post the weapons that USA supply to Ukraine?  Why .. just give me one single fucking reason why always
you post things Russia are or could be doing but never anything that USA are doing? Whats your business with only showing one side of the story ? but not showing what kiev or USA are doing..
Its impossible to NOT find in this forum a discussion about you.. where you complain about Russia government.. but at the same time go and defend USA..     How much your NGO pays you to become a propagandist ?   A visa to visit the "freedom loving nation"?  just come in to the open and say directly what benefits you get for cheerleading USA..  because i cannot imagine
a supposed former Russian citizens doing that without being paid.

Again take a look at this report..

How Did American Weapons End Up at Donetsk Airport?

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2015/01/19/how-did-american-weapons-end-up-at-donetsk-airport/

It will show you why Russia also helps the rebels..

Russia government fully knows your lovely fascist nation USA have their dirty hands
all over Ukraine coup against Yakunovych and war against their own people and that they
always supply weapons to anyone who oppose Russia.. is a Proxy WAR .. as simple as that.. what happens in Ukraine..  American Government have a proxy war in Syria and in Ukraine and in both countries they supply weapons to fight the side that support Russia.  Russia defend civilians while your lovely USA support the criminals and terrorist killing of them.. This is no different to what they did in Georgia.. backed a Russophobic president ,that launched a coward attack against civilian population..  Russia role is purely defensive ,to create conditions for both sides to start a political dialogue.. while USA role is purely Criminal.. to simply provoke
endless war and violence anywhere that it could damage Russia nation security or nation interest.

TR1 wrote:Note how I did not say a single word about the US, but this child keeps going on irrelevant rants.
The butthurt is palpable.

You are just one hypocrite. Russia is a shithole that is what you called it and the West is so much better while reality is exactly the opposite.

nazi government at its peak

Total losses of Ukrainian banks grew by 40 times

Viktor wrote:nazi government at its peak  

Total losses of Ukrainian banks grew by 40 times

According to Natalie Jaresko a US Born American ,with American citizenship, who is now the Finance Minister in kiev.. told recently Ukraine only have 30 days to avoid default.

And Kiev and Europe are pressuring Russia to basically forgive Ukraine debts to RUssia.
and to continue giving natural Gas for ridiculous low price.. While at the same time they are boycotting Russia economy with their sanctions..

Vann7 wrote:

Viktor wrote:nazi government at its peak  

Total losses of Ukrainian banks grew by 40 times

According to Natalie Jaresko a US Born American ,with American citizenship, who is now the Finance Minister in kiev.. told recently Ukraine only have 30 days to avoid default.

And Kiev and Europe are pressuring Russia to basically forgive Ukraine debts to RUssia.
and to continue giving natural Gas for ridiculous low price.. While at the same time they are boycotting Russia economy with their sanctions..  

Dont forget also threatening gazprom.

I think they should tell them to hang.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150423/1021290811.html

Oh look, are they wanting an actual war? Russia should respond by sending people to train DNR guys at border.

sepheronx wrote:http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150423/1021290811.html

Oh look, are they wanting an actual war? Russia should respond by sending people to train DNR guys at border.

no need for that, U.S military incompetence in the field is legendary among any of us that served with them in Iraq/Afghanistan. just wait, should be just a matter of time before the "instructors" suffer "training related deaths" if they really get into "training scenario's".

Airbornewolf wrote:no need for that, U.S military incompetence in the field is legendary among any of us that served with them in Iraq/Afghanistan. just wait, should be just a matter of time before the "instructors" suffer "training related deaths" if they really get into "training scenario's".

Yeah, but I'm not sure about the implications of such an event.
Things are pretty tense at the moment, and I don't want to see them snowballing into a nuclear holocaust.
It's more than obvious (at least it is to me) that the Americans are itching for a fight. Even if they lose said fight, they might drag us all down with them...

Let them have their games. But DNR should have mass amount of men ready so that if these guys did do something stupid, they can capture them and use them as leverage.

macedonian wrote:
Yeah, but I'm not sure about the implications of such an event.
Things are pretty tense at the moment, and I don't want to see them snowballing into a nuclear holocaust.
It's more than obvious (at least it is to me) that the Americans are itching for a fight. Even if they lose said fight, they might drag us all down with them...

The implications of such events are the same as the implications of the same events over the past year.

Not sure if I follow.
They weren't officially involved in Ukraine in the past year, so even if some of their people who were sent undercover did get killed, all they could do is huff and puff.
Not same if they are officially there though.

NOthing will change.. Since the conflict Began.. There is enough info that US military have been
leading ,guiding and training the entire war against Donetsk and Lugansk.. actually the Kiev Generals have been dissappointed with US army tactics ,which of rushing to cut Donetsk from Lugansk , exposing their rear to Russian Army forces on its territory.. And not surprisingly
this costed them a boiler in the southern cauldron with Russia providing intelligence from its side
of the direct location of Ukrainian troops..

The only new thing now is that they are more openly showing their participation in the conflict.
But so far US academi forces have been fighting for months with the Ukies against the Rebels
and many died in the donetsk airport and its weapons captured.. and many of their equipment
captured in Devaltsevo ,that Anti artillery radar of NATO was captured and a humvee.

The only danger i see for the separatist is that US start supplying chemical weapons and or biological weapons.. That will be a major provocation to Russia .. And trigger a major response..
it have been said Poroshenko security no longer id Ukrainian ,he don't trust on his own army..
but provided entirely by Americans.

Us marines protect porky from its own army . A fact . Gugle it .

macedonian wrote:

Airbornewolf wrote:no need for that, U.S military incompetence in the field is legendary among any of us that served with them in Iraq/Afghanistan. just wait, should be just a matter of time before the "instructors" suffer "training related deaths" if they really get into "training scenario's".

Yeah, but I'm not sure about the implications of such an event.
Things are pretty tense at the moment, and I don't want to see them snowballing into a nuclear holocaust.
It's more than obvious (at least it is to me) that the Americans are itching for a fight. Even if they lose said fight, they might drag us all down with them...

im not sure about the implications as well, but i dont think the EU people are willing to let the americans to drag them into an european war when it really comes down to it.
its tense indeed, and this move by the americans is just downright reckless.

the E.U NATO contingent is not prepared at all for confrontation, its hollowed out after its adventures in the middle east. budget cuts, severe ammo shortage, no spare parts and experienced combat personnel is exiting out the door by the truckloads. all those nato exercises and shows is just outright window-dressing. as its all its capable off today. i laughed when i saw the nato response brigades and how the Netherlands and Germans formed one of those corps. what they didnt told is that 30% of the vehicles shown in the media had serious technical defects and those cargo aircraft where all the same ones used for the different "nato response corps". they just took the pictures from either inside the loaded aircraft or from an angle you couldnt see its registy. so....NATO is going to win the war in europe with two C-5's and a handfull of C-17's?. its downright rediculous, if NATO had that logistical capacity they didnt need the civil russian contractors to ferry all NATO crap into afghanistan. at Kandahar airfield i saw like 9 illyushin/Antonov for every 1 C-17 or C-5. and that was 2008 and things just got worse within NATO after that.

i really do not think they tought this trough with sending those american troops so close to eastern ukraine. Ukraine is no part of NATO so when those americans get killed NATO cant enforce Article 5 to send an response force or activate NATO in any form whatsoever. as the country is no full member of NATO. the situation would be the same as Georgia at the time. a lot of huffing an puffing from NATO but in the end the country is left to fight for themselves.

i dont know, i guess we all only can wait and see how it goes. so far there is strong devision within EU NATO itself how to handle Ukraine so it can go all ways.

Czech president: Russia will become EU member in long-term prospect

http://tass.ru/en/world/791278

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150423/1021282892.html

"I have a dream. In the long-term future the Russian Federation will be a member of the European Union. If you do not like it this way, you can think that it is the European Union that joins the Russian Federation," Zeman told Radio Praha.

My oh my, Obama won't like it

higurashihougi wrote:Czech president: Russia will become EU member in long-term prospect

http://tass.ru/en/world/791278

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150423/1021282892.html

"I have a dream. In the long-term future the Russian Federation will be a member of the European Union. If you do not like it this way, you can think that it is the European Union that joins the Russian Federation," Zeman told Radio Praha.

My oh my, Obama won't like it

Milos Zeman is going to end up "committing suicide"

Just another day in kiev..



When Ukraine economy default it will be total chaos.. all cities will be unrest
people trying to steal from stores..and trying to get something to survive..


How can kiev attract any investors with such chaos every where? and this are
not the zones at war..

Vann7 wrote:Just another day in kiev..



When Ukraine economy default it will be total chaos.. all cities will be unrest
people trying to steal from stores..and trying to get something to survive..


How can kiev attract any investors with such chaos every where? and this are
not the zones at war..  

Somalia has almost better conditions.

Speaking of american involvement militarily, did anyone see the video posted on mp.net ofth shelling of debalcevo with the ukie arty spotter on the roof?

I cant find it to hand, so if anyone can repost it would be great.

The key part is the accent of the man who replies to him over the radio, its definitely not ukrainian.

Rodinazombie wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Rodinazombie wrote:you know what?

Even if everyone east and south of kiev had risen against the regime, they still wouldnt have won the war, because there isnt the desire in moscow for that to happen. Putin got what he wanted in crimea and thats all.  Wishing that the civil war would spread to other areas would simply be signing the death warrants of thousands of people for nothing. Putin should have gone in last summer when the ukies started usimg artillery against civilian areas in slavyansk, destroyed the enemy and removed the nutjobs from kiev.

He couldnt have been vilified or 'sanctioned' any further if he had done that than what he is now.

Back to the odessites, I do wish they would rise up and protest against the regime, to show the world how they already feel, but again, theyve already done that and look what happened. Take kharkov last year for example, the marches there were tens of thousands strong. Then the ukies arrested everyone in sight, sbu is busy purging the city and 'uberpatriots' are giving friendly visits yo anyone suspected of being a vatnik. I really cant blame them for doing little, but after a while i start to kinda think they get what they deserve by doing nothing.

One cannot expect to be supported to simply rise and revolt.  It may be nice to obtain assistance but in the end, you may have to go it alone.  A lot will die but there is always a chance, and Kiev has proven countless of times they are almost incapable of fighting.

The question is, with all the people being purged or arrested, what will happen eventually?  People will remember this for quite some time.  Maybe by then Porkyshenko and Ratsenyuk will have stolen what they could and flee.

You are right, unless you stand up for yourself, nobody will do it for you.  

What will happen eventually? Difficult question, i dont subcribe to the view that ukraine is going to keep falling into the abyss, i think they will hit bottom soon and then will start to recover or at worst stagnate for a while. The recovery will take a long time, but i dont see a doomsday scenario for kiev like many wish for.

As for the people, well, if they arent responding to their treatment now, i doubt they will do anything later as and when the situation improves. Though the ones who were actually engaged in violence or murder i think will end up disappearing over the next few years. There will be payback to some extent im sure.

I also think in a few years time yatsenyuk will be living abroad with an arrest warrant out for him back home, with turchinov and possibly poroshenko too.

If the current government and elite is not overthrown; within 10 years all that would be left of the Ukraine is roving bands of techno-barbarians in the Mad Max style.

Yes, the country does have the chance to bottom-out and eventually start recovery - but only if they get conquered by Novorussia, overthrow the current regime themselves and make peace with their own countrymen, or any such variant.
Right now all I see is the continued collapse of the Ukrainian economy, coupled with the steady erosion of Ukrainian statehood too - it won't surprise me if Porko is eventually reduced to a Maskhadov-style figure; having power only in the capital, while the rest of the country is effectively divided up into the fiefdoms of oligarch-barons and Nazi warlords.

Sounds a little fantastical now; but look at all the 'progress' the Ukraine has made in the destruction of its statehood and constitution over the last 18 months. This trend is not reversing; the current government is capable of only taking the decisions that lead to an even worse situation for the country; each and every time - they are fantastically incompetent.

So many times I had to fight the urge to go back on mp.net and simply destroy that Dr. Przewalsky with his selectively picked charts and massaged statistics.
Next times he louds the West Ukraine's economy, someone should just post this chart of Ukrainian salaries by region:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ukrainian_salary_map.png

Another success story of the nazi government

Russia may ban the import of products from Ukraine