S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

That  is just political posturing from Russians to appear relevant in world politics.
Iran and Syria will NOT get any s-300. period.
Everybody can now see trough empty Russian talk.
This is just to get Iran to quit its lawsuit in international court.
Iran ,unless its completely stupid ,should not accept anything else but endure and finish the trial and buy something good for those billions in compensation.
If they accept s-300vm as replacement theyll wait many years for it ,then theyll have to sue them in court again because its a different system ,and the whole thing starts over. It will be the same story.
The Russians are just buying time because of $$$$ theyll have to pay,a very cunning plan.
Theyll lose in court soon and they know it.
Russian broke the contract and will have to pay billions.
Their loud-mouth and western apeasement has finally bite them in the ass.
Proof: both Venecuela and Belarus have got s-300vm and s-300pmu series pretty fast, without a problem.
So iran and syria (who ordered same systems before them) should have gotten them years ago if the Russians were honest in their sales.
I think Iran was very smart to sue them finally.... Nobody ,state or a private person ,want to get tricked, after signing a contract.
Im sure theyll be able to buy some good SAMs from other countries for that much money.

This is called realpolitik. You well know, that Venezuela and Belarus are not under UN sanctions, so they could easily got them as Cyprus, India, China, Vietnam and other clients. On the contrary, Syria and Iran are under UN sanctions, so there are limitations for armament deliveries. Intentions of West to make military intervention in Syria change the situation, that is why Russia slowly deliver bigger complexes as Bastion antiship complexes and used S-300 complexes. Russia know, Iran will be next and they give an offer first with additional Tors and now with S-300VM. To be honest, S-300VM is far more capable than original export S-300PMU1, which Iran order.

Iran and Russia are not allies and they don't have any pacts between them and they are also not enemies. They are neutral to each other and they are more on same side because of common enemy. Russia will defend their own interests and safety first even against UN sanctions if and when it is needed. Russia give Iran better help with helping them to develop and produce their own systems, because home made systems are immune on sanctions.

Austin wrote: Although I think a proper comparision for MEADS would be the Vityaz system as S-400 has far more capability ....probably the closest competitor will be US THAAD system

Oh sweet Jesus . I have no idea where you get such information from . MEADS is heads and shoulders above the S 400.

MEADS has already demonstrated its ability to receive and process Link 16 messages, as well as other elements of threat engagements and target intercept.MEADS battle management software combined with its netted-distributed architecture and plug-and-fight network are extraordinary advancements over the stovepipe systems in use today

To better showcase the capabilities of MEADS, Lockheed is carrying out a “dual-launch” scenario whereby an air-breathing cruise missile and a TBM would be flown against the system nearly simultaneously and 120-deg. apart.This is intended to tax the MEADS surveillance and fire control radars, which are designed to provide 360-deg. of coverage against a classified number of threats simultaneously. The test will include a single fire control unit and two launchers – the addition of the second launcher is intended to add further complexity to the demonstration .

Now tell me when was the last time the S 400 went through such rigorous paces & succeeded .

Link 16 is just NATO standard datalink , Russian SAM have their own data link to integrate with Russian Command and Control System .

S-400 has been tested with 16 BM targets until 2011 according to Almaz-Antei yearly report.

MEADS is more like S-300PMU2 or more like modern Vityaz.

MEADS have far shorter range (PAC-3 missiles), so it is more comparable with Buk-M3.

NickM wrote:

Austin wrote: Although I think a proper comparision for MEADS would be the Vityaz system as S-400 has far more capability ....probably the closest competitor will be US THAAD system

Oh sweet Jesus . I have no idea where you get such information from . MEADS is heads and shoulders above the S 400.

MEADS has already demonstrated its ability to receive and process Link 16 messages, as well as other elements of threat engagements and target intercept.MEADS battle management software combined with its netted-distributed architecture and plug-and-fight network are extraordinary advancements over the stovepipe systems in use today

To better showcase the capabilities of MEADS, Lockheed is carrying out  a “dual-launch” scenario whereby an air-breathing cruise missile and a TBM would be flown against the system nearly simultaneously and 120-deg. apart.This is intended to tax the MEADS surveillance and fire control radars, which are designed to provide 360-deg. of coverage against a classified number of threats simultaneously. The test will include a single fire control unit and two launchers – the addition of the second launcher is intended to add further complexity to the demonstration .

Now tell me when was the last time the S 400 went through such rigorous paces & succeeded .

Welcome to mid 1980 with MEADS.  

Only now you have discovered networking when all Russian AD network stands integrated since 1960ies. 

These target practice that you mentioned are nothing new and is few magnitude in scale smaller than testing done in Russia.

Austin wrote:Link 16 is just NATO standard datalink , Russian SAM have their own data link to integrate with Russian Command and Control System . 

S-400 has been tested with 16 BM targets until 2011 according to Almaz-Antei yearly report. 

MEADS is more like S-300PMU2 or more like modern Vityaz.

Vityaz has better range and carry more missiles than SAMP-T or MEADS but true - those are the systems you can compare. 

Truth to be told, MEADS in its current form just corrects many of the mistakes done with Patriot system. 

S-300PMU2 or S-300V4 or S-400 are bigger league and can not be compared. 

sepheronx wrote:Nebo-U works along side for multiple S-300/400 launch systems.  As well, 1 radar can work with various launch systems.  There is indeed a comm system linking the two of them.  I will admit that the introduction of newer battle management software is indeed ahead of what Russia had, but as time goes on, they develop their own too.  Without having to actually create a whole new system.

1. Many radar systems work along S-300/400 systems and many other systems as well (its is a whole concept beyond understanding of most forum people)
2. Russian command systems are far more advanced than capable than anything west has. 

For instance brigade level command post that coordinates SAM systems integrates and coordinates work of:

- S-400/300 system  (up to 24 shooting radar (batteries) with newest Baikal-1ME)
- Up to two regiment of fighters under its direct control and many other under other command post like Vozdoh-1/Rubezh etc
- One regiment of interceptors
- 2 AWACS 
- ECM / ECCM (SPN-2, SPN-4, Krasuha-2, Krasuha-4 etc)
- independent surveillance systems (Protivnik-G, NEBO-M, NEBO-SVU, GAMA-S1, GAMA-D, Crocodile, Kasta-2 and many other)
- many other SAM system like S-200, S-125, Vityaz, BUK, KUB, Pancir, TOR, Tunguska, Igla etc
- IC, radar, optical and pneumatic decoys are under its command too, GPS jammers etc 
- Passive radar systems (1L122, Kolchuga, Tamara, Ramona, Orion etc)

and many more. 

This structure is not pyramidal nor only redundant. It is designed in a way and with such algorithms like artificial intelligence that if any command post 

gets destroyed whole systems automatically and instantly forms new junction of communication and whole system continues to function like nothing happened. 





It will be interesting to see further Almaz-Antej development in several days

Almaz-Antey to display sea-based air defense systems at MVMS naval show

Viktor wrote:It will be interesting to see further Almaz-Antej development in several days

[url=/EMAIN.ASP]Almaz-Antey to display sea-based air defense systems at MVMS naval show[/url]

This link is asking for a username and password . I suspect that page is empty

I really do not understand who exactly are these guys trying to fool . A capable sea based defense system like the AEGIS employs the cooperative engagement capability (CEC) using sensor-fusion techniques that enable the AEGIS to receive synthesised 3-D battlespace situational awareness inputs in real-time from a wide variety of terrestrial, airborne & space-borne sensors. In addition, the AEGIS can be supplied with 3-D geo-spatial data reqd for targetting inputs for long-range T-LAMs from the global geo-spatial database maintained by the US Navy.

When exactly did Russia achieve all these technological advances that Almaz Antey is talking about a sea based defense ?

The usual packaged rubbish .

None of what you said is particularly advanced or new technology.

Nice try though Nick. 

By that logic the USSR had fighters with data link and ground based and aerial sensor fusion quite some time before NATO did...however could they catch up!

NickM wrote:

Austin wrote: Although I think a proper comparision for MEADS would be the Vityaz system as S-400 has far more capability ....probably the closest competitor will be US THAAD system

Oh sweet Jesus . I have no idea where you get such information from . MEADS is heads and shoulders above the S 400.

MEADS has already demonstrated its ability to receive and process Link 16 messages, as well as other elements of threat engagements and target intercept.MEADS battle management software combined with its netted-distributed architecture and plug-and-fight network are extraordinary advancements over the stovepipe systems in use today

To better showcase the capabilities of MEADS, Lockheed is carrying out  a “dual-launch” scenario whereby an air-breathing cruise missile and a TBM would be flown against the system nearly simultaneously and 120-deg. apart.This is intended to tax the MEADS surveillance and fire control radars, which are designed to provide 360-deg. of coverage against a classified number of threats simultaneously. The test will include a single fire control unit and two launchers – the addition of the second launcher is intended to add further complexity to the demonstration .

Now tell me when was the last time the S 400 went through such rigorous paces & succeeded .

Bahahahaha.

Our LM fanboy strikes again.

None of what you listed is at all impressive.
Wow, networked system! Amazing! Unheard of!

I would bet that S-300/400 series is a FAR more tested product than MEADS.

Is are any VMF ships equipped with  the sigma defence system or is just all sweet talk and no action?

I really do not understand who exactly are these guys trying to fool . A capable sea based defense system like the AEGIS employs the cooperative engagement capability (CEC) using sensor-fusion techniques that enable the AEGIS to receive synthesised 3-D battlespace situational awareness inputs in real-time from a wide variety of terrestrial, airborne & space-borne sensors. In addition, the AEGIS can be supplied with 3-D geo-spatial data reqd for targetting inputs for long-range T-LAMs from the global geo-spatial database maintained by the US Navy.

When exactly did Russia achieve all these technological advances that Almaz Antey is talking about a sea based defense ?

The usual packaged rubbish

The thing is that AEGIS has supposedly had that capability since it entered service yet it managed to confuse an Iranian AF F-14 sitting on an airfield runway with an ascending Airbus on a civilian flight path and thought it was under attack and ended up murdering about 280 people.

They gave the commander of the vessel a medal for his heroism... which was made more interesting because the missile that shot down the airbus was fired from within Iranian waters...

Is are any VMF ships equipped with  the sigma defence system or is just all sweet talk and no action?

AFAIK it is the standard upgrade and new build vessel electronics system so vessels built in the 90s and later all had it along with all new vessels including down to corvette size.

2016 is the year

The development of the air defense system S-500 will be completed in 2016


Moscow. June 27. INTERFAX.RU-mass supply to the troops advanced weapons and equipment will begin in 2016, the chief of the General Staff of the Russian Army Valery Gerasimov.

"For this to be completed in 2015 to develop a new tank, infantry fighting vehicles and armored combat vehicles in 2016 - a promising aviation complex, anti-aircraft missile system S-500 and the corvette, in 2018 - a new generation of destroyers," - said in . Gerasimov at the session of the Russian Defense Ministry in Moscow on Thursday.

He said the work on the creation of these weapons "is currently running without disruption."

LINK

This is the document since its in Russian can any one who can read make sense out of it ?

http://mil.ru/mod_activity_plan/doc.htm

Austin wrote:This is the document since its in Russian can any one who can read  make sense out of it ?

http://mil.ru/mod_activity_plan/doc.htm

Maybe I missed it, but I can't see anything specific on the S-500 there.

Viktor's link states that the development of the S-500 to be completed in 2016 which doesn't have to mean it will enter service that year. 2017 more likely.

SOC development completed means in Russian lingo State Testing Completed and ready for mass production. Atleast this is what I concluded in many years of following them.

Can you link Mindstorm post may be i missed it.

That looks like 9M96 more slimmer or just my eyes. Looks like a 2 stage missile , I think this missile would be highly manouverable so they dont want to carry the dead body along of booster.

Looking at it the 2nd stage Missile is controlled by small wings and TVC , The second stage also does not look cylindrical but has a broader lower end and tapering out to top some what cylindrical and conical.

Its very hard to see the radar in the background and figure out if its AESA or a PESA.

Nice. Overall 6st regiment.

I think one more might emerge during this year (2 regiments per year is a standard until 2015)

Third Regiment of the C-400 went on duty in Moscow before the end of the year

Apparently (Moscow Region), June 29 - RIA Novosti. Another anti-aircraft missile regiment troops EKR, equipped with the latest anti-aircraft missile systems (ADMS) S-400 "Triumph" to intercede on combat duty in the Moscow region until the end of 2013.

"In accordance with the progress of the troops re-SAI third anti-aircraft missile regiment armed with S-400, to the end of 2013 to intercede on combat duty in the Moscow region", - told reporters the official representative of the press service of the Defense Ministry and information on ASD Troops Colonel Dmitry Zenin in celebration of the 60th anniversary of the 5th Brigade Air Defense Forces ASD.

According to him, currently in service with connections Defense Command Air and Missile Defense Forces ASD are anti-aircraft missile system S-400 "Triumph" C-300 "Favorite" anti-aircraft missile complexes cannon "Shell-S", radar systems and radar with a detection range of air targets up to 600 km and altitude of 40 km.

LINK

Defense: the air defense system S-500 will exceed their foreign counterparts

Moscow. September 5. INTERFAX.RU - The newest anti-aircraft missile system S-500, which is created for the benefit of air-space defense, tactical and technical characteristics surpass U.S. counterparts, "Interfax" Commander Colonel-General SAI Oleg Ostapenko.

According to him, the work on the S-500 is on schedule and will be completed before 2020.

He noted that the C-500 will be better than any American counterpart.

Interview Yuri Sin commander of the Air Defense Forces Air Space Defense
http://echo.msk.ru/programs/voensovet/1104718-echo/

S. Buntman: Yes.

Yu Sin retooled in several directions. The first task - in 2012 we received the latest automated system "Baikal 1-M". This is a step forward in the management system, first of all. In addition one of the regiments was set "S-400", had shot perfectly well at the site this year. So, specifications, claimed the military industrialists fully realized set of "S-400". That is to say, he got a perfect score. In addition, we were armed with my connection to the anti-aircraft missile and gun system "Armour 1C" is also quite modern weapons. We have something to compare. Compare with the air defense systems of this class of foreign countries. This "Crotal", "Rapier", practically all the characteristics, excess in our favor at 2-3. And on rate of fire, and possibly detect the target and destroy. Well, for comparison, the far edge affected area in our complex - 20 kilometers. Upper - 15. An appropriate set of "Crotal" and "Rapier" in the 2 - 2.5 times its characteristics are inferior. Just inferior to the amount of target channels.

A. Ermolina: This is the maximum effective range of your purpose?

Yu SINS: Given the complex, if we are talking about a complex "C-400", the 400 km distant border zone lesions corresponding to the rocket. And 600 km far edge detection. And the lower boundary of the affected area, that is the minimum height at which strays goal - to 5 meters. For comparison, the "Patriot" 60 meters. That is, there is nothing to compare. The same applies to the number of channels we target significantly surpass.

A. Ermolina: And what purposes such complexes can work? Well, the plane is understandable, perhaps, the most vulnerable target for you. And if it's a cruise missile? Well, just the ones that are at a height of 5 meters (inaudible).

S. Buntman: (Inaudible) relief, yes.

Yu SINS: I see. So we are working on the aircraft. Our anti-aircraft missile complex "C-400", for unmanned aerial vehicles at hypersonic aircraft for tactical and operational-tactical missiles. This is the last - the most important thing. Tactical and operational-tactical missile. That is, at a distance of 60 km, operational-tactical, tactical missile knocks.

A. Ermolina: When will the "S-500" does not fall under the prohibition of hitting the target in outer space? Because it is virtually depth such that already ...

Yu SINS: The question is probably not for me, but the complex is advanced, it really covers not only the air space, but space. Problems were placed, we will fulfill them.

Austin wrote:

A. Ermolina: This is the maximum effective range of your purpose?

Yu SINS: Given the complex, if we are talking about a complex "C-400", the 400 km distant border zone lesions corresponding to the rocket. And 600 km far edge detection. And the lower boundary of the affected area, that is the minimum height at which strays goal - to 5 meters. For comparison, the "Patriot" 60 meters. That is, there is nothing to compare. The same applies to the number of channels we target significantly surpass.

Now this is what I have suspected and said before. While export variant of S-400 will have 6 guidance channels per engagement radar as advertised

(2 missiles per target for total of 6 targets (12 missiles)), Russian version has much higher guidance channels per engagement radar

(I think 10 or perhaps even 12) and that is just one of the reasons Russian PVO generals are happy with new the system.

Still (considering export variant) for a full regiment of 8 batteries that means that you can guide 96 missiles at 48 targets all at once.

Pretty brutal thing to construct


Yuri Sin gives great emphasis on the introduction of Baikal-1M in the Russian Army. This is makes a world of difference in comparison with older Russian command

posts and ability to make and control AD network.

S-400 factory

Nice picture of 55K6 regimental command post



and many others in HQ

LINK

Viktor wrote:Nice picture of 55K6 regimental command post



and many others in HQ

LINK

Nice pictures. New complexes are not much behind in ergonomics comparing to western ones with using modern technology and LCD screens.

Functionality & Ruggedness over Eye Candy looks has been a forete of Russian systems ....If they put a Samung 21 inch LED/LCD over there it would look more Eye Candy and western like but I believe these system are designed to be rugged over long land travel on semi-roads etc.

medo wrote:

Viktor wrote:Nice picture of 55K6 regimental command post


and many others in HQ

LINK

Nice pictures. New complexes are not much behind in ergonomics comparing to western ones with using modern technology and LCD screens.

You gotta be kidding me ,this is the top notch best tech Russia has???        
I was expecting something more like holographic 3D/4D volume displays ,shallower keyboards ,ergonomic switches and twice as large high resolution high definition LCDs with touch screen and direct commands.
Basically everything that enhances situational awareness and reaction time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnmU2NomIiQ
...
I m shocked trully ,i have better stuff at my home ,then a some multi billion strategic national defence system of Russia.... 
Ill help just send me radar data on my screens and ill give you much better information. 
Lol at Russia is this the best they can do???
Im dissapointed . Really