Opinions on Socialism/Communism

Notice that in the supreme leader antourage noone likes to be second in chief. When things go too ugly even for those that are second after the boss they leave the supreme leader alone. Same mechanism will be in smaller groups formed after the fall of supreme leader. Cause everyone has a limit at wich they support dictatorship.

GarryB wrote:Everyone supports a dictatorship when everything is going OK and the economy is good.

That applies to every imaginable form of government.

GarryB wrote:Everyone supports a dictatorship when everything is going OK and the economy is good.

Well yes. That is why i ask myself why people steal things in communism when they experience communism at start. Is the nature of human. Better said communists are truly visionary.

The problem is like this: those who know to make money dont want to share their fortune whit poor. Because of this they always betraye communism. But....when money are equally spent to everybody all people have a chance to evolve so productivity in yhe future rise. One thing is that only few people evolve and go to universe other is that all go in the same time. If all go there is higher chance to resist to unknown. Also some studyes should be made upon productivity increase when all people have same amount of money. After all when all have the posibility to evolve they all work. That means all produce so produce lots of yhings compared to few that produce. At start everything is equal but noone should not upset because the rise will be big in near future.

More money per capita is mean a lot of personal experiences and evolve posibilities. Now some efficinecy and work distribution study should be made when all people are employed. My opinion is that at start comunism produce less than capitalism but when all are hired all have a oportunity to become better. And becoming better means production get better. And because is a closed money sistem no money is lost. But all come back to state who make logic distribution. As a matter of fact should be a law that anyone is forced to spend money not keep them. So things are buy and money go back to factoryes even if a employee is unskilled.

Putin explains his remarks about Vladimir Lenin

Putin said Lenin had "planted an atom bomb under the building called Russia and that bomb went off a while later"

STAVROPOL, January 25. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin has explained why he believes that Vladimir Lenin was the one who had planted a powerful bomb under the basement of the country’s statehood.

Speaking at an inter-regional forum of the All-Russia People’s Front Putin recalled that Lenin had a fundamental discussion with Stalin over the principles a future state should rest upon. Stalin’s ideas were rejected and the country was built on ideas implying the possibility of secession of constituent territories. "That right [to secession] was the delayed action mine planted under our statehood. This is what caused the country’s eventual breakup," Putin said.

Earlier, Putin at a meeting of the presidential council on science and education dropped a rather caustic remark addressed to Lenin. He said Lenin had "planted an atom bomb under the building called Russia and that bomb went off a while later."

Putin said that he himself had been a member of the Communist Party and an officer of the Soviet security service, the KGB, which some propagandists used to refer to as an armed outpost of the Communist Party. He said he had joined the Communist party not because it was a must.

"I cannot say that I was a hardline advocate of the Communist ideology," he said. "Yet my attitude to all this was very delicate," Putin recalled, adding he had never been a career party functionary, but just a rank-and-file member. "In contrast to many functionaries I did not throw my membership card away or burn it in public. I still keep it at home."

Putin acknowledged that he liked Communist and Socialist ideas "very much" and that he still liked them. What senior citizens still remember as the Moral Code of the Builder of Communism (a set of codified moral rules every Communist Party member in the Soviet Union was supposed to follow) looked very much like the Bible in terms of ideological content, but "the practical embodiment of these wonderful ideas in our country was very far from what the Utopian socialists had proclaimed."

Putin recalled the murder of the royal family, priests and even servants of the royal family.

"Why did they kill Dr. Botkin, why did they kill the servants, people of proletarian origin by and large? What for? Just for the sake of concealing a crime," Putin said. He also recalled the role of the Communist Party in World War I, when Russia as a result of power struggle "lost to the loser country."

Putin was critical of the Soviet Union’s economic policies. At the same time he recognized that the planned economy managed to mobilize resources and address problems in the health service, in education and in the defense industry.

He called for studying history without painting it white or black.

"It should be studied carefully and analyzed objectively so as to avoid mistakes that were made in the past," he said.

More:
http://tass.ru/en/politics/852069

higurashihougi wrote:Response from the Communists

https://www.rt.com/politics/330126-putin-lenin-atomic-bomb/

Russia’s Communist party has warned President Vladimir Putin that they “won’t forgive” him for comments he made concerning Bolshevik leader Vladimir Lenin’s concept of the Soviet state, comparing it to an “atomic bomb planted under Russia.”

On the contrary he said he likes communist and socialist ideas

Ukraine is pissing its pants now cause Putin's statement would indicate that the borders of Ukraine now is a total monstrosity.

http://seansrussiablog.org/2016/03/29/us-and-stalinist-prison-populations-revisited/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAWktuDM8XQ

OUCH!

I find it amazing how some morons celebrate this idiotic bus driver here.

When i was in school like 4 or 5 years ago we had a exchange studend from Caracas in class. Back then Venezuela was already in bad shape and now is simply a failed state.

People have no food, crime rates are gigantic. 2 million people have already run away.





While his people starve...the fat bus driver knows how to dine...with class and style in a capitalist instagram food temple:



Communism at its best.

Venezuela...one of the oil richest countries in the world...cant pump up oil, because nationalized oil companies dont have the knowledge to keep the plants running.

Even better...Venezuela...a country with perfect climate and perfect soils cant grow even sugar cane. Why? because the fields got nationalized and the socialists in charge have no clue about agriculture. So the felds rott away.

But what do i say? You guys stand with evry fucked up commie scum. Be it Maduro, Kim Jong Un or even Mugabe.

higurashihougi wrote:

Aristide wrote:When i was in school like 4 or 5 years ago we had a exchange studend from Caracas in class. Back then Venezuela was already in bad shape and now is simply a failed state.

Venezuela's economy already had serious problem long before Chaves and Maduro. The "capitalist" government only cared about selling oils and when oil price collapsed, Vene's economy suffered terribly.

Aristide wrote:People have no food

May be because they purchase cheap food from the government and illegally sell to Colombia at high price.

May be the government should increase food price instead of maintaining the low-price policy for food because the many people expoit the government's kindness too much.

Aristide wrote:Communism at its best.

Venezuela is not communism.

The Venezuelan Communist Party is a separated party and in many instance they criticized PSUV's policies, especially in the issues of trade unions and labour.

The Fifth Republic Movement only removed foreign-based capitalists and core heavy industries. Remaining domestic businessman and rich landowners were left intact.

Venezuela has one of the highest levels of land concentration in Latin America. If it was truly communism, a complete land redistribution should have been occured. But still, the government does not want to do things in the hard way... the rich landowners are still there to join the opposition.

Aristide wrote:Even better...Venezuela...a country with perfect climate and perfect soils cant grow even sugar cane. Why? because the fields got nationalized and the socialists in charge have no clue about agriculture. So the felds rott away.

Venezuelan agriculture was in bad shape already in the mid 19xx. But you people just put all the blame to Chavez.

Aristide wrote:But what do i say? You guys stand with evry fucked up commie scum. Be it Maduro, Kim Jong Un or even Mugabe.

North Korea managed to launch its own domestic satellite.

South Korea tried to do the same thing, and failed.

North Korea cant feed its own people.

Why did NK launch a satellite? Its country is dark at night from space.

Dude you are one sick psycho



But its normal for communism and socialism. Those countries always fail and end in poverty.

The good thing is, Northkoreans can always see their tiny satellite at night. No streetlight blocks their view, they live in eternal darkness,

China seems to be rapidly growing in wealth and power under communism...

Don't confuse "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" under the CCP rule & Soviet "Advanced Socialism" with the Communism that Mao & Chruchev were trying to build.
Socialists were in power in France twice, but they didn't ditch Capitalism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Party_(France)

Ideologies, like religions, evolve & borrow from each other along with the societies that beget them.
Venezuela has the same problem as Libya & Iraq: lots of oil under the ground & dictatorship above it to resist colonization; desert & jungle, w/o enough fertile soil for large scale agriculture to feed its population with local produce.
It will be a miracle if Maduro stays in power for much longer: Chile wasn't allowed its own path, not to mention a few other "banana republics" to the North.

GarryB wrote:Don't worry about the ignorant inbred Frog here Higura... the narcissistic self focussed westerners think any country with problems must be due to communism... Venezuela has never been communist and has more free and more open and more fair elections than the US does.... it is the rich 1% and their buddies in the west that help ensure such countries remain poor and broken, because it enables them to steal from the majority and keep their positions of wealth and power well beyond the real needs of any human.

China seems to be rapidly growing in wealth and power under communism... the difference between a sucessful communist state like China and a poor unsuccessful one like NK or Cuba, was the western treatment of those countries... the west treated China almost as a partner in its conflict against what it perceived as a bigger threat in the Soviet Union, and China was able to grow and develop... still a lot of work needs to be done but it is in very healthy shape for a commie country.

In comparison North Korea and Cuba have struggled because of western active belligerence and sanctions and isolation.

They can, however take heart that there is a possible future where they might not be treated that way...

The West tried the same isolation and sanctions on the Soviet Union and it really wasn't 100% successful because the Soviets were too big and too powerful to fully isolate and there were enough countries around the world that also didn't bend over and take it from the US, which meant the Soviets were never totally isolated.

The west recognised potential for cooperation between China and the Soviets and turned the Chinese against the Soviets, but now it has backfired because in terms of economics the Soviets were not really likely to ever challenge the west totally like the chinese are today... as is mentioned a lot... they simply don't have the population.

But now the Chinese are becoming a threat and some, like Henry Kissinger are suggesting using Russia against China but Putin is not an idiot... so America is trying to use India... India should notice that all these years the US has supported Pakistan against them... so I hope they recognise what is happening... use the US but don't actually trust them for anything.

The point is that when the US self destructs it will merely be one powerful military force amongst several powerful military forces and no longer able to dictate to countries like it has in the past.

For smaller countries it means more options than just either joining the west or choosing isolation.

Shame really that the EU are so in line with what Washington tells them that they likely will take decades to become a real independent pole in the new multipolar world... India will probably take a place and the adults table before the EU does....

How exactly am i inbred? You are the island monkey with the limited genetic pool.

Its morons like you who blame always the west. So its the wests fault that Venezuelans are lazy and rather stupid dummies, incapable to run a normal country?

China doesnt grow under communism. China went poor under communism. China developed when it threw communism under the bus and became hypercapitalist.

China today follows the most extreme form of capitalism we see in the entire world. Workers rights means nothing for them. China throws evrything under the bus for profits.

NK suffers because it has a batshit crazy leadership. Cuba suffers because its a shithole country.

Also whats your problem with freedom? We have the right to decide who we trade with and who we dont trade with.

We do trade with Cuba. We dont trade with NK and Venezuela. We sanction the shit out of them and we can freely decide to do so.

Also we have different value systems. Did you ever visit India? Its a shithole.

Remember when two italian marines killed indian fishermen? India wanted play tough and arrested them. But was too afraid so housed them both in a luxury hotel during their arrest. And India was scared of Italy.

Italy pulled the entire EU into this. We blocked indias membership in international cooperations, blocked trade agreements and pushed them to the point where both returned.

The EU is the worlds greatest economic power. So far we even put Trump in his place.

North Korea in fact had a relatively high living standard before 1991.
Cuba's GDP per capita in both nominal and PPP is actually quite high.
Aristide wrote:
The EU is the worlds greatest economic power.
Tell that to China or America... probably they won't bother to answer.

NK had crop failures from floods & droughts + sanctions that contributed to famine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_famine#Causes

Earlier, its agriculture,etc. were almost completely destroyed by US bombing of dams. https://apjjf.org/-Charles-K.-Armstrong/3460/article.html

Despite the US sanctions/economic blockade & the past US Mafia rule, the infant mortality in Cuba is lower than in the USA.
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jan/31/tom-harkin/sen-tom-harkin-says-cuba-has-lower-child-mortality/

China uses capitalism to regain its status as a great power with the help of Soviet style central economic/social planning to implement it. That's what the "Socialism with Chinese characteristics" is.
India is a mix of socialist capitalist systems. It has too many religions, races, ethnic groups, languages, & writing systems.
And yet, in almost every nation but India, democracy followed capitalism. In country after country in Europe, voting rights were gradually extended over the past 150 years. That process slowly altered existing capitalist institutions and practices.
Not so in India. There, we had the right to vote well before capitalist institutions developed.
This unique reversal explains a great deal about Indian society today, including the failures in governance and the painfully slow pace of economic reforms. ..
In India, on the other hand, democratic institutions came up well before we had the chance to create an industrial revolution. Even today, over 60% of our people continue live in rural areas, organized labor constitutes less than 10% of total labor.
And the middle class, despite tripling over the last two decades, constitutes less than 20% of the population.
Because of the unique historical reversal in India, populist pressures for redistributing the pie essentially built up before it was baked. Yes, we set up intricate regulatory networks — but we did so before the private economy had transformed a rural into an industrial society. We began to think in terms of 'welfare' before there were welfare-generating jobs.
The result, for India has been throttling of enterprise, slow growth, missed opportunities, huge subsidies and a rapacious bureaucracy. It is the price we have paid for having democracy before capitalism — or rather too much democracy and not enough capitalism.
These institutions do not just happen — they take time to develop. Thus, reform is not an easy path. Experience around the world over the last two decades teaches us that markets generate perverse results in the absence of good regulatory institutions.
https://www.theglobalist.com/democracy-and-capitalism-in-india/

So, the British & French colonizers can be blamed for stifling India's development, which resulted in its present condition. W/o colonization, there would be several states in its place with higher standard of living. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mDsa-AqNcQ

If the EU is so powerful, the UK wouldn't be leaving it!

Venezuela's Opposition-Run Congress Declares Maduro a Usurper,
asks foreign countries to freeze Maduro-linked accounts

On Tuesday, it was reported that US President Donald Trump is considering recognising the head of the opposition-run National Assembly as Venezuela’s legitimate leader. Washington is also said to be mulling a full oil embargo and even military intervention.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/gold-trade-booms-venezuela-eyes-stronger-turkey-ties-190117084423511.html
https://ahvalnews.com/venezuela-turkey/turkey-repeating-iran-sanction-busting-scheme-venezuela-ex-diplomat#

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/01/17/america-has-its-gunsights-venezuela

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-brazil-argentina/brazil-argentina-step-up-pressure-on-venezuelas-maduro-idUSKCN1PA23T

https://www.rt.com/business/449011-venezuela-oil-exports-sanctions/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/pirates-of-the-caribbean-how-venezuelas-near-collapse-is-causing-a-crisis-on-the-seas/

Some good points, higurashihougi and Tsavo Lion. Aristide, I haven't been reading your recent posts because I don't follow the "General Discussion" section of the forum regularly, but I overall see where you're coming from and I respect (some of) your views, just sayin'.  

It's indeed very debatable whether China is "capitalist" or "socialist". It's IMO neither, and in any case the whole issue is kind of irrelevant. China is successful due to its meritocratic government that focuses on development, an economic system that is "capitalistic" enough, and because it has a very high quality population. What is India's problem? It's developing well at the moment, but India's "population quality" is not particularly high on average. Simple stuff.  

China was already poor before communism, actually you have to give some credit to Mao, objectively speaking. It was probably inevitable, as was China rapid development, but Mao re-unified the country.

When it comes to "workers rights," China's industrial wages and overall living standards are already modestly higher than the global average. Salaries have been growing extremely rapidly for decades, and so is robotization.

Make no mistake, I have no particular sympathy for Venezuela, nor for many/most other anti-American "shitholes" that most of these leftist, 'anti-imperialist,' "hur dur everything's a Zionist lizard people conspiracy" Russophiles fanboy over. Only interests and power matters. If Russia (and China) can use Venezuela to troll Uncle Sam even a little bit in its own backyard, that's fine by me.

That said, it's obvious that the Venezuelan government can mostly only blame itself. I'm not an expert on Venezuela or its economy, but the fact is that it was reasonably well-off overall 10 years ago, so the current situation is quite of an achievement. In addition to the oil price collapse, some other things must have gone VERY wrong internally as well.    

The EU is weak as shit. It's not a unified power, and due to that, not the "worlds' greatest" anything, when it comes to influence. China is already 30% larger in PPP GDP, just so you know. I'm a Western European, and I'd like to believe you, but it's all bullshit. The EU should have never gone against Russia during the Ukrainian crisis. A proper balancing alliance against the US should have been created back in the 1990s, but Europe just decided to be a collection of insignificant American vassals. For example, now Europeans lack their own Google, Baidu or Yandex, sums up everything really. Those cucks would be in love with POTUS Hillary...

You were supposed to a French nationalist anyway, right? So what's going on? EU is the very symbol of "globalism" and anti-nationalism. But, uhh... whatever.

It's also worth recalling how Panama's Noriega was used & then discarded under the pretext of (non-CIA sponsored) drug smuggling; the same excuse is now starting to be used against the Maduro regime.
The less competition, more $ can be made by the CIA in the drug trade. The writing is on the wall: MERCOSUR members with US intel & logistics support will soon make Venezuela into another Iraq, unless Russia, Cuba, &/ China send their navy, army, AF & marines there 1st.

China is communist to this day.

Only in name, since the CCP is the sole ruling body to whom the PLA belongs. The ruling elite preserves its legitimacy by phenomenal success in the economic development, using capitalist methods. The widely dispersed Chinese diaspora, HK & Macao r mostly left alone & r being used for financial links & investments with the rest of the world.
I would call today's CCP as the nationalist mirror image of the Kuomintang founded "Republic of China" on Taiwan. Even before the Deng reforms, Mao was an Emperor all but in name. https://www.amazon.com/Mao-Story-Jung-Chang/dp/0679746323/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ZWBE8BA82MDHS0MCY552

Many previous successful rebel leaders & conquerors of China became emperors as well.