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Logic says that the order will be for 48-50 aircrafts as the previous two ones
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Su-35S: News
George1- Posts : 18491
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LMFS- Posts : 5142
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kvs wrote:Shoigu would be referring to the total cost of the contracts and the incremental delivery for the current period.
Yes that is what I make of it... already running contracts and now an addition to them. So in essence he said nothing about the cost per airframe of the new contracts...
Canada was looking at buying 65 F-35s for well over $75 million each so Russian prices are more sane.
A bit more sane yes... what about $23 billion for 105 F-35 for Japan? Russian fighters about 1 order of magnitude cheaper (and yes, I know the Japanese contract included engines and what not, but at such difference in prices it is irrelevant) Hats off to the LM salesmen
Last edited by LMFS on Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Isos- Posts : 11586
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A bit more sane yes... what about $23 billion for 105 F-35 for Japan? Russian fighters about 1 order of magnitude cheaper (and yes, I know the Japanese contract included engines and what not, but at such difference in prices it is irrelevant)
The su-35 comes with 2 engines...
LMFS- Posts : 5142
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Isos wrote:The su-35 comes with 2 engines...
... and still the whole plane costs like one engine of the F-35B, not kidding!
kvs- Posts : 15808
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I cited the $75 million US price for the F-35 for Canada (assuming they buy now and not one of the expensive original lots)
because it does not include the post purchase maintenance. I do not know how much is paid for maintenance of Russian
jets over a 20-30 year period. All the big numbers being tossed around for the F-35 include the maintenance cost which
obfuscates the price.
because it does not include the post purchase maintenance. I do not know how much is paid for maintenance of Russian
jets over a 20-30 year period. All the big numbers being tossed around for the F-35 include the maintenance cost which
obfuscates the price.
franco- Posts : 7029
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7.2 billion of that 100 billion for the Su-30SM2's and Yak-130's is for maintenance on the Su-30SM's.
kvs- Posts : 15808
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franco wrote:7.2 billion of that 100 billion for the Su-30SM2's and Yak-130's is for maintenance on the Su-30SM's.
That is incredibly cheap. Most of the cost of the F-35 jets is the maintenance on top of their 75 million dollar initial price per unit.
George1- Posts : 18491
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Su-35 fighters delivery schedule
In one of the video reports on the visit by the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Sergei Shoigu to the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Yu.A. Gagarin (KnAAZ - a branch of PJSC Sukhoi Company as a part of PJSC UAC of the State Corporation Rostec) big-eyed foreign bloggers saw this stand demonstrated to the Minister with the KnAAZ production plan for 2020-2024. The video was distributed by the press service of the governor and the government of the Khabarovsk Territory. A stand with the production plan of the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant named after Yu.A. Gagarin (KnAAZ - a branch of PJSC Sukhoi Company) for 2020-2024. Komsomolsk-on-Amur, 08/12/2020 (c) still from the video of the press service of the governor and the government of the Khabarovsk Territory (via Red Samovar @Strike_Flanker / twitter.com/Strike_Flanker)
If for the supply of Su-57 and Su-35S aircraft under the State Defense Order, this screenshot shows only data for 2020 (one Su-57 and ten Su-35S - as is known) and 2021 (two Su-57 and five Su-35S - the latter for the proposed new contract), then the data on the supply of the Su-35 through military-technical cooperation are clearly visible.
Apparently, two contracts are being implemented for the supply of the Su-35 for export - one KnAAZ is expected to deliver 22 Su-35 aircraft in 2020 and eight in 2021 (a total of 30 aircraft is clearly Egypt), and under another contract, as you can understand, it is planned to deliver 12 Su-35 aircraft in 2022, 14 aircraft in 2023 and six or eight in 2024. In total, according to the second contract, 32-34 Su-35 aircraft should be delivered in 2022-2024, it is most likely that Algeria is their customer .
Also, judging by the schedule, the production of 11 Su-35s for Indonesia is not expected, so, apparently, the Russian side considers the contract with this country inoperative.
Video:
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4112139.html
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LMFS- Posts : 5142
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Somebody with really good eyesight and Russian knowledge can decipher the titles and amounts? There is one row for the new contract implemented apparently on just 2 years, then another which says something like "production in advance", then "rebuild". I am aiming at knowing the amount of Su-35S for the new contract and from there actual unit prices for the plane 
ult- Posts : 837
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LMFS wrote:Somebody with really good eyesight and Russian knowledge can decipher the titles and amounts? There is one row for the new contract implemented apparently on just 2 years, then another which says something like "production in advance", then "rebuild". I am aiming at knowing the amount of Su-35S for the new contract and from there actual unit prices for the plane
3 in 2021, 3+4 in 2022, 10 in 2023, 8 in 2024. But the armament program is till 2027, so you wouldn't know the whole picture anyway. But they also said that they plan to talk about early deliveries (опережающие поставки) later that day.
They were also talking that out of 50 planes that were supposed to be improved (планируемых к доработке) they completed 40, 6 are currently at the plant and the have to do 4 more (взять из эксплуатации). I suppose they are talking about the first batch of Su-35S.
franco- Posts : 7029
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So 28 over the next 4 years for this batch...possibly, maybe... 
LMFS- Posts : 5142
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Charly015 made very detailed numbers here:
https://charly015.blogspot.com/2020/08/el-su-35-el-su-57-y-el-descuido-del.html
Is consistent with Charly015's amounts... that would be RUB2.5B per Su-35, knowing the contract is 70 billion...
https://charly015.blogspot.com/2020/08/el-su-35-el-su-57-y-el-descuido-del.html
franco wrote:So 28 over the next 4 years for this batch...possibly, maybe...
Is consistent with Charly015's amounts... that would be RUB2.5B per Su-35, knowing the contract is 70 billion...
Isos- Posts : 11586
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According to google 70 billions rubles = 950 600 000 $.
Unit price will be 19 804 666$.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
9h
Alexey Nikolsky reports that the new Su-35S fighter 70 billion ruble contract for the MoD will be for 48 fighters to be delivered by 2024.
Unit price will be 19 804 666$.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
9h
Alexey Nikolsky reports that the new Su-35S fighter 70 billion ruble contract for the MoD will be for 48 fighters to be delivered by 2024.
miketheterrible and LMFS like this post
franco- Posts : 7029
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Isos wrote:According to google 70 billions rubles = 950 600 000 $.
Unit price will be 19 804 666$.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
9h
Alexey Nikolsky reports that the new Su-35S fighter 70 billion ruble contract for the MoD will be for 48 fighters to be delivered by 2024.
Who is Alexey Nikolsky?
Isos- Posts : 11586
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franco wrote:
Who is Alexey Nikolsky?
https://mobile.twitter.com/RALee85/status/1300560945413005313
Well he is Alexey Nikolsky
.I Don't know. He is quoting an article of Vedomosti.ru which is in russian. I don't speak russian so I don't share it because I don't know what it says, just the tweet. Rob Lee is quite reliable as he shares sources and translate the interesting parts.
LMFS- Posts : 5142
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Wow that is less than RUB1.5B, less than $20M per plane... maybe that is the reason Shoigu was talking about a new policy of the MoD of buying larger series?
With those amounts ordered, the Su-27 could be finally removed from service, but I don't know if this is the plan, since they want to reopen air bases.
With those amounts ordered, the Su-27 could be finally removed from service, but I don't know if this is the plan, since they want to reopen air bases.
franco- Posts : 7029
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Vedomosti is a Russian business newspaper created by western interests and owned until recently by them. Part of the Moscow Times grouping.
Alexey Nikolsky is apparently a Russian who emigrated to LA and now writes occasional articles for the Moscow Times.
Rob Lee, who does link good information, is a US Marine presently studying or teaching at the UK War College.
That price is great but much less then the previous batch... that alone makes me dubious.
My rule of thumb is unless a senior Russian Defense official presents the info, it is conjecture.
Alexey Nikolsky is apparently a Russian who emigrated to LA and now writes occasional articles for the Moscow Times.
Rob Lee, who does link good information, is a US Marine presently studying or teaching at the UK War College.
That price is great but much less then the previous batch... that alone makes me dubious.
My rule of thumb is unless a senior Russian Defense official presents the info, it is conjecture.
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LMFS- Posts : 5142
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franco wrote:Vedomosti is a Russian business newspaper created by western interests and owned until recently by them. Part of the Moscow Times grouping.
Alexey Nikolsky is apparently a Russian who emigrated to LA and now writes occasional articles for the Moscow Times.
Rob Lee, who does link good information, is a US Marine presently studying or teaching at the UK War College.
That price is great but much less then the previous batch... that alone makes me dubious.
My rule of thumb is unless a senior Russian Defense official presents the info, it is conjecture.
Sure, Vedemosti has a dubious afiliation, but they have previously got good scoops too. In any case is unconfirmed information and would imply lower prices than the ones we had until now.
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AMCXXL- Posts : 1016
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Isos wrote:According to google 70 billions rubles = 950 600 000 $.
Unit price will be 19 804 666$.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
9h
Alexey Nikolsky reports that the new Su-35S fighter 70 billion ruble contract for the MoD will be for 48 fighters to be delivered by 2024.
This is not possible, the previous contract was 100 billions for 50 Su-35, this tine could be as far as 30 or 32
Each Su-35 costs about 2.3 billion rubles
Thinking in dollars makes no sense, the ruble was trading at 28 in 2014 and at 70 now, and that does not mean that the plane is worth cheaper, only that there is less demand for rubles in the foreign exchange market
AMCXXL- Posts : 1016
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LMFS wrote:
With those amounts ordered, the Su-27 could be finally removed from service, but I don't know if this is the plan, since they want to reopen air bases.
The soviet Su-27 will be removed form service in next years
Only rest the Belbek regiment to replace in the VKS and probably a couple of squadrons to complete Vladivostok and Khotilivo
This are the Flanker regiments in VKS
East MD:
-Dzemgi: 2 squadrons Su-35
-Ts.Uglovaya: 1 squadron Su-35 (second squadron probably this year. The MiG-31´s seems already start work at Chuguyevka)
West MD:
-Besovets: 2 squadrons Su-35
-Khotilovo: 1 squadron Su-35 (second squadron probably for 2025. Then Su-35 will be relocated to other place of West MD, MiG-31 will stay at Khotilovo)
South MD:
-Belbek: 2 squadrons Su-27P/SM (raised in 2015, to replace with Su-35 probably in 2022-2024)
-Krymsk: 2 squadrons Su-27SM3 (to replace later)
New regiments will be opened , but armed with Su-57 one each East, West and South MD
Is very probably Su-57 will be based first at Dzemgi, then Su-35 will be relocated very probably at Sakhalin
Also Su-57 could be based at Krymsk and Su-27SM3 could be moved to Rostov area or well to North Fleet
After VKS will be Navy the next to replace Flankers:
-Baltic Flleet: Kaliningrad: 2 squadrons Su-27P (raised in 2019 , to replace with Su-35 probably in 2026-2027)
-North Fleet probably receives also Flankers in long term, for the moment uses Su-33 both for air defense and for crew on Kuznestov
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George1- Posts : 18491
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AMCXXL wrote:LMFS wrote:
With those amounts ordered, the Su-27 could be finally removed from service, but I don't know if this is the plan, since they want to reopen air bases.
The soviet Su-27 will be removed form service in next years
Only rest the Belbek regiment to replace in the VKS and probably a couple of squadrons to complete Vladivostok and Khotilivo
This are the Flanker regiments in VKS
East MD:
-Dzemgi: 2 squadrons Su-35
-Ts.Uglovaya: 1 squadron Su-35 (second squadron probably this year. The MiG-31´s seems already start work at Chuguyevka)
West MD:
-Besovets: 2 squadrons Su-35
-Khotilovo: 1 squadron Su-35 (second squadron probably for 2025. Then Su-35 will be relocated to other place of West MD, MiG-31 will stay at Khotilovo)
South MD:
-Belbek: 2 squadrons Su-27P/SM (raised in 2015, to replace with Su-35 probably in 2022-2024)
-Krymsk: 2 squadrons Su-27SM3 (to replace later)
New regiments will be opened , but armed with Su-57 one each East, West and South MD
Is very probably Su-57 will be based first at Dzemgi, then Su-35 will be relocated very probably at Sakhalin
Also Su-57 could be based at Krymsk and Su-27SM3 could be moved to Rostov area or well to North Fleet
After VKS will be Navy the next to replace Flankers:
-Baltic Flleet: Kaliningrad: 2 squadrons Su-27P (raised in 2019 , to replace with Su-35 probably in 2026-2027)
-North Fleet probably receives also Flankers in long term, for the moment uses Su-33 both for air defense and for crew on Kuznestov
can you write here the current numbers of old types (su-27, su-24, su-25, mig-29)? thank you
https://www.russiadefence.net/t4806-russian-air-force-numbers-and-procurement-plans
Isos- Posts : 11586
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AMCXXL wrote:Isos wrote:According to google 70 billions rubles = 950 600 000 $.
Unit price will be 19 804 666$.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
9h
Alexey Nikolsky reports that the new Su-35S fighter 70 billion ruble contract for the MoD will be for 48 fighters to be delivered by 2024.
This is not possible, the previous contract was 100 billions for 50 Su-35, this tine could be as far as 30 or 32
Each Su-35 costs about 2.3 billion rubles
Thinking in dollars makes no sense, the ruble was trading at 28 in 2014 and at 70 now, and that does not mean that the plane is worth cheaper, only that there is less demand for rubles in the foreign exchange market
I'm not an expert in economy. But I wouldn't be surprised if sukhoi sell them in dollars to have dollars in its bank accounts. Russian gov has a lot of dollars in stock and it's still a stable currency. Then MoD would bebefit from the exchange rate.
AMCXXL- Posts : 1016
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George1 wrote:
can you write here the current numbers of old types (su-27, su-24, su-25, mig-29)? thank you
https://www.russiadefence.net/t4806-russian-air-force-numbers-and-procurement-plans
Sure, at the end of 2020 I will try to update the complete aircraft inventary and ORBAT of RuAF and Naval Aviation
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AMCXXL- Posts : 1016
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Isos wrote:
Well, first of all , Sukhoi is a design office, the planes are manufactured and sold by the OAK Holding companies (KnAAZ, IAZ, NAZ, etc.)
Secondly, within Russia the ruble is used (Russia is not a Banana Republic as Guatemala or Paraguay), the salaries of employees are paid in rubles, components, materials, supplies are paid in rubles
Third, the Russian government pays for airplanes and other weapons in rubles, among other things because it has a Central Bank that makes rubles with which the government can pay for anything within Russia.
However, the Algerians, Egyptians, etc ... yes, they pay in dollars (it is the international trade currency since Breton Woods), which serve the Russian state to be able to pay outside Russia or to obtain reserves, and to the russian companies to be able to buy outside Russia those materials and components that they cannot find inside Russia
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