Project 885: Yasen class

Well for one I am not sure where he is digging 20 Yasen's from.....Black Shark is a very, um, optimistic poster, let's leave it at that.
The missile counts are guesswork as of now, but one thing I can guerntee you WON'T happen is 20 Yasens operating along 10 Anteiis.

Half that number and we are closer to reality.

Austin wrote:Is this true ?

http://www.avanturist.org/forum/topic/469/offset/9540 ( BlackShark )

То есть все "убийцы авианосцев" перевооружат на универсальные ПУ СМ-315 (как на "Северодвинске" и остальных пр.08853 Ясень-М, только там их 8, а тут будет 24). И смогут они нести 24 гиперзвуковых ПКР ОН "Циркон", или 72 сверхзвуковых ПКР ОН "Оникс", или 72 ракеты комплекса оружия "Калибр" (ПКР дозвуковые со сверхзвуковой атакующей ступенью, ПЛУР, КР морского базирования по наземным целям тактической и стратегической дальности, до 5500км). Умрите амеровские АУГ сразу в порту и не мучайтесь. Учитывая десяток (примерно столько удержат и достроят если "Белгород" и кого-то там еще) таких подводных крейсеров в боевом составе и до 20 в итоге "Ясеней-М"... сами посчитаете суммарный залп...

Obviously not, Ясень employ eight 2 m diameter large СМ-346 launchers ,not СМ-315 and for this reason load number of Циркон is pure imagination; СМ-346 and CM-315 differ both in lenght and diameter.

Combat load of 949A will be almsot surely converted to full Kalibr land attack cruise missiles (including torpedo tubes) to obtain the removal of radar component of US's ABM system in Europe and most critical NATO's C4 nodes in the opening stages of an eventual quick escalating conventional crysis with NATO in the next years and the load of Калибр ,even only from missile launchers of overhauled 949A is 96 ,not 72 missiles.

Severodvinsk Sub Fires First Cruise Missile

MOSCOW, November 26 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's newest attack submarine, the Project 855 Severodvinsk, successfully fired its first cruise missile at a land target during manufacturer's sea trials in the White Sea, a source in the United Shipbuilding Corporation told RIA Novosti on Monday.

The Severodvinsk, laid down in 1993, is one of eight Yasen-class boats being built for the Russian Navy.

"The multi-role nuclear-powered submarine Severodvinsk fired a supersonic cruise missile at a land target for the first time during sea trials in the White Sea. The target was successfully destroyed," the source said, without specifying what the weapon was.

"This is of course a big achievement for the shipyard and United Shipbuilding as a whole. Manufacturers' trials are drawing to a close and the boat will soon start state acceptance trials," he said.

The Severodvinsk has a submerged displacement of 13,800 tons, length of 119 meters, speed of 31 knots, and can dive to 600 meters. It has a crew of 90 including 32 officers.

Its main armament consists of 3M55 Oniks (SS-N-26) and 3M54 (SS-N-27) Kalibr cruise missiles and conventional torpedos, rocket-torpedos and mines.

http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121126/177740207.html

http://www.militaryparitet.com/ttp/data/ic_ttp/4874/

3rd Yasen to be laid down this Summer.

Summer means which month for 2013 in Russia ?

Wow, that means that a total of 3 new nuclear subs (2 Boreis and 1 Yasen) will be laid out in one year. They are getting closer to the rate they used to do during CCCP years.

In CCCP years a 971 attack sub was built in...basically 1 year :O
Kilos were launched 4 months after being laid down...

So we are not on the same page as the good old days, not even close.
3 subs laid down isn't bad, but the rate of construction worries me.

TR1 wrote:In CCCP years a 971 attack sub was built in...basically 1 year :O
Kilos were launched 4 months after being laid down...

How did they manage such feat , There is no way they can from laying down to commisioning can do it in one year .....Are you sure you dont have a glass of vodka in your hand while you typed this

Nope, that is what is so shocking o.O

Oh and I did not say commission, but build time .
Though, in some cases (Amur shipyard especially), boats were laid down, launched, commissioned all within 1 year.
Impressive isn't it?

Just check the Wiki dates, I was shocked myself when I discovered this.

The Kilos were sometimes in service half a year after being laid down.

It's all about proper financing! 2 Boreis II and 1 Yasen-M this year, because of cleared financing.

The financing isn't all payed at once, what they need is to ensure stable financing throughout the project.
They can lay down 5 Boreiis this year, doesn't mean all will be finished in a timely manner.

Hopefully the negotiations that took a long time between the MOD and UAC mean some of the issues with funding will be solved.
MOD funding has been crappy - even recently Zvezdocha repair yard did a bunch of initial work on the burned Yekaterinburg basically on their own means, on the assumption MOD would pay them after.
This is of course is ridiculous.

I will be impressed if 885M indeed is quiter than Sea Wolf Class by a good margin cost withstanding. It will for prove acoustic advantage is not a Western dominance.

I think the first 885 class will be as quite if not better than Virginia or Astute class even if not as quite the difference will be very small.

The key bottle neck is now production they should focus on how they can solve it and in next 2 decade this and next they can build 4th Gen SSGN/SSBN and 4 plus types

http://www.militaryparitet.com/ttp/data/ic_ttp/5661/

Sevmash claims Kazan will be handed over in 2015, not 2016 like has been stated due to ovveruns.
Now I think 2016 is still realistic time for boat to be handed over to VMF, but either way we have at least around 6 years from beginning to end of construction.
The 3rd boat is going to be laid down this year, so by current trends will be handed over in 2019.

Now, does anyone reallly think there is possibility for more than 4 Yasens by 2020 ?

No coincidence the navy is suddenly interested in overhauling and modernizing a bunch of legacy subs.

Overhauling existing subs with potential is just common sense.

Does your projection allow for the fact that now they are doing something they have done before and might be able to do better and faster this time around?

4 subs in service by 2020 assumes that the speed from construction to hand over will be decreased from 6 years.
If the 4th boat is laid down next year, it is quite feasible it will enter service before (realistically by the end of) 2020.
5th boat? Unless its also laid down in 2014, and the pace picks up (all conjecture as of now), it will not make it in time for 2020.


What needs to happen is boats need to be laid down steadily after this year, at least 1 per year. Nothing like the big gap from the Kazan (2009) to the 3rd boat (2013).
If this happens a steady stream of new boats will be available past 2020 through 2025 which will be the right time to decommission current classes.

What prevents me from assuming that the next boat will be completed much faster than Kazan is the lack of info about its construction pace. Sevmash claims everything is on plan and without pauses. If that is the case the timeline cannot be expected to increase drastically.
Further we have the issue of so much work at one shipyard.
Wonder why Amur isn't being brought into the picture.

Now, does anyone reallly think there is possibility for more than 4 Yasens by 2020 ?

No coincidence the navy is suddenly interested in overhauling and modernizing a bunch of legacy subs.

Submarine forces to have conventional weapons.

rian article details about "high precision" weapons in all the submarines.This might also be a factor in the delay of project 885M submarines.

I mean what are these weapons. think just too classified to be speculated..?

Upgrade of super-hypersonic Calibre(only for pr 885 ,almost 6 years behind 885M) , or most probably something else.

Can any one I mean "speculate" on these "conventional strategic weapons.." opp sounding words..though.. I thought strategic was only nuke..(Russ sense)

Submarine forces precision weapons

As the 885M is also getting delayed so now hence this weapon will also be fitted in upgraded Akula's.

Strategic/theatre are range descriptions, though in terms of cruise missiles there is an accuracy requirement too.

Older Soviet naval cruise missiles were based on the Granat cruise missile (note Granat, subsonic cruise missile, not Granit supersonic anti ship missile)... we are talking about SS-N-21 Sampson missiles here not SS-N-19 Shipwreck missiles.

The cold war missiles didn't have the accuracy for conventional warheads as the size of the warhead (up to 400kgs) meant the accuracy (CEP 200m) was not precise enough.

Newer models have greatly improved accuracy (less than 15m CEP) which is accurate enough for a conventional HE warhead to be effective.

This means that the subsonic all the way models of Klub (2,500km range) could use nuclear or conventional warheads and still be effective.

It is unknown what range the supersonic versions of Klub has... perhaps 1,500km with the vast majority of that in subsonic cruise flight.

I rather suspect the Onyx will likely be able to engage targets in the 600-700km range bracket at supersonic speeds, while Brahmos II will also likely be designed to be used from UKSK launch tubes too.

I think we have not seen the last of these "High precision weapons".

I think they are really a mystery ..

We would know in time as to what these nasty statements coming from the top about..

"High precision weapons" means..

Even Kilo class subs not to say Amur 950 with 10 VLS can now be equipped with 2500km range weapons giving Western strategists something

to think about.

http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=329384&download=2&type=.jpg

Cool! Last years Kalibr launch from the Severodvinsk.

TR1 wrote:http://www.balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=329384&download=2&type=.jpg

Cool! Last years Kalibr launch from the Severodvinsk.

Wow

Incredible picture. Nice find.

I have read that more tests with Kalibr will follow soon.

I would have been more impressed if it was a submerged launch

Damn gorgeous..!

I would have been more impressed if it was a submerged launch

The reason why it was developed for all frigates and corvettes.
This is also a strong reason that it was not purposefully built for Severodvinsk class.

Dont know which versions are deployed in upcoming frigates.
The launch almost looks like a mini-Bulava.
The missile is in serial production for all corvettes and Frigates and DAMN.. THAT LOOKS REALLY TINY smaaall vehicle almost like hovering israeli UAV vehicles..

Amazing man.. Russians are developing and minitiarising (solid fuel) technology relentlessly..

I would have been more impressed if it was a submerged launch

It was a test. They will start with testing it from a barge, then a real ship/sub, then they will try from a submerged but stationary sub and then perhaps a sub moving at low speed.

Proper testing is much better than getting this into operational service only to have problems and deaths or accidents because it wasn't properly tested.

This vertical launch system is UKSK and can fire a range of weapon types including Onyx/Brahmos, as well as the Klub family of anti ship, land attack, and anti sub weapons.

The cold war equivalent of being able to launch a Moskit, a SS-N-21 Granat, and a SS-N-15 anti sub rocket delivered torpedo system (like ASROC) but mounted on every new Russian surface and subsurface vessel... I'd say that is pretty impressive.

MOSCOW, June 3 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s Project 885 Yasen-class attack submarine, the Severodvinsk, has embarked on its latest series of official tests in the White Sea, the manufacturer said Monday.

Sevmash shipyard spokeswoman Yekaterina Pilikina said the tests had started several days ago, without providing details on their time frame or scope.

The shipyard had earlier said the submarine would continue tests that had started in 2011. The Severodvinsk has spent a total of 137 days at sea.

The submarine, whose construction began in 1993, is due to be delivered to the Navy later this year. It was to have been handed over by the end of 2012.
The Severodvinsk carried out a series of cruise-missile test-firings in November, including the test-launch of a supersonic cruise missile at a land target.

The multirole attack submarine has a submerged displacement of 13,800 tons, length of 119 meters, speed of 31 knots, and can dive to 600 meters. It has a crew of 90, including 32 officers.

It is armed with 3M55 Oniks (SS-N-26) and 3M54 (SS-N-27) Kalibr cruise missiles, torpedoes and mines.