Project 885: Yasen class

Russia’s newest Kazan nuclear submarine enters White Sea for trials

https://tass.com/defense/1203643

Well thats the point of Sea Trails to catch things like this.

The Project 885M Kazan nuclear submarine, deployed in the White Sea, successfully hit a target at the Chizha proving ground in Russia’s Arkhangelsk Region about 1,000 kilometers away, with a Kalibr cruise missile during the final stage of state trials, the Northern Fleet press service said.

https://tass.com/defense/1226971

Arrow wrote:Kazan launch Onyx missile.

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=0&nid=542503&lang=RU

Oddly, while there are vids of Russian subs and surface vessels firing Kalibre and even the new Zircon, I can't say I've ever seen a vid of any Oniks launch except for the land-launched version (Bastion)? Anyone have a link to such a vid? Indian navy frigates don't count...

Nuclear submarine "Kazan" to complete state tests in December - commander

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=542940&lang=RU

Arrow wrote:Great though this is only the second ship of Project 885. Meanwhile, the US has already introduced 18 Virginia-class ships. Incredible potential difference.

And? America has the world's reserve currency, runs multi-trillion dollar fiscal deficits every year, and has $27 trillion in debt as well as a population over twice that of Russia. Russia has to live within its means. They don't have to match America 1:1 in naval capability and never even came close during the days of the USSR. They have to provide a sufficient deterrent force.

Or just enough nukes to nuke the US and it's proxies.

calripson wrote:

Arrow wrote:Great though this is only the second ship of Project 885. Meanwhile, the US has already introduced 18 Virginia-class ships. Incredible potential difference.

And? America has the world's reserve currency, runs multi-trillion dollar fiscal deficits every year, and has $27 trillion in debt as well as a population over twice that of Russia. Russia has to live within its means. They don't have to match America 1:1 in naval capability and never even came close during the days of the USSR. They have to provide a sufficient deterrent force.

It's literally the saying "Quality vs Quantity", The Virginia Class won't be fielding any hypersonic missiles any time soon (if ever).

calripson wrote:

Arrow wrote:Great though this is only the second ship of Project 885. Meanwhile, the US has already introduced 18 Virginia-class ships. Incredible potential difference.

And? America has the world's reserve currency, runs multi-trillion dollar fiscal deficits every year, and has $27 trillion in debt as well as a population over twice that of Russia. Russia has to live within its means. They don't have to match America 1:1 in naval capability and never even came close during the days of the USSR. They have to provide a sufficient deterrent force.

Besides, they need at least 1 SSN per CSG, of which there r 11. So, if 3 SSNs needed to deploy 1, then 33 SSNs r needed for USN CSGs. 
The VMF has only 1 CV & there r already enough SSN/GNs for it & other tasks.

promo pics

The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation will "teach" submarines to direct "Zircons" to the enemy

The Russian Ministry of Defense intends to conduct a series of naval exercises, within the framework of which nuclear submarines of project 885 "Ash" will aim at targets hypersonic missiles "Zircon" installed on frigates of project 22350 "Admiral Gorshkov".

Sources in the military department told Izvestia on Wednesday, December 16, the exercises to work out the interaction of the latest surface and submarine ships of the Russian Navy will take place next year and will be held as part of the Northern Fleet's combat training program.

During the maneuvers, the submarines will detect a simulated enemy and give instructions to frigates to aim the Zircons at him and then launch missiles.

Full article

https://iz.ru/1100830/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm/vse-iasen-submariny-navedut-tcirkony-na-protivnika

Well that is interesting... forward scouting subs listening for targets and plotting their positions using sonar and transmitting target information to other platforms further away...

In fact they could have rather small submarines dedicated for the purpose with a tiny crew that could be forward deployed with minimal noise signature... and a decent sonar set listening for enemy shipping using computer power to determine which is which.... enemy carrier groups are not quiet and are often moving at speed to get from or to somewhere...

Of course having standard SSNs doing the same thing would be rather useful as well and also rather more flexible and useful for other jobs too.

It is all part of their new net centricity plan which means fighter planes and subs can scout targets that other platforms can engage meaning the fighters don't need to fly everywhere with high drag large and heavy anti ship missiles, but can use sophisticated sensors and equipment to find targets suitable for engaging... and subs can do the same... as well as small surface, subsurface and airborne drones presumably...

GarryB wrote:Well that is interesting... forward scouting subs listening for targets and plotting their positions using sonar and transmitting target information to other platforms further away...

In fact they could have rather small submarines dedicated for the purpose with a tiny crew that could be forward deployed with minimal noise signature... and a decent sonar set listening for enemy shipping using computer power to determine which is which.... enemy carrier groups are not quiet and are often moving at speed to get from or to somewhere...

Of course having standard SSNs doing the same thing would be rather useful as well and also rather more flexible and useful for other jobs too.

It is all part of their new net centricity plan which means fighter planes and subs can scout targets that other platforms can engage meaning the fighters don't need to fly everywhere with high drag large and heavy anti ship missiles, but can use sophisticated sensors and equipment to find targets suitable for engaging... and subs can do the same... as well as small surface, subsurface and airborne drones presumably...

They could use drones!

Nuclear submarine "Kazan" project 885M "Ash-M" fired "Onyx"
https://en.topwar.ru/178313-apl-kazan-proekta-885m-jasen-m-vypolnila-strelbu-oniksom.html

They could use drones!

They could, but ironically during peace time their satellite network would probably already be good enough for the job most of the time, but during war time you couldn't rely on that so SSNs and Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPAs), and even Russian ground based long range radar can detect ships out to 5-6 thousand kilometres...

But having aerial drones and also carrier borne aircraft including fighters and AWACS platforms... long range 10,000km range HALE and MALE type drones... plus even sea surface and subsurface drones all looking for targets will be useful to collect information to add to their picture...

GarryB wrote:It is all part of their new net centricity plan which means fighter planes and subs can scout targets that other platforms can engage meaning the fighters don't need to fly everywhere with high drag large and heavy anti ship missiles, but can use sophisticated sensors and equipment to find targets suitable for engaging... and subs can do the same... as well as small surface, subsurface and airborne drones presumably...

What type of new net centricity plan is this? On what basis will they decide which fighter plane, sub and surface combatant will scout targets and which platform will engage these targets?

Why can't a sub (I assume you are referring to nuclear subs) scout and subsequently engage the target?

Inside Kazan

What type of new net centricity plan is this?

Their system has been applied to new and upgraded ship and sub platforms, but now it is also being applied to aircraft too, and satellite platforms and one presumes land based MPA aircraft and sea bed sonar systems and of course mobile deployable sonar systems...

On what basis will they decide which fighter plane, sub and surface combatant will scout targets and which platform will engage these targets?

Well if they are operating now with the Kuznetsov in dry dock I would expect a group of Russian ships in the middle of the ocean wont expect too much from MiG-29KR fighters in terms of support... radar and sonar and satellite sources would probably suffice in peace time.

They have what are called commanders, who get information placed in front of them and they issue orders... hence why they get called Commanders of course... a MiG-29KR launched in the general direction from a radar or radio emission flying perhaps 600km and operating at 10km altitude might detect a target that turns out to be an enemy ship... the MiG probably does not have anti ship missiles with it... it probably has air to air weapons for self defence in a lighter low drag load to allow higher speed while maintaining operational range. If it did have suitable anti ship missiles then the commander could decide whether to attack or not, and if they decided to attack then those heavy high drag Kh-35s or Kh-31s the MiG was carrying could be launched at the target... it could monitor the results and then depart... of course if there are large numbers of enemy ships it could use its radar to locate them... identify them and pass location and ID information back to the ships and then depart the area before it gets engaged... accelerating away and perhaps dropping to low level if being tracked by missile targeting radar...

It would be flexible and would be largely based on the situation.... during peace time the MiG would scan for targets and ID them and then continue its patrol.

Why can't a sub (I assume you are referring to nuclear subs) scout and subsequently engage the target?

It certainly can but subs are more use when the enemy does not know they are there.... as that chart shows the sub detects the target and passes information back to the ship and the ship launches the Zircon hypersonic missile... but of course the sub could launch a Zircon missile too if it wanted to... but remaining quiet and not launching weapons means it can remain where it is and monitor the results of the attack while looking for other enemy threats...

Nobody designs properly hydrodynamic shaped submarines like Russia.