Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Thread:

This is very bad.......now the U.S. would barge in as usual and claim that Pakistan's nukes are also defended by incompetent, inefficient & corrupt Pakistani military fools who are worthless bunch of good for nothing cunts.

I for one wont be surprised, as these corrupt and incompetent Punjabi's have destroyed Pakistan!

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/23/loud-explosion-heard-near-paf-museum.html

So here goes......Osama found living in the ass of this corrupt ISI, as portrayed by the media.

A major military installation attacked today, last year it was the GHQ of this Corrupt army that was attacked. Hundreds of drone strikes......

And now the final act of securing the nukes inside Pakistan is on the horizon.....the media has already started chirping........It's a sad and disgraceful day for Pakistan and its highly corrupt army that the country is well and truly a failed state. Last year when I was there for work, I distinctly remember that the country had no government. Anyone could do whatever the hell they wanted! No body to question you for jack shit.

have a look, this we all know leads up to what we all knew long ago.......Pakistan will be disarmed by force or deception:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/23/us-pakistan-attack-nukes-idUSTRE74M07J20110523

Pakistan military is officially a joker chikunn outfit. A bunch of only 5 or 6 ragtag freedumb fighters managed to practically infiltrate, tie down a battalion of army commandos for almost 2 days! and managed to destroy (admitted) 2 P-3C's, and a Sea King Chopper as well as severely damage 2 more P-3's. Nobody knows what the actual losses are, let alone in men who got killed for nothing.

While this stupid ass Pakistan army was getting away with corruption, now its in the spotlight as the most corrupt, inefficient, reckless and parasitic institution in that country. Unless heads roll now in senior military leadership, this incident wont go away:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/24/pakistan-attack-idUSL3E7GO0MQ20110524

How does the J-10 that Pakistan is getting compare with F-16 variants that pakistan operates ?

What does the turkish updates include ?

You can also think of as a bashing by Americans against European military machines; but the fact that in dogfight the EF-200 didn't prove well obliges that it still possesses the same flaws which it was destined to rectify namely that of old Tornado.
Read full story

You can have the best plane in the world but the simple fact is that it it is misused or the pilot makes a mistake against an opponent that doesn't make a mistake pretty much any plane can defeat any other plane within reason.

The point is that it is not just the pilot and plane... the USAF could operate F-20s if they really wanted... the point is that an F-20 with AWACS support and JSTARs and all the other bits and bobs is a subsonic fighter jet that can carry AMRAAM.
AWACS means the USAF pilot can get into a position to shoot at enemy aircraft where they have a good chance for a kill and the enemy can't see them... ie behind the enemy.

With more effective aircraft like the F-22 obviously it is much easier for the pilot, but when fighting countries the first thing the US does is take down their air defence and communications... and without that it is a team on one side playing individuals so the result is hardly in doubt.

Austin wrote:How does the J-10 that Pakistan is getting compare with F-16 variants that pakistan operates ?

Hey Austin
The major thing that we wanted is AESA radar that was rejected to us by US& France alike. Thus the J-10 will likely fill this hole. & of coarse with the powerful radar will come greater range & more accurate armaments...
RADAR: http://www.mychinanet.com/

J-10B fighter’s radar
Mychinanet - Published Time：2011-06-06 22:39 Tags：J-10B Source：My China Net
Recently, a few photos of J-10B fighter’s radar array in Chinese websites exposed. Users analysis think that the pictures shows the J-10B’s radar is a passive phased array radar (PESA). PESA radar usually the middle of a row or rows of IFF antenna. The Active Phased Array Radar (AESA) has not yet seen the middle of this line is a flat surface without protrusion, so some users believe that the yellow radar map the surface of the black dots array for the IFF actual antenna, which fire control radar is to determine whether to adopt active phased array main indicator of high-tech.

Armaments:

J-10 with Sd-10 AAMs

Antiship cruise missile

Pakistan acquired 100 of these anti-radiation to be used on jf-17...so can be used on J-10. Cannot giv a valuable source but we are engaged in buying the Denel corp missile:

The Pakistan Air Force may choose to equip its JF-17 combat aircraft with the A-Darter missile as part of the program's 5th generation short range air-to-air missile requirement.[4]

... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-Darter_%28missile%29

Regarding turkish updates will post afterwards with some images; let me as some PDF member

Did Venezuela ever ship those 21 Block A/B F-16's to China?

With Pakistan flying F-16's that gives China a parts source. China could produce products to upgrade Pakistani and Chinese F-16's to surprise countries. Maybe why Pakistani F-16's surprised anyone?

That would be the real surprise.

The F-16s that Venezuela had were even more obsolete than the aircraft the US is willing to sell to Pakistan.

There would be little to gain by fitting components from such old outdated versions.

You would need a very recent model F-16 to go one on one with a Typhoon and expect victory... one off surprise victories however are always possible.

these are their own assets are created to fight indian troops in kashmir and they turn hostile ,those who plays with fire ,ultimately fire gobbles them up.

GarryB's New Zealand is forced to pay so much a year for their antique fighter planes from America.


Pakistan was also likely forced to pay the US so much a year for those P-3's.


Oooopsie.....a 'terrorist' blew them up. Looks like Pakistan won't have to make their annual payment to the US for them.


....don't go giving New Zealand any ideas on how to get rid of their old US planes...lol. "terrorists blew them up".....

As far as I know the $10 million a year it costs to keep them in flying condition so we could sell them if we get permission from the country that sold them to us, I don't think that royalties are included in that 10 mil.

I still back my solution... take them out to deep water on a barge and sink the bloody things... at $10 mil a year for the last 10 years... we could have bought 2 Flankers for that price and covered the costs of operations by flying them against the Australian navy as cruise missiles like we did with the Skyhawks.


Cruise missile substitutes and airshows... that is what we used those planes for.

Pakistan Re-equips Squadron With AEW&C Planes

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's Air Force (PAF) Thursday stood up its unit of Chinese Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft in a ceremony attended by the head of the PAF, Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafiq Butt, and Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Though the exact location of the ceremony was not given, it is believed to have been held at PAF Base Masroor in Karachi as the prime minister was known to have been in the city that day.

Brian Cloughley, an analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, said AEW&C "is very good news for the PAF – and for Pakistan" because it "will dramatically improve early warning capabilities which up until now have been comparatively rudimentary."

The ZDK-03 Karakorum Eagle is a dish-based AEW&C system mounted on a Shaanxi Y-8F600 aircraft. Though never confirmed, it has been speculated that the dish houses an AESA antenna.

Four were ordered in 2008 with the first delivered in 2010.

Air Commodore Syed Muhammad Ali, a spokesman for the Air Force, confirmed all Karakorum Eagle aircraft on order have now been delivered, but could not say if more would be ordered from China.

The aircraft join No.4 Squadron, which was first established in 1959 with Bristol Freighter transports and Grumman HU-16 Albatross amphibians. The amphibians were used for maritime reconnaissance, search and rescue, and casualty evacuation alongside Sikorsky H-19D helicopters. The HU-16s were retired in 1968 and the H-19Ds in 1969.

The unit was then "number-plated" until officially re-equipped with the Karakorum Eagle.

The four Karakorum Eagle AEW&C aircraft join the surviving three Saab Erieye AEW&C aircraft ordered in 2005 and delivered from 2009. One of the four Erieye aircraft was destroyed in a terrorist attack on Kamra Air Base in August 2012.

That the Air Force operates two types of AEW&C aircraft for the same mission has been much commented on.

Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank says the Karakorum Eagle's mission is "[b]asically the same job as Erieye but based in southern sector.

"To cover all the length of Pakistan we needed additional AEW&C aircraft and ZDK-03 was the answer due to political and financial considerations," he said.

Former Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail says the PAF was not keen on their purchase.

"The [Karakorum] Eagle was purchased rather reluctantly, under pressure of [then President] Gen. Musharraf, as a political expedient [Chinese appeasement], and not because of any reasons of technical superiority," he said. "It would have been more cost effective to manage a single type than these two vastly different ones."

Though he now believes attitudes have changed.

"Having said that, the performance of the Eagle has turned out to be surprisingly good, which takes some sting out of the initial criticism," he said.

Tufail says an absence of news of the fourth aircraft being delivered may mean it is undergoing installation of Link 16 datalink equipment to enable it to communicate with all of the PAF's aircraft, particularly its F-16s, and not just the JF-17 Thunders.

To date the Erieye AEW&C aircraft have been able to communicate with the Western aircraft in service such as the F-16, and the Karakorum Eagle with the Chinese aircraft such as the Sino-Pak JF-17, and perhaps the F-7PG.

Cloughley does not think this has changed.

"It's unlikely that the systems will complement those of the US, but cooperation with China is more important for Pakistan," he said.

PAF officials have previously told Defense News that this was impractical and would change.

Though perhaps not as technologically advanced as the Swedish Erieye, according to Haris Khan of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank, the two types of AEW&C aircraft have worked very well together with the installation of Link 16 compatible equipment throughout the PAF's aircraft fleet.

Combined, they have effectively covered the country and much of Pakistan's maritime area of interest.

Well, this news is making the rounds, and as dodgy as it sounds, there seems little substance to this as well, probably along the same lines as Russia supplying S300's to Iran. The previous news about the Mil35 sale to Pakistan army also fizzled out, as expected:

http://atimes.com/2015/09/coming-soon-russian-su-35s-to-pakistan-and-american-f-35s-to-india/

Pakistan is buyimg 8 F-16s from US.

max steel wrote:Pakistan is buyimg 8 F-16s from US.

"In 2006, a contract was signed between the United States and Pakistan over the purchase of 18 new F-16C/D block 50/52 aircraft with an option for another 18 more. The first three F-16C/Ds were delivered in June 2010 with the rest inducted into the PAF by the end of 2012. That same year, the United States delivered 14 used F-16s to the PAF. According to a Pakistani government official quoted by IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly, “[t]hese new aircraft will be more advanced than the last batch of F-16s [the contract for which was signed in 2006].” The PAF currently operates around 70 F-16s. In February 2014, Islamabad announced that the PAF would purchase an entire squadron of 13 F-16 A/Bs from Jordan. Delivery of the new aircraft have begun in April 2015.

The principal concern of U.S. lawmakers is that the F-16s will not be used to battle militants within Pakistan but rather be deployed to deter India. However, an unnamed PAF officer quoted by IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly said back in 2014 that the “F-16A/Bs have been procured from Jordan to take some of the load off our other F-16s, which are undertaking numerous tasks in the ‘law enforcement’ operations. The F-16s are supporting our ongoing law enforcement efforts on our western border. We are not using [attack] helicopters, but are using F-16s to stop the terrorists.”

Source: http://thediplomat.com/2015/10/us-will-sell-8-f-16-fighter-jets-to-pakistan/

Sounds like Block 52 with updated avionics, i dont think they would deliver them straight Block 60. They even got second hand F16s from Jordan, i think some major canibalisation of parts is underway.

Lockheed Martin Allowed to Sell Eight F-16 to Pakistan

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency said that the US Department of State has approved the sale of eight F-16 combat aircraft and other equipment to Pakistan.

WASHINGTON (Sputnik) — The US Department of State has approved the sale of eight F-16 combat aircraft and other equipment to Pakistan worth $699 million, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a news release.

"The proposed sale improves Pakistan's capability to meet current and future security threats," the release stated on Friday. "These additional F-16 aircraft will… enhance Pakistan’s ability to conduct counter-insurgency and counterterrorism operations."

The Defense Security Cooperation Agency said it had notified the US Congress of the possible sale and was awaiting approval to execute it.

"This proposed sale contributes to US foreign policy objectives and national security goals by helping to improve the security of a strategic partner in South Asia," it noted.

The Pakistanis will also buy eight AN/APG-68(V)9 radars, and eight Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites, the release added.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20160213/1034683011/lockheed-sells-fighters-pakistan.html#ixzz402dNy3UW

"Pakistan’s military paraded its wares for the second year running to commemorate Pakistan Day, during which the Chinese CAIC Z-10 helicopter gunship and the Shaheen III ballistic missile were notable participants.

The day marks the occasion both of the Lahore Resolution in 1940 that called for the formation of Pakistan, and the declaration of a republic in 1956.

Commenting on the parade, analyst, author and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad, Brian Cloughley, said there were “no equipment surprises, but the main thing about the parade is that it took place at all, which is a positive indicator concerning the never-ending fight against terrorism. The parade had generally been an annual event, but the deterioration in the security situation led to a seven-year break from 2007 until last year. It has also been notable in the past for the public debut of new equipment.

Early Pakistan showed interest in purchasing Z-10 helicopters. The helicopter is capable of targeting the enemy with a range of 3 to 4 kilometers without coming in reader. It is also capable of targeting in the air as well as on ground from air.

With the induction of Z-10, Pakistan Army’s capability of targeting the terrorists will increase. Pakistan is already using the helicopters effectively in the war against terrorism.



The CAIC Z-10 , also called WZ-10, is an attack helicopter developed by the People’s Republic of China. It is designed primarily for anti-tank warfare missions but has secondary air-to-air capability as well. It was designed by Kamov design bureau of Russia under a contract with the Chinese government. It was further developed and flight tested by the 602nd Research Institute under Wu Ximing and is being built by Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAIC)."





Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/pakistan-to-showcase-new-z-10-thunderbolt-attack-helicopters-for-the-first-time-in-military-parade.html

"Pakistan Minister of Defence Production showed interest in IAR 330 Medium Utility Helicopter are manufactured by Romania-based IAR Brasov.

Pakistan and Romania on Monday decided to enhance defence cooperation. This understanding reached during a meeting ofRomanian delegation and Rana Tanveer Hussain, Minister of Defence Production (MoDP). They exchanged views on matters of mutual interest and enhancing cooperation in defence production.

Pakistan also showed interest in IAR 330 Puma helicopters is a license-built variation of the SA 330 Puma helicopter. These helicopters were procured by Pakistan from 1987 to 88.The Pakistan Army has been using Pumas for transportation of army personal, food and equipment. The Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma is a four-bladed, twin-engine medium carriage helicopter. These helicopters played important role in Siachin flare.



Romania acquired the licence from Aérospatiale to produce the SA 330 Puma in July 1974. The first licence-built helicopter designated IAR 330H made its first flight in October 1975. Twenty-four helicopters were upgraded to IAR 330 SOCAT in cooperation with Elbit Systems (Israel). The IAR 330H helicopter was subsequently modernised into the IAR 330L configuration. The IAR 330 helicopters were also exported to Pakistan, Sudan, Lebanon, Kenya and the United Arab Emirates."

Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/pakistan-may-buy-romanian-iar-330-medium-utility-helicopter.html

"United States (US) Congress Committee has interrupted financial aid worth USD 430 million to Pakistan putting sale of eight F-16 fighter jets on the line once again, Dunya News reported Friday.

Department of State stated to a British journal that Obama government is in favour of supplying F-16s to Pakistan but US aid would not be used for the purpose.

Pakistan cannot afford to pay around USD 700 million for eight fighter jets and necessary equipment. As per the previous understanding, United States was to grant USD 430 million while Pakistan was to pitch in USD 270 million.



On the other hand United States Congress has also halted provision of USD 740.2 million funds for Pakistan under military aid package.

Pakistani embassy’s spokesperson in the United States, Nadeem Hotiana said that the US administration has already supported F-16s sale to Pakistan however purchase of arms and ammunition is a lengthy and time-taking procedure."

Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/us-congress-stops-430-million-aid-to-pakistan-for-buying-8-f-16s.html

"Pakistan Minister of Defence may buy 20 Mi-17 military transport helicopters made at Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant,.

“Baikal Daily” reported that the JSC “Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant” is waiting for a large order for the production of 20 helicopters to Pakistan. Moreover, the contract is not signed and is considered by the holding company “Russian Helicopters”.

Mi-17 is a military transport variant in the Mi-8/17 family of helicopters. It is produced by Kazan Helicopters and Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant, a subsidiary of Russian Helicopters.



The Mi-17 medium-lifter was designed based on the Mi-8 airframe. The helicopter retains the outstanding performance characteristics of its predecessors and can fly in tropical and maritime climates,and desert conditions.

The large cabin of the helicopter offers a floor area of 12.5m² and an effective space of 23m³. The standard portside door and ramp at rear allow for the quick ingress and egress of troops and cargo."

Source: http://defence-blog.com/news/pakistan-may-buy-20-mi-17-military-transport-helicopters.html

PAKISTAN F16,S participated at RED FLAG and GREEN FLAG exercise with Israel U.S Air Force in Nevada


PAKISTAN F16,S participated at RED FLAG AND GREEN FLAG military exercise with Israel U.S Air Force in Nevada Base

Six Pakistan Air Force (PAF) F-16C/D Block-52+ are taking part in Red Flag, which is termed as the “U.S. Air Force’s premier air-to-air combat training exercise.” In tandem, the PAF’s F-16s – which belong to the No. 5 squadron based out of Shahbaz Air Base in Sindh – will also participate in Green Flag, an exercise for air-to-ground mission training (e.g. precision-guided strikes) (The Aviationist). The current Red Flag exercise is taking place during 11-29 July, while Green Flag is scheduled for 23 July to 12 August.
http://quwa.org/2016/07/27/pakistani-f-16s-red-flag-green-flag-exercises/
Israeli aircraft will fly alongside Pakistani and United Arab Emirates planes in the US Air Force drills
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/08/05/478637/Lebanon-UAE-Israel-Pakistan-US-drill-
Israel Air Force to Participate in U.S. Drill Alongside Pakistani, U.A.E. Jets
he Israel Air Force is set to take part in a large-scale aerial exercise in the United States later this month. According to reports, teams from the Pakistani and United Arab Emirates air forces will also be taking part in the Red Flag air-to-air combat exercise in Nevada.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.734899

Pakistan orders three more Saab 2000 AEW&C aircraft



http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2626235.html