Mi-28N Havoc: News

The radar on the Mi-28NM has both cm wave and mm wave antennas which means it should vastly exceed all other helo mounted attack helo radars in terms of range.

MM wave radar is not good for long range use as its energy is absorbed by moisture... it is often used in weather radar which can detect and track weather formations.

In terms of attack performance a 360 degree radar is not that useful... like a fighter aircraft having a view to the side and behind makes little sense when your weapons don't face that way. As mentioned however a helo can easily turn to direct weapons in different directions and the fact that the new mast mounted radar can direct the Ataka and Krisantema missiles means it could turn and fire and then turn away while still guiding the missile... a rather useful feature.

No doubt it will also be used for detecting incoming threats which can be used with the self defence suite to keep the aircraft safe.

I read that one of the reasons the Ka-50 did not have the steped conventional tandem seat configuration was due to considerations of weight.

you joking? The Ka-50 does not have a stepped cockpit design because there is only the pilot and no gunner so there is no second crew position to "step".

The Ka-52 has side by side seating to improve crew communication and to reduce weight... if you think about two separate armoured boxes, one for each crewman... if you put them one in front of the other then you can take away the front armour of the rear position. If you put them side by side then you can take the whole one side armour off both positions.

The Mi-28 is very well armoured too... I have seen a 14.5mm HMG placed beside the cockpit and fired from less than 5 metres directly into the cockpit side glass and not penetrate.... that is outstanding protection... in comparison the Apaches side glass windows have been penetrated by AK bullets from the ground... ie at least a few hundred metres.

Russia’s new combat helicopter to undergo tests in Syria

The manufacturer would like to test the Mi-28UB helicopters in Syria

MOSCOW, August 4. /TASS/. Russia’s newest helicopter Mi-28UB (with dual controls) will be tested in Syria, the CEO of the Helicopters of Russia company, Andrei Boginsky, has said.

"Currently the Mi-28N helicopter has a crew of two - the pilot and the operator. The task of the new project is to turn the helicopters into a combined combat and training aircraft, with the full set of controls in front of both seats. We would like these helicopters [Mi-28UB - TASS] to undergo tests here [in Syria]," Boginsky said in an interview on the Zvezda TV news channel recorded at the Hmeymim air base.

Earlier, the Helicopters of Russia general designer, Nikolai Pavlenko, said eight new Mi-28UB helicopters would be provided for the Aerospace Force later this year.

The chief of the Aerospace Force’s army aviation combat training, Nikolai Pavlenko, said that the first Mi-28UB helicopters would be delivered to the 344th center of combat training and retraining center in Torzhok.

Mi-28UB is a combined combat and training configuration of the attack helicopter Mi-28N Night Hunter. It began to be developed in 2010. The double control function is one of its key features. Although the helicopter is meant for training pilots, it retains all combat capabilities and can attack enemy targets and vehicles.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/959398

First 'Mi-28UB' Ready For Delivery

Russian state company Rostec announced today that Rostvertol company of the Russian Helicopters (RH) produced the first Mi-28UB helicopters for the Russian Ministry of Defence. Rostec stated that the production of the first batch has begun at the plant in Rostov in 2016.

Designed for the Russian Aerospace Forces, Mi-28UB 'Night Hunter' features a dual control system that allows piloting the helicopter from both command cockpit and operator's cockpit. Mi-28UB also have advanced avionics and communication systems, increasing the helicopter's reliability, safety and performance specifications.

The Mi-28UB will be used for fire support of land advanced units and antitank defence. alongside its primary objective the helicopters can be used for flight training.

RH plans to deliver 8 Night Hunters with dual control before the end of this year.

First 'Mi-28UB' Ready For Delivery

Russia’s Aerospace Force to get eight Mi-28UB helicopters by year-end

Mi-28UB is a combat and training configuration of the attack helicopter Mi-28N Night Hunter

PATRIOT THEME PARK, August 22. /TASS/. The Helicopters of Russia holding company (an affiliate of Rostec) by the end of the year will get eight new helicopters Mi-28UB Night Hunter with dual control, the company’s press-service said, adding that the first two helicopters have been manufactured and are being tested.

"By now the Rostvertol company (an affiliate of the holding company Helicopters of Russia - TASS) has manufactured the first two serial Mi-28UB helicopters. At the moment they are undergoing acceptance tests at the factory. A total of eight combat and training Night Hunters with dual control are to be provided by the end of the year," the holding company said.

Earlier, the chief of combat training of the Aerospace Force’s army aviation, Oleg Chesnokov, said the first Mi-28UBs will be delivered to the 334th combat training and retraining center in Torzhok. The center’s instruction personnel has already undergone a course of instruction to fly the upgraded helicopter.

Helicopters of Russia CEO Andrey Boginsky said Mi-28UB is to be dispatched to Syria for testing.

Mi-28UB is a combat and training configuration of the attack helicopter Mi-28N Night Hunter, which began to be developed in 2010. Dual control is one of its key features. Although it is meant primarily for training pilots, it has retained all attack capabilities and can be used to attack enemy facilities and vehicles.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/961339

But the military is also considering the purchase of the more sophisticated variant, dubbed Mi-28NM. According to Boginsky, if the contract is approved soon, first deliveries could begin in 2018.
The NM version made its first flight in October 2016. It is outfitted with a new radar and flight control system as well as improved avionics. The helicopter has a new movable 30-mm gun mount that enables the use of precision weapons, including guided missiles. It also has increased speed, thanks to new composite main rotor blades.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-combat-helicopters-increase-sophistication?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170911_AW-05_658&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000001576407&utm_campaign=11647&utm_medium=email&elq2=6e67d086f0944e12ae2111f7ff3d3aeb
In time, some of them may be deployed on ships as well, like the Apaches in the RN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Naval_operations_and_Libya https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2014/july/31/140731-us-apaches-rfa-cardigan-bay
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/army-apaches-all-at-sea-on-ark-royal/

Tsavo Lion wrote:

But the military is also considering the purchase of the more sophisticated variant, dubbed Mi-28NM. According to Boginsky, if the contract is approved soon, first deliveries could begin in 2018.
The NM version made its first flight in October 2016. It is outfitted with a new radar and flight control system as well as improved avionics. The helicopter has a new movable 30-mm gun mount that enables the use of precision weapons, including guided missiles. It also has increased speed, thanks to new composite main rotor blades.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-combat-helicopters-increase-sophistication?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170911_AW-05_658&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000001576407&utm_campaign=11647&utm_medium=email&elq2=6e67d086f0944e12ae2111f7ff3d3aeb
In time, some of them may be deployed on ships as well, like the Apaches in the RN. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Naval_operations_and_Libya  https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2014/july/31/140731-us-apaches-rfa-cardigan-bay
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/army-apaches-all-at-sea-on-ark-royal/

Buddy I am re-writing your article. Don't mind.

But the military is also considering the purchase of the more sophisticated variant, dubbed Mi-28NM. According to Boginsky, if the contract is approved soon, first deliveries could begin in 2018.
The NM version made its first flight in October 2016. It is outfitted with a new radar and flight control system as well as improved avionics. The helicopter has a new movable 30-mm gun mount that enables the use of precision weapons, including guided missiles. It also has increased speed, thanks to new composite main rotor blades.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/russian-combat-helicopters-increase-sophistication?NL=AW-05&Issue=AW-05_20170911_AW-05_658&sfvc4enews=42&cl=article_1&utm_rid=CPEN1000001576407&utm_campaign=11647&utm_medium=email&elq2=6e67d086f0944e12ae2111f7ff3d3aeb

In time, some of them may be deployed on ships as well, like the Apaches in the RN.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_Apache#Naval_operations_and_Libya

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2014/july/31/140731-us-apaches-rfa-cardigan-bay

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/defence-helicopter/army-apaches-all-at-sea-on-ark-royal/

Now see its 10 times easier to read!

Air Recognition‏ @AirRecognition 22h22 hours ago

.@RusHeliCo exports first Mi-28NE w/ new on-board DAS https://www.airrecognition.com/index.php/archive-world-worldwide-news-air-force-aviation-aerospace-air-military-defence-industry/global-defense-security-news/global-news-2017/september/3749-russian-helicopters-exports-first-mi-28ne-with-new-on-board-das.html …


Russian Helicopters holding has exported the first batch of the Mi-28NE attack helicopters equipped with an on-board defensive aids suite. The newest system is installed to increase combat survivability and is designed to protect the machine from damage by heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles, the holding’s press service reported.

Russian Helicopters exports first Mi 28NE with new on board DAS 640 001Two Mi-28NE attack helicopters, the one behind most probably belonging to Algerian Air Force

In addition, the helicopter carries a modernized set of communication equipment, which provides radio communications with other aircraft and ground control points, as well as intercom telephone communications between the two pilots.

"The delivery of the Mi-28NE export batch is a significant event for the holding, as these machines set new standards in the world market of attack helicopters. I’m sure that the Mi-28NE will prove to be effective in performing real combat missions, which will undoubtedly increase the interest of potential customers to the helicopter," said Andrei Boginsky, CEO of Russian Helicopters.

For now, the Mi-28NE attack helicopter export variant has been ordered by Algeria (42) and Iraq (40).


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKVK8KYXcAAU_GM.jpg

Russia’s advanced helicopter trainer ready for serial production

Russia’s cutting-edge Mil Mi-28UB combat training helicopter is ready for serial production

ROSTOV-ON-DON, October 4. /TASS/. Russia’s cutting-edge Mil Mi-28UB combat training helicopter is ready for serial production in Rostov-on-Don in south Russia, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Wednesday.

"The enterprise has mastered serial production and the helicopter is ready for it and a contract for its serial production is already available," the deputy defense minister said after visiting the Rostvertol enterprise, part of Russian Helicopters Group.

The first eight helicopters the Russian Defense Ministry will get in 2017 are intended to be delivered to military units in Pushkin, Korenovka and Torzhok for crew training, he said.

The deputy defense minister also viewed the enterprise’s production capacities for the manufacture of Mi-28N Night Hunter combat helicopters and also Mi-26 rotocraft.

The Mi-28UB is the combat training modification of the Mi-28N Night Hunter attack helicopter. The rotocraft is equipped with a dual control system. While the new helicopter is designed for pilots’ training, it retains all the attack capabilities and can be used to strike facilities and hardware.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/969003

The first serial Mi-28UB helicopters for Russia's VKS

The photo of two Mi-28UB helicopter training helicopters published by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation from the first batch of helicopters of this modification built for Rostekert JSC (part of the Russian Helicopters JSC) in Rostov-on-Don.



Recall that in April 2016, the Ministry of Defense of Russia entered into a contract with Helicopters of Russia JSC for the serial delivery of the first 24 Mi-28UB helicopters by the end of 2018. In August 2017, the press service of Russian Helicopters reported that by the end of 2017, the first eight helicopters under this contract should be transferred to the Russian Air Force, and that the first two helicopters have already been built and are being tested.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2882613.html

How would a state of the art Russian chopper like this fare against a good/very good fighter jet?

I know we're told that jets are far faster, more powerful etc, with a much greater range.
But we're also told how important missiles are today. How fully laden could this chopper (or a larger one) be in missiles vs a good jet?

Choppers could use natural and man made terrain to hide, defend itself or evade attacks.
But I'd imagine that in wide spaces and at altitude the chopper would be at a considerable disadvantage. However, at lower level... perhaps the chopper could use some clever techniques?

Has anyone seen and recent reports on this or have any views?

Firebird wrote:How would a state of the art Russian chopper like this fare against a good/very good fighter jet?

I know we're told that jets are far faster, more powerful etc, with a much greater range.
But we're also told how important missiles are today. How fully laden could this chopper (or a larger one) be in missiles vs a good jet?

Choppers could use natural and man made terrain to hide, defend itself or evade attacks.
But I'd imagine that in wide spaces and at altitude the chopper would be at a considerable disadvantage. However, at lower level... perhaps the chopper could use some clever techniques?

Has anyone seen and recent reports on this or have any views?

0 chances against a fighter. Unless the fighter's pilot is stupid.

A better question would be comparing a choper and a Su-25 for strike role and vehicle destruction and their survivability on a modern battlefield.

The first batch of Mi-28UB serial helicopters is ready for transfer to the Ministry of Defense of Russia

Helicopters of Russia JSC (part of Rostekh State Corporation) reported on October 19, 2017 about the readiness of the first batch of combat-training helicopters Mi-28UB for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. Machines passed the whole complex of factory tests. The first helicopters are planned for transfer to the military department in November 2017.


One of the combat-training helicopters Mi-28UB (number 01 "white") from the first batch of helicopters of this modification, built for the Russian Civil Aviation Committee at Rostvertol JSC (part of the Helicopters of Russia JSC). Rostov-on-Don, 10/19/2017 (with) Evgeny Baranov / JSC "Helicopters of Russia"


The main difference between the Mi-28UB is a dual control system that allows to fly a helicopter both from the cockpit of the pilot-commander of the crew and from the cockpit of the pilot-operator. Due to this, it is possible to train military pilots who need a practice of flying on "Night Hunters". In addition, in combat conditions, in the event of an abnormal situation, the control of the car can be taken over by the second crew member.

The helicopter also has a mock-up simulator, which allows simulating the pilot's failure in flight and improving the learner's training in a crisis situation.

"We are pleased to announce the readiness of the first batch of Mi-28UB helicopters.Of course, we are constantly working on improving the Mi-28 helicopter taking into account its application in Syria.The appearance of the combat training version opens almost unlimited possibilities in improving the Mi-28N pilots training system. I note that the possibility of training not on a simulator, but on a real combat helicopter, is a great advantage of our military pilots in comparison with colleagues from other countries. In the near future, the transfer of Mi-28UB to representatives of B CS, "- said Andrei Boginsky, the general director of the holding company" Russian Helicopters ".

The first prototype Mi-28UB was manufactured by Rostvertol. After the completion of a large-scale factory and state testing program, at the end of 2015 the helicopter was put into serial production.

The Mi-28UB is equipped with a modernized integrated complex of onboard radioelectronic equipment. The use of this complex allows for effective search, detection, detection and defeat of ground and air targets.

To ensure the necessary ergonomic parameters of crew workplaces, the fuselage structure of the helicopter was changed. The Mi-28UB expanded the cabin, increased the area of ​​armored glazing and improved the view from the operator's workplace. To improve combat survivability, the Mi-28UB installed the newest on-board defense complex.


On the bmpd side, we recall that in April 2016, the Russian Ministry of Defense entered into a contract with Helicopters of Russia JSC for the serial delivery of the first 24 Mi-28UB helicopters to the Russian military aerospace industry by the end of 2018. Construction of helicopters of the Mi-28 family is carried out at Rostvertol JSC (part of the Helicopters of Russia JSC) in Rostov-on-Don. In August 2017, the press service of Russian Helicopters reported that by the end of 2017, the first Russian military helicopter should be transferred to the first eight Mi-28UB helicopters under this contract, and that the first two helicopters had already been tested at that time.

At present, cars with on-board numbers "01 white", "06 white", "15 red" and "215 blue" are identified from the first production batch of Mi-28UB helicopters built.





https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2905178.html

AlfaT8 wrote:I was looking up rocket systems in the Apache and found out about the BAE systems APKWS guidance package for the Hydra-70 and wondered whether Russia had an equivalent system and found the Ugroza guidance package for the S-5, S-8 and S-13, but noticed that they all had different sizes and wondered how Ugroza could be compatible, but more importantly i also noticed that compared to the Hydra-70 the Russian systems don't come close to it's range of 8-10km.
So what's going on here, technical or doctrinal issue??

looks like one of reasons is range of missile alone. S-8 KOM according to Rosobronexport is 4000m max (max speed 610m/s) wiki says effective range of Hydra is 8000m (max speed 739 m/s). APLWS was devleoped form 2002 till 2008. Russian seemed to be ready in 1999. Nothing found about any updates.

http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/aerospace-systems/air-to-air-missile/s-8kom/


But who knows how is in reality. Only one site with Ugroza info was hobbyists (from OAO SPlav BTW) nothing official so maybe this is no yet approved for RuAF? here S8.KOR range si 8000m as well.

http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/ugroza/ugroza.shtml

The effective range of a rocket is determined by its ability to land within a distance of the target aimed at....

The ballistic range is the distance the rocket will land when fired.

Without guidance such rockets are fired over very short ranges.... we are talking about2-3km at mosr most of the time.

With guidance then these weapons can be lofted into the air and the guidance ensures they hit what they are being aimed at.

Most of the time the targets unguided rockets are used to engage precision is not that critical... a group of enemy troops in the open means you are hardly going to aim to hit each person. An even spread of explosive fragmentation rockets gives a good effect.

The facts are that Western missiles are very expensive so for lessor targets a cheaper lighter guided rocket makes a lot of sense for them.

The Russian missiles like ATAKA and SHTURM are not so expensive and can be used in much greater numbers, so unguided rockets can be used as unguided rockets.

Not to say Ugroza is a bad idea, but they actually have a much wider range of unguided rockets to pick from and most of the time they have guided options already.

The S-25L guided rocket has a warhead of 150kg and a flight range of 8-10km, but they also have S-24 and 122mm and 80mm rockets as well.

Now that the Mils and Kamovs have become sophisticated night and all weather capable helos and of course the Su-25 has also had improvements, guided rockets would make more sense allowing attacks from greater standoff distances with lofted launches. but their work on computer aided aiming systems suggests they prefer to keep using dumb weapons and using smart aiming instead.

AlfaT8 wrote:I was looking up rocket systems in the Apache and found out about the BAE systems APKWS guidance package for the Hydra-70 and wondered whether Russia had an equivalent system and found the Ugroza guidance package for the S-5, S-8 and S-13, but noticed that they all had different sizes and wondered how Ugroza could be compatible, but more importantly i also noticed that compared to the Hydra-70 the Russian systems don't come close to it's range of 8-10km.
So what's going on here, technical or doctrinal issue??

It is very simple to why the Hydra's are longer range than the S-8's.

The rocket fuel in Hydra's burns slow and gives a continues thrust to have high range. "Long arm doctrine" to have capability to shoot against enemies from further away.

Russian unguided rockets have short range because the rocket fuel and rocket engines are quick burning engines. The idea behind this is to not leave any smoke plumes or trails behind when the rockets land on the enemy. Giving them no indicator from which position the helicopters are coming. In situations when rockets hit enemy site they have enough time to prepare for Anti Aircraft roll with weapons they have.

That has its pros and cons obviously. The contra is the smoke created is intense for about 20-30m infront of the helicopter and then no smoke at all. Short range but from 2km hardly visible for the enemy even under clear weather, because smoke does not stay for long.

The Ministry of Defense of Russia signed a contract for the installation lot of Mi-28NM helicopters

As the newspaper "Krasnaya Zvezda" reported on December 17, 2017 in Yury Avdeev's article "Helicopter Guard: Improved Version", the Ministry of Defense of Russia entered into a state contract with the holding company "Helicopters of Russia" for the production of the installation batch of new Mi-28NM helicopters. According to the terms of the contract, the first two cars will be manufactured before the end of 2018.

- The shape of the Mi-28NM is significantly different from the basic version of the Mi-28N helicopter. First of all, the functionality of the combat vehicle was improved by changing the ergonomics of the cockpit and installing a backup helicopter control system in the cockpit of the pilot operator. The car purchased a modified fuselage, upgraded engines, on-board radio electronic equipment and sight-sighting system, a new auxiliary power unit, communications equipment with unmanned aerial vehicles, "said Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov.

With the novelty, as they say, live and more detailed the Deputy Minister of Defense got acquainted even during the recent visit of "Rostvertol". He was shown her in the workshop of the plant, told about the work done, the test results and plans for further improvement of the machine.

Each of the constructive or technical innovations significantly changes the possibilities of the helicopter for the better. For example, the installation of new high-powered engines on the Mi-28NM allowed to increase the flight performance of the helicopter. In comparison with the classic, the so-called "Night Hunter", the volume of fuel tanks has been increased, due to which the range of the new modification has increased.

Among the advantages of the novelty - the resistance to combat damage, achieved through the use of new materials and design solutions. The rotor blades of the helicopter are made of composite materials, which, according to the developers, can withstand the impact of projectiles with calibres up to 30 mm.

All offers of factory workers, the possibilities of a new modification were carefully studied in the military department. The result of this work was the signing of the contract.

"The survivability and combat effectiveness of the new machine have significantly increased," the Deputy Defense Minister noted, commenting on the signed contract. - The helicopter received a laser on-board defense complex and a new weapon control system that allows the use of new types of airborne weapons with a radar and laser guidance system at greater distances.

Yuriy Borisov emphasized that the Mi-28NM is planning to install a prospective helmet-type targeting and guidance system that, together with a supersonic radar station, will significantly improve the combat effectiveness of the aviation complex in all weather conditions.

"We decided that further contracting for the" twenty-eighth "cars will be conducted in favor of the Mi-28NM," the Deputy Minister of Defense summed up.

On the bmpd side, recall that the prototype OP-1 of the modernized Mi-28NM combat helicopter ("Article 296", Rocket "Avangard-3") was built in 2015 at Rostvertol JSC. "The OP-1 test in hover mode was started at JSC "Moscow Helicopter Plant named after ML Mil (July 29, 2016), and a full flight test - October 12, 2016.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3010717.html

How would a state of the art Russian chopper like this fare against a good/very good fighter jet?

I know we're told that jets are far faster, more powerful etc, with a much greater range.
But we're also told how important missiles are today. How fully laden could this chopper (or a larger one) be in missiles vs a good jet?

Choppers could use natural and man made terrain to hide, defend itself or evade attacks.
But I'd imagine that in wide spaces and at altitude the chopper would be at a considerable disadvantage. However, at lower level... perhaps the chopper could use some clever techniques?

Has anyone seen and recent reports on this or have any views?

Despite what you see in a video game a helicopter is at a huge disadvantage against a fighter.

A fighter has the speed to come or go and the helicopter can just watch.

The fighter has a dedicated air to air radar that sees to great ranges and also has WVR and BVR missiles that can reach targets from extended ranges.... including low flying hovering targets.


Any fighter pilot will stay high and fast and engage the helo from a distance... the helo would not be able to do anything about it as it is armed with WVR missiles at best.

Even if you arm a Ka-52K with an R-77 it will have limited range as it will be fired from low speed and not very high altitude... it will have less than half the range of the same missile fired from a fighter at speed and altitude.

Most fighters would also carry more AAMs than a helicopter could carry too.

Even a CAS aircraft would be serious trouble for a helo with its powerful cannon though a modern helo with radar and cannon might be more of a problem... especially when a CAS aircraft does not have radar or powerful AAMs.

Mi-28N in Syria

Cyberspec wrote:Mi-28N in Syria

Anyone want to point out the fact that the cockpit lighting and instruments are dead still? (The altitude gauge is on zero, so we can assume it is getting no power. Either that or they are actually at sea level)
Either the video is superimposed over the screen with some touching up done to it, or the MFCD can play back old footage.

Interesting if the latter were true, but I am a bit dubious.

In a somewhat unrelated note, I don't know what version of the Mi-28 they have the the video, but the countermeasures panel has clearly changed.

They have video recording capability... perhaps that was a case of playing the video footage on the ground to some ground crew to show them what they just did... and the ground crew videoed it to show their friends...

That would be a hell of a lot safer than the gunner in the helo holding a camera videoing the attack while supposedly targeting those vehicles...

GarryB wrote:They have video recording capability... perhaps that was a case of playing the video footage on the ground to some ground crew to show them what they just did... and the ground crew videoed it to show their friends...

That would be a hell of a lot safer than the gunner in the helo holding a camera videoing the attack while supposedly targeting those vehicles...

Didn't Soviet fighters have gun cameras in WWII that were used to confirm if a pilot had actually killed an enemy plane?

GarryB wrote:They have video recording capability

That's all well and good. More than believable. Though, my point was that, interestingly, neither the altimeter, nor the other MFCD are displaying info. Usually, once the batteries have been switched on, some basic, analogue instruments fire up with it. And, depending on the aircraft, you would have all MFCDs fire up as well.

Notice, also, the clock (bottom right of the active MFCD) is still. Perhaps the first, most basic instrument you'd expect to get power. Kind of like the various accessories you get when you notch up the key in your car, just before ignition.

The other red flag I get is that the video chops and changes between a number of engagements. Does this mean that the gunner footage was retrieved from the aircraft data storage, edited on a computer, then shoved back into the helicopter for playback purposes.
$16 million VCR

never the less. I am just pointing this out because I noticed it in the background and enjoy the odd debunking here and there. not because I have any particular angle I am trying to push.

Firebird wrote:How would a state of the art Russian chopper like this fare against a good/very good fighter jet?

I know we're told that jets are far faster, more powerful etc, with a much greater range.
But we're also told how important missiles are today. How fully laden could this chopper (or a larger one) be in missiles vs a good jet?

Choppers could use natural and man made terrain to hide, defend itself or evade attacks.
But I'd imagine that in wide spaces and at altitude the chopper would be at a considerable disadvantage. However, at lower level... perhaps the chopper could use some clever techniques?

Has anyone seen and recent reports on this or have any views?

It wouldnt fare. MiG-21BiS can and will outperform any chopper out there, thats how it goes.

Cheetah wrote:

GarryB wrote:They have video recording capability

That's all well and good. More than believable. Though, my point was that, interestingly, neither the altimeter, nor the other MFCD are displaying info. Usually, once the batteries have been switched on, some basic, analogue instruments fire up with it. And, depending on the aircraft, you would have all MFCDs fire up as well.

Notice, also, the clock (bottom right of the active MFCD) is still. Perhaps the first, most basic instrument you'd expect to get power. Kind of like the various accessories you get when you notch up the key in your car, just before ignition.

The other red flag I get is that the video chops and changes between a number of engagements. Does this mean that the gunner footage was retrieved from the aircraft data storage, edited on a computer, then shoved back into the helicopter for playback purposes.
$16 million VCR

never the less. I am just pointing this out because I noticed it in the background and enjoy the odd debunking here and there. not because I have any particular angle I am trying to push.

Good pick up. You could be right