Mi-28N Havoc: News

Hope to see Hermes missiles on it as well than.

That is good news.

It should be noted that the radars for the Mi-28N should be superior to the radar fitted to the AH-64D Apache.

The radar for the Havoc combines two antenna, one in the MMW that faces forwards and is used to detect ground targets out to 10-15km for tank sized targets and about 25km for larger objects like bridges.

MMW radar has limited range but very high resolution so the shape of the target can be determined and just on signature alone a tracked vehicle with a turret can be distinguished from a wheeled vehicle with no turret.

The other antenna uses a centimetre wave radar for use against air targets and it should be able to detect aerial targets at significantly longer ranges than any MMW radar could.

The radar of the Havoc is supposed to be able to detect an incoming stinger missile at 5-6km... which I think you will agree is pretty astounding... a Stinger end on coming at you is a circle with a diameter of about 7 cms from 5km away!

Obviously the onboard IR based sensors of the President-M system will also detect the stinger.

http://jury-tver.livejournal.com/66105.html#cutid1

Some excellent close up of Mi-28N.

Excellent close-ups indeed. Thanks for posting.
I am more inclined towards the Ka-52. But these Close-ups of the Mi-28 are very convincing.

Nice pics.

I am looking forward to seeing what the Mi-28M looks like however... will have to wait for that.

Thanks for posting... those look like live rounds with proper IR sensors and no black stripes to indicate training rounds.

I would add that amongst the photos for the Mi-28N was this photo:



You can see from the ports that the two outer side ports have the same optics which I suspect to provide stereo vision located at the nose of the aircraft.


The upper port is not transparent to visible light and is likely the port for the thermal imager, so the lower two ports will be laser target marker/range finder, and the laser sensor port. One port will emit a laser beam and the other port will detect reflections from that beam for the purposes of range finding, or detect the reflections of another laser target marker when another platform is marking a target.

This EO ball is for the pilot so having a stereo external view of the aircraft would be very valuable because it is like his head is attached to the front of the helo with a fully unobstructed view... he will be able to see what is directly below the aircraft without the cockpit or front gunner getting in his way.

The main problem is that if there is a delay the pilot will get motion sickness like you can get sometimes playing some 3D computer games... or if you watch someone else play...

TR1 wrote:http://jury-tver.livejournal.com/66105.html#cutid1

Some excellent close up of Mi-28N.

Excellent photos indeed. But I personally more like fully equipped Ka-52 with 6 underwing hard points. I find it interesting, that you could see only pilots heads in Mi-28 cabin, so crew is really well protected with body armor and bullet proof glass. I don't think Apache or Tiger crew is so well protected.

Tiger has barely any protection at all, so let's not even bring it into the discussion.

There is a video on Youtube somewhere of testing of the Mi-28 and they are firing at the side canopy rather than the front windshield (the sides are usually weaker than the front).

The gun they are using is a KPV from about 10-15 metres.

For those not familiar with the KPV, it is a 14.5 x 114mm HMG with twice the muzzle energy of a US 50 cal weapon.
The shots make the windows no longer transparent, but they don't penetrate the window... which is pretty amazing as the 14.5mm round is an anti tank round designed from the outset to penetrate armour.

Have heard reports of even small arms fire (ie 30 cal) penetrating the large side canopies of the Apache as a comparison.

The Mi-28 is designed based on experience in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

TR1 wrote:Tiger has barely any protection at all, so let's not even bring it into the discussion.

Tiger's protection is more in its electronics than in armor plates. In electronic protection Ka-52 is in pair with most modern western helicopters. Mi-28 doesn't have MAWS and DIRCM yet on the other hand Ka-52 doesn't have that strong armor.

Interesting they are working on a new radar set for the Mi-28MN...

..this would be interesting too:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://vpk.name/news/69546_rossiiskie_voennyie_obzavedutsya_shlemami_virtualnoi_realnosti.html&usg=ALkJrhjVQkwwFaJ-fYZQ0Q2m5j7iWP7Y5w

VR optics would be the ideal solution to the problem of bad situation awareness from either sitting down in the hull of a vehicle instead of high up in the turret, or indeed sitting behind small heavily armoured windows.

This is interesting too:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?rurl=translate.google.com&tl=en&u=http://vpk.name/news/68279_mai_v_2012_godu_zavershit_razrabotku_novoi_brls.html&usg=ALkJrhjrLN2P534fGqfEV4QRzo-wvcj0TQ



Regarding the usefulness of a dual band radar I think this says it all:

The mass of the dual-band radar will be no more than 55-60 pounds and will have a range of actions depending on the task - from 0.2 to 28 km in the Ka-band and up to 160 km in the X-band. It is possible to supply a single-band radar in the form. In this mass of Ka-band module is about 23 kg, and with X-band module - no more than 35 kg.

So a 23kg MMW radar on its own able to detect ground targets out to just under 30km, which will likely equate to tank sized targets detected at 14-18km or so, and bridges and buildings at 28km because of the range limitations of mmw radar range. Add a CM wave antenna to increase the antenna mass to 35kgs and you add 360 degree 160km range view of the airspace and weather around the aircraft. Of course 160km range will be large ships and large aircraft... helicopters and fighter aircraft would be less than half that, while incoming missiles might be 8-10km range detection.

This radar would be ideal above the main rotor of the Mi-28NM...

64th serial Mi-28.

TR1 wrote:

64th serial Mi-28.

How many can we expect to enter service by 2015 and by 2020?

Viktor wrote:

TR1 wrote:

64th serial Mi-28.

How many can we expect to enter service by 2015 and by 2020?

I have a suspicion after the contract for 92 birds is completed, the Mi-28NM will be ordered sometime after 2015.

I have a suspicion after the contract for 92 birds is completed, the Mi-28NM will be ordered sometime after 2015.

I am really looking forward to seeing what the Mi-28NM will look like.

AFAIK it will have the cannon ammo moved from the sides of the gun to the cheeks of the nose of the aircraft allowing a much larger load of cannon ammo to be carried and also improving aerodynamics.

I rather suspect it will also include the full radar and EO and self defence EW suite and may even get an extra weapons pylon to match the 6 on the Ka-52.

I suspect HERMES and Krisantema will make an appearance too and perhaps Ugroza as well.

Regarding the Apache being the lowest bidder... the Apache is expensive to maintain... they kept its reliability high in Desert Storm simply by tripling the spares and stores budget and replacing things the way the Soviets used to... ie part number xyz tends to fail after 200 flight hours so as a matter of routine part number xyz will be replaced every 50 flight hours... very expensive but it means the aircraft is reliable and the need for inspections is reduced. (obviously in the case of battle damage or an accident like a hard landing then parts need to be inspected and assessed as to whether they need replacement).

Some fresh news on the Mi-28 mounted radar...

• The radar has undergone significant changes involving it's power output, software and antenna suspension (Looks like the rotor vibration problem has been solved)
  
  
• 2 new modes have been added: low altitude flight + moving target selection.
  
  
• 1st phase of preliminary tests were carried out between Dec 2011 - May 2012
  
• 2nd phase started in Oct 2012 (still ongoing) - 2nd radar prototype has joined the test program (pic in the link below)
  
  
• IF the trials are successfully completed, the radar is expected to enter production
  

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/28206/#cut

That is great news...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_q_jfUoA_Js

Decent footage of Mi-28 optics @ 31:00

Something I never noticed before.

Early Mi-28Ns (some with wingtip countermeasures pods some without):

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Mil-Mi-28N/1705519/L/&sid=e4073d3cb0eb5939b4cd6a703cff89fc

Late Mi-28N:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Mil-Mi-28N/2081661/L/&sid=2a2468c8f79bd0e5361e7bfa119c305b

Extra air intakes on the engines. If I hadn't read the blurb on airliners I never would've noticed.

The round domes over the main engine intakes are vortex dust separators, but the vent that looks like an air intake at the rear side of the engines is not really an intake as the air going in there does not go through the engine... it mixes with the engine exhaust gas to cool it down and reduce the IR signature of the aircraft.

Thanks for pointing out the new top mounted intakes... I had not noticed them before.

Here from the side:

GarryB wrote:The round domes over the main engine intakes are vortex dust separators, but the vent that looks like an air intake at the rear side of the engines is not really an intake as the air going in there does not go through the engine... it mixes with the engine exhaust gas to cool it down and reduce the IR signature of the aircraft.

Thanks for pointing out the new top mounted intakes... I had not noticed them before.

Here from the side:

I guess the little box on the piston between front cabin and pitot pipes is for IFF system?

No... I think they are likely extra air data probes... likely fitted for this flight for testing the gun and the airflow around the nose of the aircraft during firing.

AFAIK the IFF system has single blade fin antennas that are quite broad...

GarryB wrote:No... I think they are likely extra air data probes... likely fitted for this flight for testing the gun and the airflow around the nose of the aircraft during firing.

AFAIK the IFF system has single blade fin antennas that are quite broad...

I guess you're right from the positioning on a piston away from the fuselage.

I rechecked few pictures and not every Nochnoy version has them also they have variations between those who are equipped with this systems, watch the pistons which go away from the fuselage something is attached to it, can't say what this could be.

This is with the attached system or maybe just something taped to it

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/3/0/7/2102703.jpg
and this without

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/7/9/2/1824297.jpg

and one without this covering of the instrument, i guess it is indeed some kind of air data system but don't now what kind of, but i guess not for direct air flow, maybe presure.

All Nr. 35 yellow
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/5/8/1/1968185.jpg

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/8/3/2087388.jpg
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/2/7/2171721.jpg

Actually if you look at two of the photos you posted you can see in the first photo that attached to the arm the sensor consists of a rod with two silver tubes at its base here pointing directly up:



While in this photo the same sensor is pointing directly at the camera



The free moving sensor basically looks like an arrow shaped piece of metal with two metal ring tubes on either side of the base... which based on the different directions they are pointing in the two photos indicate to me that in the top photo with the sensor pointing up the helo is hovering, while in the lower photo with the sensor pointing at the camera the helo is flying forward towards the camera... so it clearly does its job.

There are two other pitot tube sensors on the nose... one on either side of the nose to detect pressure and temperature and likely also air speed.

Thanks GarryB, but i now about the right Optical air data system, what i've mean is when you watch exact those two pictures you have reposted on the left measure system. There is something attached to the rod exact where it goes into the fuselage.
One picture with it and another without.

I mean this little thing, hard to see what it is.
http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/3175/tfois7pm_jpg.htm

Also i've found pictures of the cockpit 3D HD camera for training analysis after exercises.

The blue "disco-ball" looking like is the 3d camera

http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/3175/w2qamdwf_jpg.htm

And that is the picture of it, couldn't found it in bigger resolution.

http://s14.directupload.net/file/d/3175/ruxlaepw_jpg.htm


PS: the image binder is again bitchy, so i've to post them as link.