Mi-28N Havoc: News

80mm is not huge but they are long and some things they might need like batteries or water or specific ammo types... it would be amazing what you could fit in an 80mm rocket tube... the rocket weapons normally have a 5-8kg HE warhead.... and a gliding delivery drone could be launched from 10km altitude at very low velocity with a low energy rocket motor to just launch it clear of the aircraft so you could play with the weight distribution.

The heaviest 80mm rocket seems to be the S-8BM which is the concrete piercing model with a rocket weight of 15kgs and a warhead of 7.4kgs, but the S-13 rockets the S-13 T rocket which is a double warhead concrete piercing rocket is a 75kg rocket with a tandem warhead of almost 40kgs.

That would be plenty of space for all sorts of payload... they don't need a lot of velocity so you could halve the size of the rocket motor or even quarter it and fit it with folding wings to glide to the position...

they already have an enormous range of rocket types anyway including illumination and even chaff and jammer models for launching into enemy airspace ahead of attack aircraft.

But do any of you have the images of the duel rack for that new missile? I cannot find the picture anywhere. Also cannot find info on that missils.

What I don't understand is that they have been showing pictures of Hermes for ages... you can see quite detailed information about it on the KBP website.... so why are they blurring the image of it on the aircraft?

I can't remember the last time they blurred out the image of something.... if it was secret they just didn't mention it or just didn't show it.

Like the nuclear powered cruise missile or Zircon.

The Hermes seems to be a tube launched weapon that are carried four to a weapon pylon, while this 305 item appears to be a single missile in the videos... but I agree I remember seeing it on the pylon mounted in such a way that they probably could have side by side or even quad loaded them... but were only testing one missile so only had one missile mounted.

@lyle6

Nice post... pretty definitive really.... but also interesting too because Hermes is supposed to be quad mounted/carried by helicopters and Su-25 aircraft.

And that is another factor... this new weapon is good for helicopters in terms of standoff range and the safety of the helicopter from air defences, but it will be just as good for Su-25s and even swing fighters like MiG-29M2s and strike aircraft like Su-24 and Su-34 for precision strikes... perhaps twin missile mounts on Su-25s could mean 16 missiles on 8 weapon pylons... quite a potent loadout...

But of course 80mm rocket pods add versatility and flexibility... and they mentioned the capacity of the Mi-28 against enemy drones will be improved... with laser detonated HE rounds from the 30mm cannon it becomes a rather potent aircraft in that regard... 250 shots is a cheap and quick way to deal with such problems and the mobility of a helicopter would be valuable too for protecting bases but also convoys from drone attack...

more and more I dont think LMUR is product 305.

Lyles post seems official, and calls the product 305 LMUR, I think the question you and I are asking is what is Hermes in relation to LMUR.

On the face of it Hermes was supposed to be A LMUR... in the sense that Hermes is supposed to be a light missile intended to engage a range of ground and aerial targets, but as I have mentioned all the previous information about Hermes shows a tube launched missile intended to be quad loaded on helicopter and light aircraft mounts.

Also as you point out despite the blurring the missile appears to be long relatively slim, with fins at the very front and very rear with an EO port in the nose.

I agree the rack part that covers the nose of the missile is strange... the Russian laser homing Krasnopol missile fired by 152mm gun artillery has a nose cap that covers the nose mounted optical port so the round can be treated like a standard round of ammo and can be loaded into the standard ammo handler of Russian 152mm artillery vehicles. When handled the cap is never removed and it is designed to be ejected in flight, while the US equivalent Copperhead the nose port has to be repeatedly checked to make sure there is no damage or dirt on the seeker window while handling and loading... it has to be loaded manually...

Considering the missile is supposed to be a lock on after launch weapon with a datalink I would think a half cover that is transparent in its centre to allow the missile to see forward over a narrow field of view could be used and when in flight as it approaches its target area it ejects the whole cover and gets ideal visibility to find and engage the target wouldn't be that hard... or maybe the cover is part of a cooling system to reduce the temperature of the optics and lens port to make it see better when launched... who knows...

I wonder when they will lift the secrecy regarding this weapon....

So did they just removed the nose antenna or simply moved it elsewhere?

The black nose thimble was a command antenna for controlling Shturm and later Ataka command guided ATGMs.

The newer Ataka missiles now use laser beam riding guidance because it is simpler and cheaper and harder to interfere with, while the new replacement Krisantema use laser beam riding and radar homing options.

The BMPT also uses the laser guided Ataka missiles though I would think the Hinds will continue to use up old stocks of Shturm and Ataka missiles as they were cheap and certainly accurate enough for most jobs.

They had a small patrol boat that also had Shturm missiles... its guidance thimble was mounted up on the mast of the boat... a useful weapon to get targets to stop by force out to about 5km range.

Should mention regarding the LMUR missile being discussed previously the new Baikal missile that is ground launched with a range of 15km seems to have the same physical shape as this blurred image on the Mi-28NM... which makes sense because a long range optically guided missile that could climb up and find a target and then dive down on it to attack it would be rather useful for ground forces as well as attack aircraft (drone, rotary, and fixed wing).

The initial problem was quality of optics and all weather performance from a sensor that is essentially a single use item.

Javelin for instance is enormously expensive for what it is because the thermal sensor in the nose of the missile has to be good enough to get a decent view of the battlefield in flight to find and identify targets, but be cheap enough to be expendable.

It was not cheap.

New QWIP chips could be stamped out like CCD chips in digital cameras and cover the near IR range for all weather day night use and be cheap enough to be used in enormous numbers.

The thing is that 15km range... diving top attack IIR seeker and presumably two way data link... this could also be Morfei as an air to air missile and ground to air missile and ground to ground and air to ground and also at sea a CIWS self defence missile.

The drawing in the ATGM thread... ie:



Seems to have the same profile as the blurred out missile on the Mi-28NM...

But I generally hate how their helicopters look, especially the Mi-8/17 derivatives.

Actually I quite like the Mi-8 and Mi-17 design... especially the model with the flat ramp rear doors... it is vastly superior to the Black Hawk which only has side doors so it can't carry light vehicles and it slows down the troops getting on and getting off in a combat situation only being able to use the side doors.

The front of the helo is explained for visibility...

What helicopter in its weight class is more aerodynamic and how much of a difference would it even make for such an aircraft type?

Making military equipment look pretty is the definition of what is wrong with the west... being good at what they do is what makes them look good.

Russia’s upgraded Mi-28NM gunship gets next-generation missile armament

The Mi-28NM attack helicopter’s integration into the single information and reconnaissance digital space on the battlefield boosts the gunship’s combat efficiency, the chief designer stressed

MOSCOW, May 18. /TASS/. The latest Mil Mi-28NM attack helicopter has received next-generation missile and rocket armament, Chief Designer of the Combat Helicopters Program at the Mil and Kamov National Helicopter Center (part of the Russian Helicopters Group within the state tech corporation Rostec) Vitaly Shcherbina told TASS on Tuesday.

"In the course of joint work, we focused on expanding the range of air-launched weapons of the helicopter’s airborne armament as the basic area of improving Mi-28N baseline helicopters. For the purpose of solving this task, the airborne armament of the Mi-28NM embraced next-generation round-the-clock missiles, including multirole munitions allowing the gunship to strike targets without entering the area of the enemy’s effective air defenses, and also next-generation rockets of a broad range of their employment and enhanced capacity, as well as bombing weapons of various caliber," he said.

The Mi-28NM attack helicopter’s integration into the single information and reconnaissance digital space on the battlefield boosts the gunship’s combat efficiency, the chief designer stressed.

"In this case, the helicopters operate as part of a reconnaissance and strike system and are capable of automatically getting updated information on the enemy and the combat environment in the designated area through information networks from reconnaissance systems, including unmanned aerial vehicles," Shcherbina said.

A new light multipurpose missile has proven its worth in the course of its operation, the chief designer stressed.

"The trials of the Mi-28NM helicopter armed with new multi-functional missiles have confirmed the armament’s high efficiency. Employing the missile as part of the system of information support from a reconnaissance drone and an automated command post created by the Mil and Kamov National Helicopter Center on its own initiative is an important area of boosting the missile’s efficiency," Shcherbina said.

"The comprehensive use of this missile together with the sources of information on the enemy and the combat environment in the designated area will allow the crew to deal with the issues of optimizing the characteristics of a flight to the area of combat employment in real time, namely to choose the parameters of launching an attack on a target (the path, speed and altitude of the helicopter’s flight and the level of firing a missile) in the automated mode," the chief designer said.

The gun armament of the Mi-28NM attack helicopter has also been upgraded, he said. "Quite a large amount of work was carried out on the Mi-28NM to reduce the gun assembly’s weight and dimensional characteristics and the drive control is now digital and more reliable," Shcherbina noted.

The Mi-28NM gunship performed its debut flight on October 12, 2016 and is an upgraded version of the Mi-28N combat helicopter. The Mi-28NM has a dual control system. As compared to the Mi-28N where the operator in the front cabin was limited in piloting capabilities, the upgraded version offers the possibility of its full-fledged control from any cabin.

The new gunship has received a mast-mounted radar, a new sighting and piloting navigation system and an improved radar station. The Russian Helicopters Group announced on June 27, 2019 that it had signed a contract with Russia’s Defense Ministry on the delivery of 98 Mi-28NM attack helicopters to the troops in 2020-2027.

Mi-28NM gunship capable of interacting with kamikaze drones

The latest Mi-28NM attack helicopter is capable of interacting with kamikaze drones, the chief designer said.

"The inclusion of kamikaze drones in the gunship’s airborne armament is one of the areas of interaction between Mi-28NMs and UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles]," Shcherbina said.

Based on this scheme, a Mi-28NM attack helicopter can launch one or several kamikaze drones from its board when it enters the designated area, the chief designed explained.

"Upon detecting enemy targets, the helicopter’s crew issues target acquisition and exercises control of their destruction," Shcherbina specified.

A Mi-28NM gunship can also interact with other types of drones, the chief designer stressed.

"The technical assignment for the R&D work on creating the Mi-28NM combat helicopter stipulates automated interaction with Korsar and Forpost-R medium-range drones both through an army aviation automated command post and directly between the helicopter and the drone," he explained.

"Automated interaction between Mi-28NM helicopters and various reconnaissance drones will help monitor the designated area without entering the enemy’s effective air defenses, provide accurate target acquisition and exercise control of the combat employment of next-generation light multi-purpose missiles in real time, and also re-transmit telephone and telecode messages between interacting helicopters, aircraft, aircraft platforms and ground-based command posts in the designated area of combat operations," the chief designer said.

https://tass.com/defense/1290957

Are they talking about launching new types of kamikaze drones from rocket pods as in talking about gunship's armament? And are the rocket pods used on the Mi-28nm same length and diameter size as the ones used on ka-52 and if so the ka-52 can carry 6 pods that have 25 tubes, so launching 150 kamikaze drones as an option?

I would assume some of the kamikazi drones will be carried in the new rocket pod designs with 122mm, 80mm and perhaps 57mm rocket tubes.

I suspect they could carry all rocket pods, though I suspect the outer wing pylons on the Kamov will be reserved for MANPAD type air to air missiles like Igla-S and Verba.

Would also expect they might carry rocket pods on two weapon pylons for up to 50 x 80mm rockets, together with anti armour or air to ground rockets, or gunpods.

Have shifted the off topic discussion of aesthetics to this location:

https://www.russiadefence.net/t8518-beauty-in-the-design-of-weapons

Note I have given you to first post in the thread Daniel, as you brought up the topic, so you can edit the first post and change the thread title to anything you like and can edit your first post to outline the parameters of the discussion.

Being in the general discussion section on military history you can talk about any aircraft designs you like through history.