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Austin wrote:The export model S-300V4 ( Antey-2500 ) has range of 350 km , The Russian S-300V4 has range of 400 km
Where did you read that Austin? (as I read 350km is the furthers range Russian PVO troops are able to achieve)
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S-300V Army SAM System
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
Where did you read that Austin? (as I read 350km is the furthers range Russian PVO troops are able to achieve)
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
Viktor wrote:Austin wrote:The export model S-300V4 ( Antey-2500 ) has range of 350 km , The Russian S-300V4 has range of 400 km
Where did you read that Austin? (as I read 350km is the furthers range Russian PVO troops are able to achieve)
https://www.russiadefence.net/t410p225-s-400-500-news#14600
Werewolf- Posts : 5927
Points : 6116
Join date : 2012-10-24
Austin wrote:Viktor wrote:Austin wrote:The export model S-300V4 ( Antey-2500 ) has range of 350 km , The Russian S-300V4 has range of 400 km
Where did you read that Austin? (as I read 350km is the furthers range Russian PVO troops are able to achieve)
https://www.russiadefence.net/t410p225-s-400-500-news#14600
How are you finding posts so quick with this awkward search tool?
Austin- Posts : 7617
Points : 8014
Join date : 2010-05-08
Location : India
Werewolf wrote:Austin wrote:Viktor wrote:Austin wrote:The export model S-300V4 ( Antey-2500 ) has range of 350 km , The Russian S-300V4 has range of 400 km
Where did you read that Austin? (as I read 350km is the furthers range Russian PVO troops are able to achieve)
https://www.russiadefence.net/t410p225-s-400-500-news#14600
How are you finding posts so quick with this awkward search tool?
Have some luck with Google
rambo54- Posts : 163
Points : 165
Join date : 2014-04-01
S-300VM is going to Egypt
http://armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2014/0924/123025818/detail.shtml
http://armstrade.org/includes/periodics/news/2014/0924/123025818/detail.shtml
Anas Ali- Posts : 65
Points : 112
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 36
Location : Egypt
Does anyone knows the specs of the 9P82 & 9P83 CW Illuminator specs ??
i really cant find any info about them regarding range - altitude - power - number of targets - etc..
i really cant find any info about them regarding range - altitude - power - number of targets - etc..
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-18
Location : Bay Area, CA
Can't say I do... However, I assume that the system is much more reliant upon the separate radar systems, and hence this TELAR-based radar system isn't very crucial.... If you can find the specifications of the *overall system*, than you will know how ell it can perform.... That being said, you might be better off looking for a technical (manufacturer?) page on the TELAR to find out.
Anas Ali- Posts : 65
Points : 112
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 36
Location : Egypt
i already have every little detail on the system with all the radar and missile but these CW Illuminator are a mystery !
i cant find any info about them
so here is my last resort
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
I got nothing either nor have I ever even seen any.
Mike E- Posts : 2619
Points : 2651
Join date : 2014-06-18
Location : Bay Area, CA
Now that Viktor has stated his thoughts, I don't think you'l find anything on it... But, like I said, the illuminator isn't as crucial as the more important systems that *are* well-documented.Anas Ali wrote:
i already have every little detail on the system with all the radar and missile but these CW Illuminator are a mystery !
i cant find any info about them
so here is my last resort
Anas Ali- Posts : 65
Points : 112
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 36
Location : Egypt
Mike E wrote:Now that Viktor has stated his thoughts, I don't think you'l find anything on it... But, like I said, the illuminator isn't as crucial as the more important systems that *are* well-documented.Anas Ali wrote:
i already have every little detail on the system with all the radar and missile but these CW Illuminator are a mystery !
i cant find any info about them
so here is my last resort
i know it not as important as the big radars but i have this deep curiosity about these illuminators and i wont rest until i found info about them
GarryB- Posts : 40487
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Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
If Viktor can't help, that leaves Medo, Mindstorm and SOC.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
Anas Ali wrote:Does anyone knows the specs of the 9P82 & 9P83 CW Illuminator specs ??
i really cant find any info about them regarding range - altitude - power - number of targets - etc..
As you know it's different for, let's say, nonexportable variants and Antej-2500.
But for export-grade S-300V variants, all I have heard is that it has a 10 kW to 12 kW CW illumination power. I think it would be X-band. The antenna looks like twist-polarization, folded aperture. There are two additional horn antennas—purpose unknown to me. I don't think the antenna plays a missile uplink role, for a number of reasons.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:There are two additional horn antennas—purpose unknown to me.
Oh, now I think the horn antennas may provide the illumination reference signals for the missile variants with semiactive/TVM guidance.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
The reference signal bit I mentioned is quite "obvious" (?) from the following pictures, especially from the first picture which shows the 9P83.
The waveguides with the cooling fins are the high-power waveguides that are at least involved in transmitting. It seems that the two high-power waveguides come off a splitter, with one going to the feed for the high-gain dish antenna, to generate the narrow illumination beam, and the other going to a horn to generate a wide reference beam.
The waveguide without fins should be for communication with the missile.
There are lots of questions that can be asked, and some more answers that can be given.
With respect to the number of guidance channels per illuminator, each illuminator should be able to guide multiple missiles of the semiactive/TVM guidance type against one target during the terminal phase of their trajectories.
With respect to other guidance types and the time-sharing of the illumination beam for multiple targets obvious conclusions can be made.
The waveguides with the cooling fins are the high-power waveguides that are at least involved in transmitting. It seems that the two high-power waveguides come off a splitter, with one going to the feed for the high-gain dish antenna, to generate the narrow illumination beam, and the other going to a horn to generate a wide reference beam.
The waveguide without fins should be for communication with the missile.
There are lots of questions that can be asked, and some more answers that can be given.
With respect to the number of guidance channels per illuminator, each illuminator should be able to guide multiple missiles of the semiactive/TVM guidance type against one target during the terminal phase of their trajectories.
With respect to other guidance types and the time-sharing of the illumination beam for multiple targets obvious conclusions can be made.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
Another calculation result is that for a 2 m diameter illuminator antenna diameter (just eyeballing it), and assuming a frequency of 10 GHz (X-band is between 8 GHz and 12 GHz), the real-beam beamwidth would be around 0.018 rad = 1°.
Stealthflanker- Posts : 1459
Points : 1535
Join date : 2009-08-04
Age : 36
Location : Indonesia
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
But for export-grade S-300V variants, all I have heard is that it has a 10 kW to 12 kW CW illumination power. I think it would be X-band. The antenna looks like twist-polarization, folded aperture. There are two additional horn antennas—purpose unknown to me. I don't think the antenna plays a missile uplink role, for a number of reasons.
Which antenna ? 10-12 Kw seems too high, it might be the average power of the 9S32 Radar, not the illuminator.
For illuminator i think it's a simple cassegrainian antenna with much lower power perhaps 1-2 Kw at most (as it don't need to detect anything nor countering the fourth root law) For the two waveguide antenna, i think it's yes the "uplink" Antenna to send reference signal and possibly to send mid course for GAI (S-300V use GAI-Ground Aided Inertial, not TVM or SAGG as Patriot or S-300) While other horn antenna is hmm i wonder what for.
Anas Ali- Posts : 65
Points : 112
Join date : 2013-02-12
Age : 36
Location : Egypt
its an 100% illuminator and i got new confirmation
The 9A84 and 9A85 TEL/Transloader vehicles are similar to the 9A82 and 9A83 TELARs, but lack the X-band illuminator antenna employed for missile terminal guidance.
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9A83 TELAR in deployed configuration. This image shows the elevating illuminator mast to effect. The design is intended to improve low altitude coverage, which is not a requirement for the longer ranging 9M82 missile
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-300V-TELAR-TL.html
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another source
The 9A82 and 9A83 TELARs each include high power CW illuminators for missile guidance and command uplinks, and also provide these guidance functions for the 9A84 and 9A85 TEL/Transloaders, which operate as slave TELs in the battery
http://militaryrussia.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=15136
another source cleared some info about the range of the illuminator , apparently it have 108 km range against 10m2 targets and around 72 km against 1m2 target
The 9A84 and 9A85 TEL/Transloader vehicles are similar to the 9A82 and 9A83 TELARs, but lack the X-band illuminator antenna employed for missile terminal guidance.
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9A83 TELAR in deployed configuration. This image shows the elevating illuminator mast to effect. The design is intended to improve low altitude coverage, which is not a requirement for the longer ranging 9M82 missile
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-S-300V-TELAR-TL.html
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another source
The 9A82 and 9A83 TELARs each include high power CW illuminators for missile guidance and command uplinks, and also provide these guidance functions for the 9A84 and 9A85 TEL/Transloaders, which operate as slave TELs in the battery
http://militaryrussia.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=15136
another source cleared some info about the range of the illuminator , apparently it have 108 km range against 10m2 targets and around 72 km against 1m2 target
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Join date : 2013-05-19
Read my second post.Stealthflanker wrote:Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
But for export-grade S-300V variants, all I have heard is that it has a 10 kW to 12 kW CW illumination power. I think it would be X-band. The antenna looks like twist-polarization, folded aperture. There are two additional horn antennas—purpose unknown to me. I don't think the antenna plays a missile uplink role, for a number of reasons.
Which antenna ? 10-12 Kw seems too high, it might be the average power of the 9S32 Radar, not the illuminator.
For illuminator i think it's a simple cassegrainian antenna with much lower power perhaps 1-2 Kw at most (as it don't need to detect anything nor countering the fourth root law) For the two waveguide antenna, i think it's yes the "uplink" Antenna to send reference signal and possibly to send mid course for GAI (S-300V use GAI-Ground Aided Inertial, not TVM or SAGG as Patriot or S-300) While other horn antenna is hmm i wonder what for.
Also regarding the TVM, S-300V has many different missile types.
Stealthflanker- Posts : 1459
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Join date : 2009-08-04
Age : 36
Location : Indonesia
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
Read my second post.
Also regarding the TVM, S-300V has many different missile types.
I did, pretty much agree with those two feedhorns there. Anyway S-300V only have two kinds of missiles, the 9M82 and 9M83, they shared common seekers so the guidance scheme must be the same.
Anas Ali wrote:its an 100% illuminator and i got new confirmation
another source cleared some info about the range of the illuminator , apparently it have 108 km range against 10m2 targets and around 72 km against 1m2 target
Your source did not talk about range of the illuminator but detection range of the DB-100N Semi-active seeker onboard the 9M82/9M83 missile.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
Stealthflanker wrote:Anyway S-300V only have two kinds of missiles, the 9M82 and 9M83, ...
Do you have any evidence for that?
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
Stealthflanker wrote:Anas Ali wrote:its an 100% illuminator and i got new confirmation
another source cleared some info about the range of the illuminator , apparently it have 108 km range against 10m2 targets and around 72 km against 1m2 target
Your source did not talk about range of the illuminator but detection range of the DB-100N Semi-active seeker onboard the 9M82/9M83 missile.
Stealthflanker,
An illuminator doesn't have a "range"; it is an illuminator plus a semiactive seeker combination that has a "range".
Stealthflanker- Posts : 1459
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Join date : 2009-08-04
Age : 36
Location : Indonesia
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
Do you have any evidence for that?
What ? Isn't it already obvious.
The S-300V used by PVO-Army use only two kinds of missile, the 9M83 and 9M82 Now perhaps 9M82M and 9M83M is being fielded but that's it There are only two kinds of missile for S-300V. We are talking about S-300V here NOT S-300P family which have plethora of missiles from 5V55, 48N6 to 9M96 family.
Or perhaps you can show me what other missile used by S-300V family ?
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
Stealthflanker,
An illuminator doesn't have a "range"; it is an illuminator plus a semiactive seeker combination that has a "range".
Do i mention anywhere about Illuminator range ? I think i clearly wrote range of the DB-100N Seeker there.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
Points : 2032
Join date : 2013-05-19
Stealthflanker wrote:
What ? Isn't it already obvious.
What's that supposed to mean?
Stealthflanker wrote:The S-300V used by PVO-Army use only two kinds of missile, the 9M83 and 9M82 Now perhaps 9M82M and 9M83M is being fielded but that's it There are only two kinds of missile for S-300V.
You did not answer my question. You are repeating your original assertion!
Stealthflanker wrote:We are talking about S-300V here NOT S-300P family which have plethora of missiles from 5V55, 48N6 to 9M96 family.
I have known both of these systems since a long time before you were born, assuming you are 26.
Stealthflanker wrote:Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
Stealthflanker,
An illuminator doesn't have a "range"; it is an illuminator plus a semiactive seeker combination that has a "range".
Do i mention anywhere about Illuminator range ?
You didn't? Read your post.
Stealthflanker wrote:I think i clearly wrote range of the DB-100N Seeker there.
A semiactive seeker doesn't have a "range" either; as I said before, it is an illuminator plus a semiactive seeker combination that has a "range", and that's what the chart is claiming to portray.
Stealthflanker- Posts : 1459
Points : 1535
Join date : 2009-08-04
Age : 36
Location : Indonesia
Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
You did not answer my question. You are repeating your original assertion!
I have known both of these systems since a long time before you were born, assuming you are 26.
Then i believe you fully aware that S-300V only use two kinds of missiles, the 9M83 and 9M82.
My copy of Rosoboronexport catalogue listed only two kinds of missiles provided for S-300V system. Now If there's any more than that Would you kindly provide your source ?
Or if literature is needed anyway then i have this :
http://pvo.guns.ru/s300v/s300v.htm
" Каждый ЗРК включал в себя:
многоканальную станцию наведения ракет 9С32;
пусковые установки двух типов (9А83 - с четырьмя ЗУР 9М83 и 9А82 - с двумя ЗУР 9М82);
пускозаряжающие установки (ПЗУ) двух типов (9А85 - для работы с ПУ 9А83 и ЗУР 9М83 и 9А84 - для работы с ПУ 9А82 и ЗУР 9М82), а также средства технического обеспечения и обслуживания.
Ракеты 9М82 и 9М83 эксплуатировались, соответственно, в транспортно-пусковых контейнерах (ТПК) 9Я238 и 9Я240."
I think it's quite obvious there that there are only two kinds of missiles for S-300V system.
Do i mention anywhere about Illuminator range ?
You didn't? Read your post.
A semiactive seeker doesn't have a "range" either; as I said before, it is an illuminator plus a semiactive seeker combination that has a "range", and that's what the chart is claiming to portray.
I was trying to explain to the other guy i quote that the figure didn't cite about "Illuminator range" But the seeker. But yes perhaps i should be more clear by adding illuminator combination as it's the source of the power.
In my view however passive seeker do have "range" Figure
Last edited by Stealthflanker on Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Adding source.)