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so i have a question: more longer the pipe is longer distance the bullet fly? cause in this case a separated pipe can be mounted at the place on rifle. or is about that longer the rifle more weight has and more recoil has? so there must be a balance between length of a rifle and recoil? a moving steel ball that reduce the recoil can be made?
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Russian Sniper Rifles
victor1985- Posts : 632
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par far- Posts : 3496
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sepheronx wrote:Splease post link of picture, you just did a forum thread.....
I tried to do that but I did not know how to do that.
George1- Posts : 18528
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par far wrote:sepheronx wrote:Splease post link of picture, you just did a forum thread.....
I tried to do that but I did not know how to do that.
par far- Posts : 3496
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George1 wrote:par far wrote:sepheronx wrote:Splease post link of picture, you just did a forum thread.....
I tried to do that but I did not know how to do that.
Thank you George, can someone please tell me, how good is that sniper rifle?
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Join date : 2014-06-19
Location : Bay Area, CA
Barrel* not pipe, and while a longer barrel does increase velocity it only does so to a point.victor1985 wrote:so i have a question: more longer the pipe is longer distance the bullet fly? cause in this case a separated pipe can be mounted at the place on rifle. or is about that longer the rifle more weight has and more recoil has? so there must be a balance between length of a rifle and recoil? a moving steel ball that reduce the recoil can be made?
GarryB- Posts : 40578
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so i have a question: more longer the pipe is longer distance the bullet fly? cause in this case a separated pipe can be mounted at the place on rifle. or is about that longer the rifle more weight has and more recoil has? so there must be a balance between length of a rifle and recoil? a moving steel ball that reduce the recoil can be made?
The longer the barrel on a rifle generally the higher the muzzle velocity of any given round, which generally equates to longer effective range.
Effective range is a combination of bullet energy and accuracy.... ie the bullet needs to be accurate enough to hit the target and moving fast enough to do serious damage to it to be deemed effective.
The longer barrel means a heavier longer gun... a heavier gun absorbs recoil better than a lighter gun.
Thank you George, can someone please tell me, how good is that sniper rifle?
Should be accurate out to about 800m or so, and the round fired should be accurate and effective at that range too.
It would be important to use sniper ammo rather than MG ammo from a PKM MGs belt link or accuracy would be average.
victor1985- Posts : 632
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oh so because a recoil has to push more mass....i tinked to that , i knew it but i thinked would look stupid to write......
but a longer rifle means more weight to be carryed by soldier and also dificult to manevrate in tight places like a stair or a lift. so that means generally are urban combat rifles and extraurban combat rifles. also a longer rifle disturb you when you walk urban or not. well whit the new concept of exoschelet would not be a big deal to carry a 50 kg weapon. that means more mechanisms and longer rifle.
so forget about speed but what is neccesary for acuracy?
but a longer rifle means more weight to be carryed by soldier and also dificult to manevrate in tight places like a stair or a lift. so that means generally are urban combat rifles and extraurban combat rifles. also a longer rifle disturb you when you walk urban or not. well whit the new concept of exoschelet would not be a big deal to carry a 50 kg weapon. that means more mechanisms and longer rifle.
so forget about speed but what is neccesary for acuracy?
Mike E- Posts : 2619
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Yes and no... For most common rifle barrels, you wouldn't gain any advantage from going 30+ inches on the barrel. The sweet-spot for long distance is 26-30.GarryB wrote:so i have a question: more longer the pipe is longer distance the bullet fly? cause in this case a separated pipe can be mounted at the place on rifle. or is about that longer the rifle more weight has and more recoil has? so there must be a balance between length of a rifle and recoil? a moving steel ball that reduce the recoil can be made?
The longer the barrel on a rifle generally the higher the muzzle velocity of any given round, which generally equates to longer effective range.
Effective range is a combination of bullet energy and accuracy.... ie the bullet needs to be accurate enough to hit the target and moving fast enough to do serious damage to it to be deemed effective.
The longer barrel means a heavier longer gun... a heavier gun absorbs recoil better than a lighter gun.
What makes a rifle accurate is a combination of like a billion different variables...
Starting with the base cartridge. - Some are inherently accurate, which are typically around the mid 6 mm range. This caliber is the most common in competition.
Then there is the round itself... How high-quality is the brass? How much powder does it contain? Are there any flaws with it?
Barrels are hugely important, and mostly depend on the quality of their drilling/grooving to be precise.
Plus, there is the chassis or stock, of which a plastic one (or anything flimsy) is going to be less accurate.
Finally, there is the scope and the guy behind the trigger.
GarryB- Posts : 40578
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so forget about speed but what is neccesary for acuracy?
For a while it was believed you needed a very long barrel to get accuracy.
Remember accuracy is just consistancy... putting bullets in the same close area repeatedly... you need good ammo, a clean rifle, a good rifle, and a good shooter... and preferably a stationary target.
Case in point the .22LR has a small cartridge case and really does not benefit from more than about 43cm of barrel. Many .22lr rifles will have a 56cm barrel, but the muzzle velocity isn't any higher in the longer barrel because the tiny .22lr round just doesn't have enough powder to effectively use the extra barrel length.
Many people buying .22s will demand the longer barrel because they think it makes them more accurate especially at longer ranges but the fact of the matter is that the shorter barrel will be just as effective and also lighter and shorter.
With larger calibres you have issues with barrel length and velocity... generally smaller calibre high velocity rounds rely on velocity for effect so longer barrels are generally preferable, while the 7.62 x 39mm AK round does not rely on velocity and can be used effectively in shorter barrels without losing too much performance.
very short barrels will create problems with muzzle flash... which is simply unburnt powder.
The best solution is a bullpup which allows reasonably long barrels with weapons that are still short and compact.
Yes and no... For most common rifle barrels, you wouldn't gain any advantage from going 30+ inches on the barrel. The sweet-spot for long distance is 26-30.
Don't really know how you can state this as different rounds have different powder capacities and burn rates. Most rifle barrels are 24 inches or less simply to keep them manageable and that max velocity is really not that useful except with anti tank rifles where a 2 metre barrel is useful.
What makes a rifle accurate is a combination of like a billion different variables...
Agreed.
Starting with the base cartridge. - Some are inherently accurate, which are typically around the mid 6 mm range. This caliber is the most common in competition.
there is no such thing as inherently accurate... make the ammo in Pakistan with zero quality control and powder weight variations of 20% and you will print all over the place.
Then there is the round itself... How high-quality is the brass? How much powder does it contain? Are there any flaws with it?
Brass quality isn't exactly very important, and powder capacity is not that important either... consistancy is more important than volume.
Barrels are hugely important, and mostly depend on the quality of their drilling/grooving to be precise.
They have to be the right calibre for the projectile and offer the right rate of twist to stabilise the round too.
Plus, there is the chassis or stock, of which a plastic one (or anything flimsy) is going to be less accurate.
Whether the barrel is free floated or glass bedded, is rather more important... but many plastic resin stocks wont warp or crack when wet unlike some wooden stocks.
Finally, there is the scope and the guy behind the trigger.
Often the key as it is the operator that selects the ammo and finds and identifies the target too.
George1- Posts : 18528
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Eastern Military District Snipers to Test New Weapons in 2015
GarryB- Posts : 40578
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Nice article, with a nice photo of an ASVK.
A bullpup 12.7 x 108mm calibre bolt action rifle...
Very nice little weapon.
A bullpup 12.7 x 108mm calibre bolt action rifle...
Very nice little weapon.
par far- Posts : 3496
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Is their any new news on the VS-121 sniper rifle?
George1- Posts : 18528
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Russian Gunmakers Design Unique Complex for Military Snipers
Russia has developed a unique sniper complex for military snipers. This information was presented by a source in the Military-Industrial Commission.
“We have recently demonstrated a new sniper complex in Klimovsk. According to the military experts who participated in the trials, our arms makers have managed to create the best sniper complex in the world. The unique development can be used to accomplish different sniper tasks at a distance of up to 1,400 meters,” the source pointed out.
According to the information available, the arms makers have also designed special munitions for the new sniper complex.
Russia has developed a unique sniper complex for military snipers. This information was presented by a source in the Military-Industrial Commission.
“We have recently demonstrated a new sniper complex in Klimovsk. According to the military experts who participated in the trials, our arms makers have managed to create the best sniper complex in the world. The unique development can be used to accomplish different sniper tasks at a distance of up to 1,400 meters,” the source pointed out.
According to the information available, the arms makers have also designed special munitions for the new sniper complex.
GarryB- Posts : 40578
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The range suggests it is in the 338 Lapua Magnum calibre...
Custom made ammo would be essential...
Custom made ammo would be essential...
TheArmenian- Posts : 1880
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You guys seem to have missed this:
The new Lobaev sniper rifle being tested at distance of 2 kms (yes, 2000 m).
The new Lobaev sniper rifle being tested at distance of 2 kms (yes, 2000 m).
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
TheArmenian wrote:You guys seem to have missed this:
The new Lobaev sniper rifle being tested at distance of 2 kms (yes, 2000 m).
No we haven't...
https://www.russiadefence.net/t3199p525-ground-forces-photosnews#81556
flamming_python- Posts : 9568
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Join date : 2012-01-31
GarryB wrote:Nice article, with a nice photo of an ASVK.
A bullpup 12.7 x 108mm calibre bolt action rifle...
Very nice little weapon.
Funny I only found out what an ASVK was just today, and now I see your post on it.
In Russia it's designated for the anti-sniper role. The OSV-98 is in the same class too.
Question is does the Russian military have counter-sniper roles? I would assume so going by the existence of such rifles, but I haven't heard of anything concrete.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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flamming_python wrote:GarryB wrote:Nice article, with a nice photo of an ASVK.
A bullpup 12.7 x 108mm calibre bolt action rifle...
Very nice little weapon.
Funny I only found out what an ASVK was just today, and now I see your post on it.
In Russia it's designated for the anti-sniper role. The OSV-98 is in the same class too.
Question is does the Russian military have counter-sniper roles? I would assume so going by the existence of such rifles, but I haven't heard of anything concrete.
They have counter-sniper systems in service, one of them saved Hugo Chavez life (when he was still alive).
Werewolf- Posts : 5931
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They should install that on Armata tanks so it can detect camoflauged snipers ,ATGM or AFV's and immiditatley deliver an occupational round.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Join date : 2013-05-20
flamming_python wrote:GarryB wrote:Nice article, with a nice photo of an ASVK.
A bullpup 12.7 x 108mm calibre bolt action rifle...
Very nice little weapon.
Funny I only found out what an ASVK was just today, and now I see your post on it.
In Russia it's designated for the anti-sniper role. The OSV-98 is in the same class too.
Question is does the Russian military have counter-sniper roles? I would assume so going by the existence of such rifles, but I haven't heard of anything concrete.
By far the main role for 12.7 mm X 108 mm rifles is ""antimaterial"", to take out a tanker, a missile launcher, etc., expending only the weight of a tiny round.
Werewolf- Posts : 5931
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Antimaterial is not really job they do, most vehicles withstand 12.7mm rounds, but they still can engage infantry behind brickwalls or with heavy body armor, in some smaller armored vehicles, but nothing like a "tanker", they can destroy jeeps but that's about it.
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
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Werewolf wrote:Antimaterial is not really job they do, most vehicles withstand 12.7mm rounds, but they still can engage infantry behind brickwalls or with heavy body armor, in some smaller armored vehicles, but nothing like a "tanker", they can destroy jeeps but that's about it.
I kind of want to see a 14.5mm caliber antimaterial rifle developed, using modern ammunition. It may prove impractical, but they should at least attempt it.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Werewolf wrote:Antimaterial is not really job they do, most vehicles withstand 12.7mm rounds, but they still can engage infantry behind brickwalls or with heavy body armor, in some smaller armored vehicles, but nothing like a "tanker", they can destroy jeeps but that's about it.
A tanker is an "fuel" tanker, not a tank; they are very "soft". Antimaterial rifles are really for use against the logistics and support, not the men.
magnumcromagnon wrote:I kind of want to see a 14.5mm caliber antimaterial rifle developed, using modern ammunition. It may prove impractical, but they should at least attempt it.
There are many Russian antimaterial rifles using dozens of round types, some even using the 30 mm X 165 mm round, many very exotic. The 14.5 mm is an overkill for the role; therefore 12.7 mm is tactically superior due to its lighter weight (round and rifle).
Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on 28/02/15, 05:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
GarryB- Posts : 40578
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I kind of want to see a 14.5mm caliber antimaterial rifle developed, using modern ammunition. It may prove impractical, but they should at least attempt it.
The south africans have a rifle that combines a 20mm cannon round and a 14.5mm round option... just change the barrels and swap between the two calibres.
the 20mm is effective to 1,600m with HE rounds being quite powerful and effective against a range of targets, but the 14.5mm barrel is used against armoured targets out to 2.5km with its higher velocity making it more effective out to much greater range than the lower velocity 20mm round.
I have often mentioned on this site that a Russian rifle using the 23 x 115mm round currently in use in the Russian military (the Mi-35Ms with chin mounted 23mm twin barrel guns use this round as standard), and the 14.5 x 114mm round of similar size could be used in the same combination.
A modern SLAP round for the 14.5mm round would have impressive performance... a 15mm calibre weapon developed in Europe in the 1990s had the ability to penetrate 40mm armour at 1km using a similar round and it was based on the 14.5mm round.
More importantly a 23 x 115mm round would have a combination of a heavy HE projectile (same projectile as fitted to the anti aircraft 23 x 152mm round fired by the ZU-23 and ZSU-23-4) but the wider calibre should allow more energy to be pushed down it meaning a SLAP round in 23 x 115mm might be even more powerful than the 14.5mm version.
Keep a barrel for both and perhaps extra smoothbore barrels for the APFSDS rounds and you would have an impressive weapon that uses standard in service ammo...
The 14.5 mm is an overkill for the role; therefore 12.7 mm is tactically superior due to its lighter weight (round and rifle).
For certain uses the fact that the 14.5mm generates twice the energy at the muzzle than any 12.7mm round makes it attractive and interesting... shoulder fired anti helo rifle anyone?
Perhaps with a backup short barrel 40mm grenade barrel for the caseless Balkan grenade launcher effective to 2.5km, or a 23 x 115mm barrel effective to 3-4km...
Huge potential.
With modern external weapon mounts having a dual feed rifle with HE and APFSDS rounds for soft and hard targets and the electronic sight and software to allow for their very different trajectories would make a very powerful weapon system...
VladimirSahin- Posts : 408
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flamming_python wrote:GarryB wrote:Nice article, with a nice photo of an ASVK.
A bullpup 12.7 x 108mm calibre bolt action rifle...
Very nice little weapon.
Funny I only found out what an ASVK was just today, and now I see your post on it.
In Russia it's designated for the anti-sniper role. The OSV-98 is in the same class too.
Question is does the Russian military have counter-sniper roles? I would assume so going by the existence of such rifles, but I haven't heard of anything concrete.
Company HQ team or teams are armed with snipers that are for anti-sniper or other role seen fit. Speaking with a friend he told me his company commander had a thermal scope which he bought, My company when in Tula started issuing a few gun sights on weapons for us. Although was not in numbers that were decent. When in Pskov though during 2011 we were being issued new sights and my issued AK-74M had a 1P63 sight. But back on sniper role, I've seen a SV-98 being used by a recon team. So they would be the closest to or even a counter sniper team or counter sniper capable role.