Military Aviation Industry: News

I can't see the MiG-31 being state of the art by 2024.... by then they will need to have a replacement in sight and I would suggest that no model PAK FA will do the job.

A lighter cheaper stealthy fighter makes sense... whether the Russians can get the UAE to pay for it or they have to pay for it themselves is another matter.

The UAE certainly made the Pantsir from a capable but basic system into a very capable system with their funding and demands that things be much improved...

GarryB wrote:I can't see the MiG-31 being state of the art by 2024.... by then they will need to have a replacement in sight and I would suggest that no model PAK FA will do the job.

A lighter cheaper stealthy fighter makes sense... whether the Russians can get the UAE to pay for it or they have to pay for it themselves is another matter.

The UAE certainly made the Pantsir from a capable but basic system into a very capable system with their funding and demands that things be much improved...

UAE's contribution to the Pantsir was the S2 model, which is extensively used by Russia now.  After various tests in Syria, Russia is upgrading it themselves.  UAE only had the initial contribution.  Now the rest is done by Russia.  Although, I imagine the UAE will be interested in further iterations and upgrades.

On that note though, being tight lipped about the MiG deal with UAE may not be a good thing, since it is possibly just paperwork agreements and nothing else.

MiG-31 will have to be eventually replaced, but with what? I don't know. I imagine Sukhoi may design it and Mikoyan may build it. I don't know.

UAE's contribution to the Pantsir was the S2 model, which is extensively used by Russia now. After various tests in Syria, Russia is upgrading it themselves. UAE only had the initial contribution. Now the rest is done by Russia. Although, I imagine the UAE will be interested in further iterations and upgrades.

The Russian AF was happy with a 12km range Pantsir and was not putting any more money into the design.

The UAE demanded upgrades of all radar and sensor systems and new missiles with new boosters to extend range to 20km.

Without the UAE (demands and money) the Pantsir system would be fairly ordinary...

MiG-31 will have to be eventually replaced, but with what? I don't know. I imagine Sukhoi may design it and Mikoyan may build it. I don't know.

Yeah and get Polikarpov to design a new trainer...

WTF would Sukhoi know about designing interceptors? Their best work... Su-15 was pretty ordinary compared with the MiG-25 and MiG-31 and the Su9 and Su-11 even more ordinary.

The replacement for the MiG-31 will be a MiG... or possibly a Tupolev variant of the Tu-160M2...

Good luck then having Mikoyan get the contract. UAC is taking full control and merging the two corporations by end of this year.

As for the Pantsir, it would have been upgraded with or without UAE in the end. UAE just speed up the process and funding, so it was good on them for that.

Although, with the Finance ministry of Russia wanting to decrease defense spending and increase the interior forces (FSB, National Guard, etc) spending, then who knows what will happen now.

Production and repair of aviation and industrial engines at PJSC "Kuznetsov"

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2887602.html

Good luck then having Mikoyan get the contract. UAC is taking full control and merging the two corporations by end of this year.

If MIG can't do it because it is being merged with Sukhoi then how can Sukhoi able to do it as they would be being merged with MiG wouldn't they?

As for the Pantsir, it would have been upgraded with or without UAE in the end. UAE just speed up the process and funding, so it was good on them for that.

No it would not.

As I explained the Russian AF was happy with the standard model Pantsir with 12km range missiles and 2A72 single barrel cannon.

The UAE demanded the new versions of the 2A38M cannon with longer life and better accuracy and the new rocket boosters for the missiles to extend range to 20km, and it demanded all new sensors instead of upgrades for all sensors because of the increase in missile range.

The result is a much better system that the Russian AF never would have demanded.

The Russian Army will likely adopt a version of it to replace Tunguska and the navy will use a version of it as well to replace Kashtan-M (though of course with Gatling guns rather than the twin barrel guns).

The Russian Army just upgraded Tunguska and the Navy upgraded Kashtan when the original Pantsir was available...

Regarding funding, the MiG-41 or what ever they call the replacement for the MiG-31 is pretty much guaranteed because the Aerospace Defence forces and the Air Force will fund it.

The Pantsir seems to have a life of its own with the SM models having a range of 40km which is quite astounding.

Pantsir is seeing upgrades from its service in Syria. So yes, it would have obtained upgrades with or without UAE.  Upgrades were shown at Army 2017

Plus, forgot to also mention that they are still working on the hypersonic missiles for Pantsir.

Like I said, without UAE money actually paying for new sensors and new missiles and systems the Air Force would not have spent the money.

As far as they were concerned a 12km range missile system was good enough because it was for use against cruise missile attack on an S-300 or S-400 battery

The system wont detect low flying cruise missiles at much more than 8-12 km anyway, so they would definitely have not spent money on 20km range missiles.

For the Army and Navy however the extra range is a bonus as it keeps threats like attack helos beyond ATGM missile range, or in the case of the navy it starts hitting incoming anti ship missiles earlier so over a specific time period it can kill more threats, which is good for mass attacks.

In many ways you could say the same thing about the Su-30MKI keeping Sukhoi on their toes and working on state of the art systems and equipment which ultimately benefited the Su-35 and PAK FA.

Obviously combat experience can be further applied to improve systems in ways no obvious to a developer... just making it easier to operate or maintain, or better able to move on the battlefield or easier to wash down or whatever.

On the production of Mi-8/17 helicopters at Ulan-Ude Aviation Plant JSC









https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2989288.html

The United Industrial Corporation Oboronprom will be liquidated

As the newspaper Kommersant writes in the article by Alexandra Djordjevic and Ivan Safronov, Oboronprom fulfilled its mission faster than expected. It will be abolished in the very near future, "the united industrial corporation Oboronprom (part of the Rostekh state corporation) will cease to exist in the near future. The company, which was engaged in the consolidation of helicopter and engine building assets, fulfilled its task, its continued existence was considered inexpedient. Its subsidiaries - the holding company Helicopters of Russia and the United Engine Building Corporation (UDK) - will be transferred to the direct management of Rostek in 2018.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3044410.html

Plans for the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft factory for 2018

According to the Khabarovsk Territory Today news agency, on January 29, 2018 in Khabarovsk on the board of the Ministry of Industry and Transport Deputy Director for Development and Regional Policy of the branch of PJSC "Company Sukhoi" KnAAZ them. Yu.A. Gagarin "Sergei Bocharov told about the results achieved in 2017 and plans of the enterprise for 2018.

As reported by IA "Khabarovsk Krai today", from January to December of last year, the Russian Air Force received 10 Su-35s and four Su-27SMs that were modernized.

- This year, the implementation of the state defense order and the provision of hardware for Russian military aircraft will continue, - said Sergey Bocharov. "In the coming year, we must supply the Defense Ministry with ten Su-35s and six modernized Su-27SMs." Under the PAK FA program in 2017, we completed the production of T-50 flight samples of the second stage, three cars were handed over to the customer for testing, and preparations for the production batch are being prepared. The program is extremely important and promising for us.

In addition, in 2017 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, ten Su-35s were manufactured and handed over to the PRC. In 2018, the neighboring country should receive the final contract of a batch of ten of the same machines. Rosoboronexport, together with the Sukhoi Company and UAC, continue to work with customers, and according to Sergei Bocharov, KnAAZ will soon receive another major foreign contract.

- In 2017, 30 Sukhoi Superjet 100 airplanes were manufactured, and in 2018 the same batch is planned, Sergei Bocharov emphasized. - The indicator of gross production in 2017 amounted to 60.3 billion rubles, of which the overwhelming majority is the share of military aircraft. The enterprise underwent deep reconstruction and modernization, currently KnAAZ is working with the UAC on the issue of loading the mechanized production facilities under the programs MS-21, Tu-160 and Tu-214.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3070207.html

George1 wrote:Plans for the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft factory for 2018

According to the Khabarovsk Territory Today news agency, on January 29, 2018 in Khabarovsk on the board of the Ministry of Industry and Transport Deputy Director for Development and Regional Policy of the branch of PJSC "Company Sukhoi" KnAAZ them. Yu.A. Gagarin "Sergei Bocharov told about the results achieved in 2017 and plans of the enterprise for 2018.

As reported by IA "Khabarovsk Krai today", from January to December of last year, the Russian Air Force received 10 Su-35s and four Su-27SMs that were modernized.

- This year, the implementation of the state defense order and the provision of hardware for Russian military aircraft will continue, - said Sergey Bocharov. "In the coming year, we must supply the Defense Ministry with ten Su-35s and six modernized Su-27SMs." Under the PAK FA program in 2017, we completed the production of T-50 flight samples of the second stage, three cars were handed over to the customer for testing, and preparations for the production batch are being prepared. The program is extremely important and promising for us.

In addition, in 2017 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, ten Su-35s were manufactured and handed over to the PRC. In 2018, the neighboring country should receive the final contract of a batch of ten of the same machines. Rosoboronexport, together with the Sukhoi Company and UAC, continue to work with customers, and according to Sergei Bocharov, KnAAZ will soon receive another major foreign contract.

- In 2017, 30 Sukhoi Superjet 100 airplanes were manufactured, and in 2018 the same batch is planned, Sergei Bocharov emphasized. - The indicator of gross production in 2017 amounted to 60.3 billion rubles, of which the overwhelming majority is the share of military aircraft. The enterprise underwent deep reconstruction and modernization, currently KnAAZ is working with the UAC on the issue of loading the mechanized production facilities under the programs MS-21, Tu-160 and Tu-214.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3070207.html

Assume they mean Su-27SM3...

franco wrote:

George1 wrote:Plans for the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft factory for 2018

According to the Khabarovsk Territory Today news agency, on January 29, 2018 in Khabarovsk on the board of the Ministry of Industry and Transport Deputy Director for Development and Regional Policy of the branch of PJSC "Company Sukhoi" KnAAZ them. Yu.A. Gagarin "Sergei Bocharov told about the results achieved in 2017 and plans of the enterprise for 2018.

As reported by IA "Khabarovsk Krai today", from January to December of last year, the Russian Air Force received 10 Su-35s and four Su-27SMs that were modernized.

- This year, the implementation of the state defense order and the provision of hardware for Russian military aircraft will continue, - said Sergey Bocharov. "In the coming year, we must supply the Defense Ministry with ten Su-35s and six modernized Su-27SMs." Under the PAK FA program in 2017, we completed the production of T-50 flight samples of the second stage, three cars were handed over to the customer for testing, and preparations for the production batch are being prepared. The program is extremely important and promising for us.

In addition, in 2017 in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, ten Su-35s were manufactured and handed over to the PRC. In 2018, the neighboring country should receive the final contract of a batch of ten of the same machines. Rosoboronexport, together with the Sukhoi Company and UAC, continue to work with customers, and according to Sergei Bocharov, KnAAZ will soon receive another major foreign contract.

- In 2017, 30 Sukhoi Superjet 100 airplanes were manufactured, and in 2018 the same batch is planned, Sergei Bocharov emphasized. - The indicator of gross production in 2017 amounted to 60.3 billion rubles, of which the overwhelming majority is the share of military aircraft. The enterprise underwent deep reconstruction and modernization, currently KnAAZ is working with the UAC on the issue of loading the mechanized production facilities under the programs MS-21, Tu-160 and Tu-214.

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3070207.html

Assume they mean Su-27SM3...

The industry does not distinguish between the different batches of Su-27 modernized, that's another nonsense more than the aircraft magazines
The three lots (Vladivostok, Dzemgui and Krymsk) are basically the same (4+generation), only in the last one they put a couple of things from the Su-35 to try, more than 10 years ago was installed in a couple of Su-27SM(1) in Akhtubinsk , and latter added in the third batch
In Russian "3" is a "Z" (Example: Ty-142M3 = Tu-142MZ), so you must write Su-27SM(3) to have no mistake

New details on the purchase of Myanmar fighters Su-30SME
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3062775.html
6 new Su-30SME for 400 million dolar.. about 67 M$ per unit

Russia to ignore request from U.S. to halt sale of 6 Su-30s to Myanmar  
http://alert5.com/2018/01/27/russia-to-ignore-requ.....o-myanmar/



http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/ru/press/news/vr_itogi_goz_2017/
Helicopters of Russia "summed up the results of the implementation of the GOZ of 2017

Holding "Helicopters of Russia" (part of the Rostekh state corporation) within the framework of a single day of acceptance of military products summed up the results of the execution of the state defense order of 2017 in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. Enterprises of the holding in the past year produced and delivered to the Russian military department 72 new helicopters.

Another 70 helicopters in 2017 were transferred to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation after major overhaul.
In addition, the Kazan Helicopter Plant delivered 5 MI-8MTV-5-1 helicopters to JSC KOMZ for further retrofitting with their EW complex.

"In 2017, the holding once again demonstrated the strict implementation of the state defense order, while in many respects we agreed with the Ministry of Defense to fulfill our obligations ahead of schedule." We began mass-produced deliveries of Mi-28UB training helicopters, mastered the modernization of the ship Ka-27, and 2018, another new project will be added to this list - we plan to supply the Ministry of Defense with the first Mi-38T transport-landing helicopter, "the deputy general director of the Russian Helicopters holding on sales of the military helicopter technical equipment Vladislav Saveliev.

Within the framework of the state defense order of 2018, the holding is planning to supply the Russian Defense Ministry with about 60 new helicopters, including more than 30 Mi-8 helicopters in the framework of formal joint decisions on early delivery.



In 2017 were delivered 72 new helicopters
In my account: 12 Ka-52 , 15 Mi-28 (7 single and 8 UB) , 5 Mi-35 , 10 Ansat-U and 3 Mi-26 (those are 45)
The other 27 could be Mi-8. Not sure if there are Ka-226 deliveies in 2017

AMCXXL wrote:New details on the purchase of Myanmar fighters Su-30SME
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3062775.html
6 new Su-30SME for 400 million dolar.. about 67 M$ per unit

Russia to ignore request from U.S. to halt sale of 6 Su-30s to Myanmar  
http://alert5.com/2018/01/27/russia-to-ignore-requ.....o-myanmar/



http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/ru/press/news/vr_itogi_goz_2017/
Helicopters of Russia "summed up the results of the implementation of the GOZ of 2017

Holding "Helicopters of Russia" (part of the Rostekh state corporation) within the framework of a single day of acceptance of military products summed up the results of the execution of the state defense order of 2017 in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. Enterprises of the holding in the past year produced and delivered to the Russian military department 72 new helicopters.

Another 70 helicopters in 2017 were transferred to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation after major overhaul.
In addition, the Kazan Helicopter Plant delivered 5 MI-8MTV-5-1 helicopters to JSC KOMZ for further retrofitting with their EW complex.

"In 2017, the holding once again demonstrated the strict implementation of the state defense order, while in many respects we agreed with the Ministry of Defense to fulfill our obligations ahead of schedule." We began mass-produced deliveries of Mi-28UB training helicopters, mastered the modernization of the ship Ka-27, and 2018, another new project will be added to this list - we plan to supply the Ministry of Defense with the first Mi-38T transport-landing helicopter, "the deputy general director of the Russian Helicopters holding on sales of the military helicopter technical equipment Vladislav Saveliev.

Within the framework of the state defense order of 2018, the holding is planning to supply the Russian Defense Ministry with about 60 new helicopters, including more than 30 Mi-8 helicopters in the framework of formal joint decisions on early delivery.



In 2017 were delivered 72 new helicopters
In my account: 12 Ka-52 , 12 Mi-28 (7 single and 5 UB) , 5 Mi-35 , 10 Ansat-U and 3 Mi-26 (those are 42)
The other 30 could be Mi-8. Not sure if there are Ka-226 deliveies in 2017

Had read that the production plan was for 16 Ka-52 per year. Not sure if it is maintained or not. Do you have overall totals for the new helo's, especially the Attack ones?

franco wrote:

AMCXXL wrote:New details on the purchase of Myanmar fighters Su-30SME
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3062775.html
6 new Su-30SME for 400 million dolar.. about 67 M$ per unit

Russia to ignore request from U.S. to halt sale of 6 Su-30s to Myanmar  
http://alert5.com/2018/01/27/russia-to-ignore-requ.....o-myanmar/



http://www.russianhelicopters.aero/ru/press/news/vr_itogi_goz_2017/
Helicopters of Russia "summed up the results of the implementation of the GOZ of 2017

Holding "Helicopters of Russia" (part of the Rostekh state corporation) within the framework of a single day of acceptance of military products summed up the results of the execution of the state defense order of 2017 in the interests of the Ministry of Defense. Enterprises of the holding in the past year produced and delivered to the Russian military department 72 new helicopters.

Another 70 helicopters in 2017 were transferred to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation after major overhaul.
In addition, the Kazan Helicopter Plant delivered 5 MI-8MTV-5-1 helicopters to JSC KOMZ for further retrofitting with their EW complex.

"In 2017, the holding once again demonstrated the strict implementation of the state defense order, while in many respects we agreed with the Ministry of Defense to fulfill our obligations ahead of schedule." We began mass-produced deliveries of Mi-28UB training helicopters, mastered the modernization of the ship Ka-27, and 2018, another new project will be added to this list - we plan to supply the Ministry of Defense with the first Mi-38T transport-landing helicopter, "the deputy general director of the Russian Helicopters holding on sales of the military helicopter technical equipment Vladislav Saveliev.

Within the framework of the state defense order of 2018, the holding is planning to supply the Russian Defense Ministry with about 60 new helicopters, including more than 30 Mi-8 helicopters in the framework of formal joint decisions on early delivery.



In 2017 were delivered 72 new helicopters
In my account: 12 Ka-52 , 12 Mi-28 (7 single and 5 UB) , 5 Mi-35 , 10 Ansat-U and 3 Mi-26 (those are 42)
The other 30 could be Mi-8. Not sure if there are Ka-226 deliveies in 2017

Had read that the production plan was for 16 Ka-52 per year. Not sure if it is maintained or not. Do you have overall totals for the new helo's, especially the Attack ones?

The number of 16 Ka-52 was in 2016, not in te other years in last decade
At the end were 8 Mi-28UB
The contract are for 24 Mi-28UB to hand over until the end of 2018. The first 8 in 2017
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2961394.html

ABout the airplanes and helicopter production under the Satate arms program, I have written the numbers in English Wikipedia, however I havent found all information about helicopters (and my time is limited)
The figures are refered to the year of manofacture (first fligth) , as some aircraft finished in november or dicember are deployed in the first months of next year to the destination unit.
Then , is necesary have a standard criterion , and the better are Plan of the State Armament Program that is normally 100% completed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Air_Force#Aircraft_deliveries


In the case of aircrafts and the Yak-130 , two batch were delivered to the deployment airbase (serial numbers 1318 to 1320 and 1401 to 1403)
The other 4 of 2017 plan (serial 1404 to 1407) are manofactured and fligth in 2017 but were not sent to any airbase
Also the next 4 Yak-130 are ready (serial 1408-1411).
Probably two or three batches will be delivered together to a new destination
Also are pending for deploy the announced 16 Su-25SM(3), that are fliyng at Kubinka since november, and several MiG-31BM of the 2017 plan

www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=472937
The Russian Defense Ministry will buy 114 more Ka-52 Alligator helicopters, the law of the deputy head of the military department Yury Borisov.
"We summed up the results for 2017, discussed plans for the next decade, we have to conclude a new contract for 114 combat helicopters," said Yury Borisov after the meeting in Arsenyev's Progress Aircraft Company. NI Sazykina (Primorsky Territory).
He asserts that the contract will be signed within the framework of the implementation of the new State Arms Program for 2018-2027.
This will be a new modification, we discussed just the details of how the designer manages to make all the necessary improvements," Yury Borisov said.
He noted that for the Ka-52 create new long-range missiles, in addition, the helicopter will receive an improved optical-sighting system.

Currently , Russian MoD has received 104 Ka-52 in 2010-2017 and the total number already contracted is 146, so the total can reach 260 units in 2027 or 2028, enough for complete squadrons in 4 brigades and 10 helicopter regiments
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/3421686
Arsenievsky Helicopter Plant, is a supplier of military helicopters Ka-52, which in the amount of 146 pieces are contracted until 2020.

Not sure how is being treated in the counts the delivery of units of pre-serial production. I have some doubts:
- It were 7 units of pre-serial production of Su-34 that seems not counted. The total number would be 114 and 136 for the number of ordered units.
- There are 10 units of pre-serial production of Su-57 that seems not counted.
- The first unit of the Tu-160 modernized seems delivered.
- It was also a contract for 3 Yak-152 to be delivered in 2017. Not sure if delivered still.
- There are 3 units of Diamond DA-42 that seems included but must pass tests still in 2018, then the aircraft would not be formally addopted still.

- It seems to be also a first contract for the delivery of 3 Mi-38. Still seems not delivered.

TR1 wrote:It is a matter of 1.) Funding 2.) production capability.
The latter is confusing. There are two places where the Yak-130 is made, Irkut, and Sokol. Irkut has been making the Algerian birds. Sokol made the first 12 batch for the RuAF, but made a statement that they might not take part in Yak-130 production for the RuAF in 2011 and 2012. Something about MOD not declaring where production would go.

Anyways since then we have seen the 55 (and possibly another ten) order from Irkut. This was delayed by price squabble. What this spells for Sokol Yak-130 production I don't know. But I think at this point, if funding is present, production is pretty swift.

This is not the only question
Russia not only purchases airplanes, also built them.
The Program of armament is a planned program for rebuilt the airforce and have a industrial plan in long term

If you want an airforce with 900 airplanes and the airplanes have a life of 30 years , then you only need to purchase 30 airplanes per year. It is so simply
It is not necesary more production for a total renovation of current fleet and also a little growth after that
Russia is capable to produce hundreds of aircraft per year, and have money enough as is a independent country that prints thier own money. But does not need to produce more airplanes.

The question is , if you produce all the airplanes in only 10 years, then you will have a problem in 20 years again, as happened in 2010-2015, with a massive obsolescence of the fleet


The production of each type of aircraft will take about 15 years, other 15 for modernization and after 30 replacement again
The production in the years 2013-2015 was faster because the most of in service airplanes were manofactured between 1985 and 1990 and needed replace urgently
In 2020 the most of soviet airplanes will have been replaced , so in the next years the production will be only enough for reach in 2025-30 the numbers that RuAF needs

The first batch of 12 Yak-130 produced in Mapo are a shit and are stored without use since 5 or 6 years ago
Russian MoD chagend the manofacturer to Irkut that have received 3 contracts of 55+12+30

eehnie wrote:Not sure how is being treated in the counts the delivery of units of pre-serial production. I have some doubts:
- It were 7 units of pre-serial production of Su-34 that seems not counted. The total number would be 114 and 136 for the number of ordered units.
- There are 10 units of pre-serial production of Su-57 that seems not counted.
- The first unit of the Tu-160 modernized seems delivered.
- It was also a contract for 3 Yak-152 to be delivered in 2017. Not sure if delivered still.
- There are 3 units of Diamond DA-42 that seems included but must pass tests still in 2018, then the aircraft would not be formally addopted still.

- It seems to be also a first contract for the delivery of 3 Mi-38. Still seems not delivered.

Prototypes and preseries are not part of the series production and are not operated by the AIr Force
In the case of "Su-34" (T-10B), the first 4 were prototypes that were not Su-34. In fact the first was only a modificated Su-27UB
The frst 4 were decomisioned and stored. Now two "pre series" continues in use operated by Sukhoy for the developement of Su-34M. After that will be retired.

There are not any Su-57 now , just T-50 , are used in the industrial program, the production starts with the first serial airplanes that will contract the Air Force

The first Tu-160M2 is not finished, will be in trials until the program is ready (new engines, etc...) and will continue in KAPO until the Tu-160M2 is ready for start the service in the airforce

AMCXXL wrote:

eehnie wrote:Not sure how is being treated in the counts the delivery of units of pre-serial production. I have some doubts:
- It were 7 units of pre-serial production of Su-34 that seems not counted. The total number would be 114 and 136 for the number of ordered units.
- There are 10 units of pre-serial production of Su-57 that seems not counted.
- The first unit of the Tu-160 modernized seems delivered.
- It was also a contract for 3 Yak-152 to be delivered in 2017. Not sure if delivered still.
- There are 3 units of Diamond DA-42 that seems included but must pass tests still in 2018, then the aircraft would not be formally addopted still.

- It seems to be also a first contract for the delivery of 3 Mi-38. Still seems not delivered.

Prototypes and preseries are not part of the series production and are not operated by the AIr Force
In the case of "Su-34" (T-10B), the first 4 were prototypes that were not Su-34. In fact the first was only a modificated Su-27UB
The frst 4 were decomisioned and stored. Now two "pre series" continues in use operated by Sukhoy for the developement of Su-34M. After that will be retired.

There are not any  Su-57 now , just T-50 , are used in the industrial program, the production starts with the first serial airplanes that will contract the Air Force

The first Tu-160M2 is not finished, will be in trials until the program is ready (new engines, etc...) and will continue in KAPO until the Tu-160M2 is ready for start the service in the airforce

I mean the first unit of the modified Tu-160 is fliying, would be also in this cathegory of prototypes and pre-serial aircrafts.

Would not be the same case of the 3 Diamond DA42? The article that confirmed its production said they must be tested in 2018. If rejected in the tests the contract would be cancelled.

Habitually in the case of the auxiliary aircrafts designed by Russian companies, the prototypes and pre-serial production are property of the companies that design and build them.

But Im not sure in the case of the combat aircrafts. Are not also these pre-serial units ordered and payed by the Russian Armed Forces? Are not the Russian Armed Forces owners of them? I have been thinking a military aircraft project born in the companies would die in the design stage without approval and order of prototypes from the Russian Armed Forces.

eehnie wrote:

AMCXXL wrote:

eehnie wrote:Not sure how is being treated in the counts the delivery of units of pre-serial production. I have some doubts:
- It were 7 units of pre-serial production of Su-34 that seems not counted. The total number would be 114 and 136 for the number of ordered units.
- There are 10 units of pre-serial production of Su-57 that seems not counted.
- The first unit of the Tu-160 modernized seems delivered.
- It was also a contract for 3 Yak-152 to be delivered in 2017. Not sure if delivered still.
- There are 3 units of Diamond DA-42 that seems included but must pass tests still in 2018, then the aircraft would not be formally addopted still.

- It seems to be also a first contract for the delivery of 3 Mi-38. Still seems not delivered.

Prototypes and preseries are not part of the series production and are not operated by the AIr Force
In the case of "Su-34" (T-10B), the first 4 were prototypes that were not Su-34. In fact the first was only a modificated Su-27UB
The frst 4 were decomisioned and stored. Now two "pre series" continues in use operated by Sukhoy for the developement of Su-34M. After that will be retired.

There are not any  Su-57 now , just T-50 , are used in the industrial program, the production starts with the first serial airplanes that will contract the Air Force

The first Tu-160M2 is not finished, will be in trials until the program is ready (new engines, etc...) and will continue in KAPO until the Tu-160M2 is ready for start the service in the airforce

I mean the first unit of the modified Tu-160 is fliying, would be also in this cathegory of prototypes and pre-serial aircrafts.

Would not be the same case of the 3 Diamond DA42? The article that confirmed its production said they must be tested in 2018. If rejected in the tests the contract would be cancelled.

Habitually in the case of the auxiliary aircrafts designed by Russian companies, the prototypes and pre-serial production are property of the companies that design and build them.

But Im not sure in the case of the combat aircrafts. Are not also these pre-serial units ordered and payed by the Russian Armed Forces? Are not the Russian Armed Forces owners of them? I have been thinking a military aircraft project born in the companies would die in the design stage without approval and order of prototypes from the Russian Armed Forces.

Tu-160 does not need prototypes as is a old Project of 80´s
The new Tu-160 is in trials at Kazan plant.
For become a Tu-160M2 a long way is necesary (new hardware and software , and new engines)
When completed as Tu-160M2 probably will be based in the training center of Long Range Aviation or in Akhtubisnk

Yak-152 and DA-42 are civil airplanes and also are very cheap airplanes

In the case of DA-42 , is form Austria and is a Project of more 15 years ago. The prototypes were in Austia in 2002. Russian Air Force it is neither the first nor the only customer.
Russia only purchases the airplanes as if you buy a car. You can drive one car before to buy, and later sign the contract and pay.
The Company can lend several airplanes for test and after the acceptance by Air Force , will be introduced in the airforce
For the moment the only airplane saw in Russia , was in the production plant in the last days of 2017


About the Yak-152, the first you can do is translate and read correctly the exact words in the news for understand what is happening:
https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3062222.html
The Irkutsk Aviation Plant will produce two prototype Yak-152 for flight tests and two (airframes) for fatigue and static tests.
In September 2015, Deputy Defense Minister Yury Borisov announced that the VKS intend to purchase 150 Yak-152, developed in the Yakovlev Design Bureau for initial training of pilots. Production of aircraft will be carried out by the Irkutsk Aviation Plant, and he and Yakovlev Design Bureau are members of Irkut Corporation

"intend to purchase" is a different thing that "to sign a contract"
with the available informatin in bmpd , I cannot suppose the contract have been signed already, for the moment the progarm is in development
However, some western media ensure that the contract is already signed and the aircraft received by the Air Force units  


The first Yak-152 with the onboard number "01/201" took off on September 29, 2016.
At MAKS-2017 Drach announced that the Yak-152 will begin state tests in the fall of 2017.
The Yak-152 is a new training aircraft for the Russian Air Force. Two Yak-152s were shown at the MAKS-2017 airshow - a plane with a number "01/201", painted gray, took part in the flight program, and the aircraft numbered "02", in a red-white-yellow coloring was shown at a static display and did not go into the air until the end of the cabin. A few more aircraft are in production in accordance with the contract for conducting research and development on the subject "Bird-BBC"

This means several more airplanes will be built for test (pre-series = final prototypes with the exact configuration wanted by customer) that will be operated for the builder.
When development program is completed by the manofacturer, the supply contract will be signed and the serial aircraft will be produced and introduced in the air force units

The case of the modernized Tu-160 and the first units of the Diamond DA42 would not be really prototypes, but yes pre-serial production.

This is something common in industrial process. When a new production begins in a factory always there is some unit of pre-serial production. Neither of both aircrafts are new designs, but the production is new and it requires some pre-serial production. It seems not that the production of the Diamond DA42 reached serial production. This is clear when it is said the units produced until now will be tested in 2018. If the prototypes and pre-serial units are not counted, neither should be the 3 units of the Diamond DA42.

Russian Defense Minister visits Novosibirsk Aviation Plant

As reported on February 19, 2018 by the Department of Information and Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation, Army General Sergei Shoigu, who visited the Novosibirsk Aviation Plant named after V.P. Chkalov, a member of the Sukhoi holding company, set a number of important tasks for his management.



In particular, the head of the military department stressed that the experience of the Syrian military campaign should be introduced as soon as possible in new aircraft, placing the quality of the products at the forefront.

"Quality, quality and quality again. This is a key criterion, "Sergei Shoigu said.

Director of the plant Sergey Smirnov reported to the Minister of Defense that the company is currently working at maximum capacity, the state contract with the military department for the delivery of Su-34 aircraft to the Air and Space Forces has been successfully carried out.

He also told the head of the Defense Ministry about the ongoing experimental design work at the plant, which will significantly increase the combat capabilities of the Su-34, which has a great modernization potential.

Sergei Shoigu stressed that it is necessary to maintain the achieved production rates, paying special attention to the professional training and retraining of the enterprise's employees.





https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3099325.html

Photo-report from the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation plant

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3117001.html