North Korea Armes Forces: News

JohninMK wrote:Pretty impressive!

Aldin Abazović
‏@Ald_Aba

Large-scale drill of #NorthKorea long-range artillery M1989 Koksan, March 25

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Video on TV http://dprktoday.com/temp/player.php?type=22&no=5374

S. Korea says North fired missile, jammed GPS systems April Fool ?

North Korea fired another short-range missile off its east coast on Friday, South Korean officials said, as regional leaders met in Washington to discuss the threat of Pyongyang's nuclear weapons programme.

It was the latest in a series of North Korean missile launches during what has been an extended period of elevated military tension on the Korean peninsula, triggered by Pyongyang's fourth nuclear test on January 6.

The launch came as the South Korean coastguard reported that around 70 fishing vessels had been forced back to port after GPS navigation issues caused by North Korean radio-wave jamming.

South Korea's defence ministry said the surface-to-air missile was fired at around 12:45 pm (0345 GMT) from the eastern city of Sondok.

The range and precise trajectory could not immediately be confirmed, a ministry official said. The South's Yonhap news agency said it flew 100 kilometres (60 miles) into the East Sea (Sea of Japan).

The launch came in the middle of a two-day nuclear security summit being hosted by Barack Obama in Washington, at which North Korea has been the focus of the US president's talks with the leaders of China, South Korea and Japan.

Obama spoke Thursday of the need to "vigilantly enforce the strong UN security measures" imposed on the North after its latest nuclear test and subsequent long-range rocket launch.

Pyongyang's state media has labelled the summit a "nonsensical" effort to find fault with the North's "legitimate access to nuclear weapons".

Existing UN sanctions ban North Korea from conducting any ballistic missile test, although short-range launches tend to go unpunished.

Last month, the North upped the ante by test-firing two medium-range missiles, which were seen as far more provocative given the threat they pose to neighbours like Japan.

Earlier Friday, Seoul said North Korea was using radio waves to jam GPS signals in South Korea, affecting scores of planes and vessels.

The coastguard said 71 out of 332 fishing boats that set out for sea on Friday morning had to return after GPS problems compromised their navigation systems, Yonhap reported.

"North Korea's GPS jamming is a clear act of provocation... we call for an immediate end to it," the South's defence ministry said in a statement.

"If North Korea continues its GPS jamming attempts despite our we will -- with close cooperation with the international community -- make North Korea pay the price," the statement said without elaborating.

Good
Don't know how much it compares to the S-300 and upto which level it is in capablity. Btw, this was ridiculed when it was displayed in the parade as dummies.

Dima wrote:Good
Don't know how much it compares to the S-300 and upto which level it is in capablity. Btw, this was ridiculed when it was displayed in the parade as dummies.

Probably broadly comparable to S-300PMU1 judging by their claims that missile has 150km range. However subsystems and radio-electronical equipment stays quite gray area. But if i had to guess i would say its should be comparable to S300PS/PM in those areas.

i was wondering what peoples views are on the North Korean air force, especially on the older stuff, such as:

Ilyushin Il-28 bomber
Nanchang Q-5 ( chinese variant mig-19 ground attack)
Chengdu J-7 (chinese variant mig-21 interceptor)
Shenyang J-6 (chinese variant mig-19)
Shenyang J-5 (chinese variant mig-17)
Su-7
North Korea still operate these in fairly high numbers

the il-28 bomber is see really on useful for dropping free fall bombs or mass area, roads etc, but the lack of height is a major draw back as well no real aircraft to protect it.

the Q-5 is still pretty capable ground attack for troop support.

J-7 still a decent cheap interceptor but would struggle against more modern aircraft.

J-6 and J-5 could be used for COIN operations, ground attack missions and attacking convoys, and are fairly cheap to run, but would be useless in poor weather/night, the J-6 is ideal for strafing runs as its armed with 3x 30mm guns and carry 250kg of rocket pods, and the J-5 also useful for strafing runs armed with 2x 23mm guns and 1x 37mm gun.

as for the Su-7 these yet again are really only as good as ground attack, and convoy attacks, armed with 2x 30mm guns but with a larger payload than the J-6, being able to carry 2,000kg of rockets and bombs,

the rest of the air force consists of Mi-2, Mi-24, Mig-21, Mig-23, and Mig-29, Su-25, and some L-39 of which these will be soviet models and possibly of base model.


whats your views?

d_taddei2 wrote:i was wondering what peoples views are on the North Korean air force, especially on the older stuff, such as:

Ilyushin Il-28 bomber
Nanchang Q-5 ( chinese variant mig-19 ground attack)
Chengdu J-7  (chinese variant mig-21 interceptor)
Shenyang J-6 (chinese variant mig-19)
Shenyang J-5 (chinese variant mig-17)
Su-7
North Korea still operate these in fairly high numbers

the il-28 bomber is see really on useful for dropping free fall bombs or mass area, roads etc, but the lack of height is a major draw back as well no real aircraft to protect it.

the Q-5 is still pretty capable ground attack for troop support.

J-7 still a decent cheap interceptor but would struggle against more modern aircraft.

J-6 and J-5 could be used for COIN operations, ground attack missions and attacking convoys, and are fairly cheap to run, but would be useless in poor weather/night, the J-6 is ideal for strafing runs as its armed with 3x 30mm guns and carry 250kg of rocket pods, and the J-5 also useful for strafing runs armed with 2x 23mm guns and 1x 37mm gun.

as for the Su-7 these yet again are really only as good as ground attack, and convoy attacks, armed with 2x 30mm guns but with a larger payload than the J-6, being able to carry 2,000kg of rockets and bombs,

the rest of the air force consists of Mi-2, Mi-24, Mig-21, Mig-23, and Mig-29, Su-25, and some L-39 of which these will be soviet models and possibly of base model.


whats your views?

Their airforce in general is in horrible state, there is really not much to say about it, they are doing their best to keep it flying but.. if they dont get something new in next 3-5 years it will cease to exist.

So it seems that North Korea has attained, going by Soviet standards:

Long-range air defence - late 80s standards (S-300P to S-300PMU1 level system)
Short-range air defence capabilities - late 70s/early 80s (early Buks and updated Pechora systems)
SHORADs - early 60s; a mix of Shilkas and ZSU-57-2s
Rocket artillery - early 90s (Smerch-like system with higher range than original model and with terminal guidance)
Armour - early 80s? (I would guess that their latest tanks are about on the late T-72B level or so)
Diesel-electric subs - late 50s (their Foxtrot knockoff is the most advanced sub they've managed to put out)
Air Force - 60s (technically they have a few MiG-29s and some 70s aircraft but the vast majority of their airforce is based on 50s/60s designs)
ICBMs - 60s
Nuclear bombs - 1945-1948 period

Basically one can form the conclusion that the areas in which North Korea is somewhat competitive in are the areas that China has helped out in in recent years; mostly the less sensitive stuff (armour, rocket artillery) or more sensitive stuff that China got nervous of South Korean capabilities in and decided to help out (long-range air-defence); or where the North Koreans managed to get some high-tech equipment from the USSR before it collapsed (short-range air defence)

The stuff they're doing by themselves (submarines, ICBMs, nuclear bombs) or unable to produce modern versions of themselves and don't have the money to buy abroad (most aircraft, SHORADs) - they're pretty far behind in. Especially nukes, which despite being an over 70-year old technology they can't seem to master it.

I wouldn't underestimate NK.

Essentially, many of the old components needed for the fighter jets to operate (old MiGs and J-7s) are probably replicated in NK by now. Artillery systems they seem to have somewhat down pat and their tanks are probably capable too. Of course their BM technology is outdated in its concept (heavily modified Scuds), but they too are a huge threat for S.Korea. Nukes they seem to have trouble with and of course their airforce is outdated, which would mean that it would be ideal for them to divert funds from the nuke program to possibly building facilities to do both research and development into building jets of their own. I cant see why they wouldn't be able to, as if they do enough in reverse engineering of the aircrafts that they have already in their arsenal, they could very well have all the technology and knowledge they need to replicate it all.

sepheronx wrote:I wouldn't underestimate NK.

Essentially, many of the old components needed for the fighter jets to operate (old MiGs and J-7s) are probably replicated in NK by now.  Artillery systems they seem to have somewhat down pat and their tanks are probably capable too.  Of course their BM technology is outdated in its concept (heavily modified Scuds), but they too are a huge threat for S.Korea.  Nukes they seem to have trouble with and of course their airforce is outdated, which would mean that it would be ideal for them to divert funds from the nuke program to possibly building facilities to do both research and development into building jets of their own.  I cant see why they wouldn't be able to, as if they do enough in reverse engineering of the aircrafts that they have already in their arsenal, they could very well have all the technology and knowledge they need to replicate it all.

Some components they will never figure out however, despite fact those aircraft they operate are quite "simple" compared to modern designs. You are aware that in early 90s they did not manage to assemble MiG29s on their own they recieved in kits, and that is supposed to be childs play compared to actually fabricating fighter of any kind. Also main issue they have with airforce is age of airframes, even if they do manage to fabricate majority of spares, the borts are old, they cant keep them flying for much longer even with best efford.

Figthers are way different than those frames that can fly 50+ years like B52 and IL-76. Their MiG21 fleet is mostly kept flying via canibalisation of used MiG21s they obtained from Ukraine or something of a sort during mid 90s and smuggling some parts from China and Russia again mostly from retired aircraft. MiG15s were also maintained partially with canibalisation, some simple domestic canibalisation and again Chinese assistance, note that some still fly as trainers.

China spent some 600mil to develop J10 which was basically already finished design when they obtained the overall design, now i dont think NK can spare that money and keep the army fed. Their major issue last decade was food and fuel, literally.

when i was there and asked the question about their military they said most of their equipment they managed to maintain themselves i am guessing through reverse engineering, and some help from China, Iran, and Belarus. But their airforce is pretty dire. But you wouldn't want to attack via ground operations against NK and not just by the size of their armed forces but more to the fact of the terrain and they have the biggest bunker system in the world which also includes underground airfields. They also use a lot of fakes as well, and have supplies in bunkers to last 6 months all out war, this includes fuel, food and ammo. They also have produced their own lasers to blind pilots. Not sure how effective their tank upgrades are though.


as some mentioned above, about food and fuel, i would this isn't so true anymore, food is not an issue when i was there last year and fuel didnt seem to be a problem either but fuel is kinda expensive but i am guessing due to international oil prices being low this has helped them.

That is true, and I feel that their priorities are not necessarily in place. I would state that they should use money to concentrate on things like alternative resources and building new plants/training new people to be able to build/make/design new, well, anything from electronics to airframe composite materials, etc etc etc. Benefit behind those is they can translate a lot of that tech to other sectors that could build themselves up.

But seems priorities are just no in place. Hopefully they will realize this.

d_taddei2 wrote:when i was there and asked the question about their military they said most of their equipment they managed to maintain themselves i am guessing through reverse engineering, and some help from China, Iran, and Belarus. But their airforce is pretty dire. But you wouldn't want to attack via ground operations against NK and not just by the size of their armed forces but more to the fact of the terrain and they have the biggest bunker system in the world which also includes underground airfields. They also use a lot of fakes as well, and have supplies in bunkers to last 6 months all out war, this includes fuel, food and ammo. They also have produced their own lasers to blind pilots. Not sure how effective their tank upgrades are though.


as some mentioned above, about food and fuel, i would this isn't so true anymore, food is not an issue when i was there last year and fuel didnt seem to be a problem either but fuel is kinda expensive but i am guessing due to international oil prices being low this has helped them.

Actually laser dazzler you are talking about is Chinese product, ZM-87 Portable Laser Disturber that they obtained in late 90s and early 2000s after China was forced to drop its producrement due to some international agreement.

Sure they have bunkers, but NATO, actually US developed types of warload with specific and only role of penetrating such fortifications, and they work well as shown in case of Iraq and Liybia.

Well i dont think they have food shortages in Pyongyang, its after all capital and everyone important and Party officials live there, hence thats why food is not the issue. However seems that common people outside capital and wast army feel food shortages whole time since USSR collapse, more or less depending on how crops perform that year.

So they do feel food and fuel shortages, however there are 2 issues. First one is that during certain periods NK leaders tried to show severe food shortages to get bigger food donations from South Korea, US and EU. And on other hand you have South Korea, Japan and USA that like showing NK as horrible and miserable place so they boost famine story over the border very often too. So yeah they do have food, fuel and electricity shortages, but they are not that huge as we might belive.

But judging by Red Cross since 1991. some 300.000 people died from famine, mostly during 1994-1998. due to bad crops and issues with electricity supply that happened during those years.

sepheronx wrote:That is true, and I feel that their priorities are not necessarily in place.  I would state that they should use money to concentrate on things like alternative resources and building new plants/training new people to be able to build/make/design new, well, anything from electronics to airframe composite materials, etc etc etc.  Benefit behind those is they can translate a lot of that tech to other sectors that could build themselves up.

But seems priorities are just no in place.  Hopefully they will realize this.

For start they should invest in food processing and food growing, new tractors, harvesters, trucks, irrigation, pumps and electricity supply network and power generation. Building bunch of small hydro power plants, "wind farms", as majority of NK still does not have electricity and it is really one of the fundamentals of survival today. That would solve their 2 major issues with citizens.

We have one saying here which broadly translates as "Greatest weapon is bread".

Bunker busters are fine, but I imagine against traditional bunkers which consists of standard cement. Although, I am not sure NK would put much emphasis on building materials, let alone on bunkers.

As well, I imagine they take international donation structures for a long ride in order to get free goods, as you mentioned. There is so little of news from NK that you have to be like d_taddei and actually go to NK in order to understand what is happening.

sepheronx wrote:Bunker busters are fine, but I imagine against traditional bunkers which consists of standard cement.  Although, I am not sure NK would put much emphasis on building materials, let alone on bunkers.

As well, I imagine they take international donation structures for a long ride in order to get free goods, as you mentioned.  There is so little of news from NK that you have to be like d_taddei and actually go to NK in order to understand what is happening.

Belive it or not, i met one guy from NK online, he was sort of college professor there in "IT", which was quite primitive i must admit. He was teaching "Web design" to selected few students, but only HTML and design via tables which is like literally late 90s way of building websites, so i "smuggled" him few CSS and HTML scans in english to study. I might even had impact on NK college studies haah

Well NK apparently build few major facilities underground which are basically carved into fairly soft limestone and then walls and ceilings were reinforced and secured by steel reinforcing mesh and then sprayed with certain amount of concrete. So real protection there is the stone and earth above you.

But they have many smaller concrete bunkers for AA guns, coastal artillery and command posts, probably counted in hundreds.

first point i wanted to ask was the guy who you had contact with this college professor i presume he was in China at the time or did you meet him in person? as there is no internet in NK only intranet which only cover the country not outside.

Another point on food, there was abundance of food and not just in the capital i went to other cities and towns i was there for 10 days, and electricity wasn't problem, hydro electric dams are in use and more being built.
Food processing and farms were a plenty and in fact NK were changing some of their crops when i was their to maize as you dont need as much water for this compared to rice. tractors and farm machinery was present but i agree more are needed, but you have to remember every person in the country needs to spend 2 weeks a year helping farmers so there isn't a shortage of manpower. There was also many construction projects going on in the country everywhere i went builders were busy. Wind farms would also be ideal as mentioned, but one thing to remember is the current sanctions on the country which is probably the most brutal that has been placed on any country to date.

As for the bunkers, some are natural caves but many are also of a very solid construction, as for NATO and USA have capable bombs, yes they do have capable bombs but the problem is not the bombs but just how many they would need the bunkers stretch throughout the country and many under thick forest, NK have a policy which they make everyone turn lights off at night as they think it hampers satellites taking pictures of NK which may or may not hamper them or makes it harder to locate sites. Bunker busting bombs ain't cheap and it would be too costly even for NATO and USA to destroy them all by this method. And you also have dummy/fake sites as well would NATO and USA be willing to drop bunker bombs or other expensive bombs on something that might be nothing. I personally think a land assault would be suicidal for NATO and USA and South Korea. And you have to remember NK shares borders with China and Russia who would secretly help NK.

but dont get me wrong the armed forces and infrastructure and economy isn't brilliant but its doing better than the west would like it too and for that reason don't want to show that it is, and want to show a dire story which isn't true. NK are building there own cars have their own version of an Ipad which i am told is almost as good as one as the chinese wanted them because they were cheap but good, and to be honest they did look really good.

d_taddei2 wrote:first point i wanted to ask was the guy who you had contact with this college professor i presume he was in China at the time or did you meet him in person? as there is no internet in NK only intranet which only cover the country not outside.

Another point on food, there was abundance of food and not just in the capital i went to other cities and towns i was there for 10 days, and electricity wasn't problem, hydro electric dams are in use and more being built.
Food processing and farms were a plenty and in fact NK were changing some of their crops when i was their to maize as you dont need as much water for this compared to rice. tractors and farm machinery was present but i agree more are needed, but you have to remember every person in the country needs to spend 2 weeks a year helping farmers so there isn't a shortage of manpower. There was also many construction projects going on in the country everywhere i went builders were busy. Wind farms would also be ideal as mentioned, but one thing to remember is the current sanctions on the country which is probably the most brutal that has been placed on any country to date.

As for the bunkers, some are natural caves but many are also of a very solid construction, as for NATO and USA have capable bombs, yes they do have capable bombs but the problem is not the bombs but just how many they would need the bunkers stretch throughout the country and many under thick forest, NK have a policy which they make everyone turn lights off at night as they think it hampers satellites taking pictures of NK which may or may not hamper them or makes it harder to locate sites. Bunker busting bombs ain't cheap and it would be too costly even for NATO and USA to destroy them all by this method. And you also have dummy/fake sites as well would NATO and USA be willing to drop bunker bombs or other expensive bombs on something that might be nothing. I personally think a land assault would be suicidal for NATO and USA and South Korea. And you have to remember NK shares borders with China and Russia who would secretly help NK.

but dont get me wrong the armed forces and infrastructure and economy isn't brilliant but its doing better than the west would like it too and for that reason don't want to show that it is, and want to show a dire story which isn't true. NK are building there own cars have their own version of an Ipad which i am told is almost as good as one as the chinese wanted them because they were cheap but good, and to be honest they did look really good.

Actually he was in NK, they have 4 computers on college only for professors that can be used to access "World Wide Web" to obtain materials for teaching or some research. However they can use it only under supervision, i assumed its someone from the gov.

Actually each spring for almost 2 months almost half of the armed forces is sent to work in fields till planting season ends.

From what i am aware cars built in NK are Chinese designs being assembled there and some reverse engineered cars from Fiat-Mercedes and South Korean SsangYong Motors. But output sems to be very low, couple hundred cars yearly combined as they do not have market to sell it. They did tho produce for very long time some Soviet military trucks knockoffs, but i am not sure what happens now with those.

When its about their mobile phone production i must say i first time hear about something like that, i am not aware of them being capable producing chips or memories needed for phones/tablets. Those are most likely just Chinese rebrands.

North Korea building bigger submarine pens


North Korea is building fortified structure with what appears to be two covered docks that could shelter ballistic missile submarines, IHS Jane's Defence Weekly reports.

Located south of the Singpo shipyard and near the Mayang-do naval base on the east coast, the new facility could be the largest active military building project in North Korea presently, Jane's reported Friday.

Commercial satellite imagery reveals that construction of the base began sometime between August 2009 and November 2012, Jane's said.

Much of the 6,000-square-meter harbor seen in 2009 had been blocked off by a sea wall and filled in by November 2012, with soil from surrounding hills likely used for filling material, the report states.

Construction of the new pier had commenced by October 2013, Janes says, and the docks were taking shape by July 2014.

The steel structures over the docks were being set and concrete slabs had been laid to form the roofs by mid-2015.May 2015 imagery showed the two pens are about 490 feet long, 32 feet wide and about 46 feet apart.

Satellite imagery from May 8 showed that pen construction had progressed to the point where portions were being covered with earth, and the new pier was nearing completion, Jane's reports.

https://hushkit.net/2016/11/29/incredible-photos-from-north-koreas-airshow/