F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion

Good news... US Senate just stripped F-22 from the spending bill.  PAK FA supremacy to reign supreme!

Obama says F-22 project "outdated, and unecessary."  

He did that because US. Navy wanted LCS instead.
(LCS= Littoral Combat Ship)

Official Reason from CBS News. com:

(AP)President Obama and Defense Secretary Robert Gates have won a standoff over funding the creation of new F-22 fighters.

The Senate voted 58-40 Tuesday to take out $1.75 billion from the 2010 defense appropriations bill that would have gone toward building seven new F-22s, the Associated Press reports.

The president and defense secretary opposed the creation of new F-22s, $140 million fighter jets which have not been used in the conflicts in Iraq or Afghanistan. The military already has 187 F-22s at its disposal.

The president had said he would veto the defense bill if it included the spending.

But members of Congress, led by Republicans Sens. Saxby Chambliss and Johnny Isakson of Georgia, have been pushing to keep the $1.75 billion for the planes in the bill, saying F-22s are necessary and that many jobs depend on them being built.

Discuss!

With all due respect, the F-22 program is outdated and unnecessary. The aircraft was designed in the 1980s and the program itself will be thirty years old in 2011. The F-22 is a superb aircraft but is not well suited to the threat environments of today. Of course we would all love to see a show down between the F-22 and the SA-21 or the PAK-FA but it just isn't going to happen in the near future. Even if a nation such as Venezuela or Iran purchased those weapons systems, the United States is not going to go to war with them. We have no interest in invading either country. We're presently concerned with asymmetric threats, small groups of isolated individuals with the means and intentions of carrying out attacks with impacts far-beyond their small numbers. That mission does not require F-22s. Think about. The US has been at war for nearly eight years and F-22's have yet to do anything in support of any of the three wars we are fighting. So what has it accomplished? Very little, its impact has been huge but its actual value is very little.

And about the PAK-FA ruling supreme. The production of the United States first 5th generation fighter has already ended while the PAK-FA has yet to even fly. Your boasts are bold and brazen to be sure, but they're just words.

Respects,
amraamski

amraamski wrote:With all due respect, the F-22 program is outdated and unnecessary. The aircraft was designed in the 1980s and the program itself will be thirty years old in 2011. The F-22 is a superb aircraft but is not well suited to the threat environments of today. Of course we would all love to see a show down between the F-22 and the SA-21 or the PAK-FA but it just isn't going to happen in the near future. Even if a nation such as Venezuela or Iran purchased those weapons systems, the United States is not going to go to war with them. We have no interest in invading either country. We're presently concerned with asymmetric threats, small groups of isolated individuals with the means and intentions of carrying out attacks with impacts far-beyond their small numbers. That mission does not require F-22s. Think about. The US has been at war for nearly eight years and F-22's have yet to do anything in support of any of the three wars we are fighting. So what has it accomplished? Very little, its impact has been huge but its actual value is very little.

And about the PAK-FA ruling supreme. The production of the United States first 5th generation fighter has already ended while the PAK-FA has yet to even fly. Your boasts are bold and brazen to be sure, but they're just words.

Respects,
amraamski

No disrespect intended. Simple truth of the matter is PAK FA will be better than F-35 if everything goes according to plan. Su-35BM is already superior in certain aspects that have the Aussies up in arms over the purchase of a downgraded LO plane. PAK FA will be exported to any country willing to pay (except China) and it will be many. The proliferation of Russian fighters that are better than any legacy USAF aerocraft is a very real problem. The shut down of the F-22 line will most likely be for good as it would cost billions to restart it. There may not be war with Russia/US, but there will be war with US allies vs none US allies that will eventually field these planes.

amraamski wrote:With all due respect, the F-22 program is outdated and unnecessary. The aircraft was designed in the 1980s and the program itself will be thirty years old in 2011. The F-22 is a superb aircraft but is not well suited to the threat environments of today.

It didn't enter service until 2005 so I hardly call it outdated and niether is the ability to dominate airspace. It is the most relavent aspect of warfare today. If it isn't suited to the threat environments then the only war you plan on EVER fighting is against Wahhabi insurgents.

Of course we would all love to see a show down between the F-22 and the SA-21 or the PAK-FA but it just isn't going to happen in the near future. Even if a nation such as Venezuela or Iran purchased those weapons systems, the United States is not going to go to war with them. We have no interest in invading either country. We're presently concerned with asymmetric threats, small groups of isolated individuals with the means and intentions of carrying out attacks with impacts far-beyond their small numbers. That mission does not require F-22s. Think about. The US has been at war for nearly eight years and F-22's have yet to do anything in support of any of the three wars we are fighting. So what has it accomplished? Very little, its impact has been huge but its actual value is very little.

If Georgia joins NATO it will be quite necessary.

And about the PAK-FA ruling supreme. The production of the United States first 5th generation fighter has already ended while the PAK-FA has yet to even fly. Your boasts are bold and brazen to be sure, but they're just words.

A four year production run of 187 total is hardly anything to brag about. PAK-FA is going to be pumped out in large numbers by not only Russia, but India, and Brazil. With these three major players you will find your global dominance dwarfed by the project.

Vladislav wrote:

amraamski wrote:With all due respect, the F-22 program is outdated and unnecessary. The aircraft was designed in the 1980s and the program itself will be thirty years old in 2011. The F-22 is a superb aircraft but is not well suited to the threat environments of today.

It didn't enter service until 2005 so I hardly call it outdated and niether is the ability to dominate airspace. It is the most relavent aspect of warfare today. If it isn't suited to the threat environments then the only war you plan on EVER fighting is against Wahhabi insurgents.

Of course we would all love to see a show down between the F-22 and the SA-21 or the PAK-FA but it just isn't going to happen in the near future. Even if a nation such as Venezuela or Iran purchased those weapons systems, the United States is not going to go to war with them. We have no interest in invading either country. We're presently concerned with asymmetric threats, small groups of isolated individuals with the means and intentions of carrying out attacks with impacts far-beyond their small numbers. That mission does not require F-22s. Think about. The US has been at war for nearly eight years and F-22's have yet to do anything in support of any of the three wars we are fighting. So what has it accomplished? Very little, its impact has been huge but its actual value is very little.

If Georgia joins NATO it will be quite necessary.

And about the PAK-FA ruling supreme. The production of the United States first 5th generation fighter has already ended while the PAK-FA has yet to even fly. Your boasts are bold and brazen to be sure, but they're just words.

A four year production run of 187 total is hardly anything to brag about. PAK-FA is going to be pumped out in large numbers by not only Russia, but India, and Brazil. With these three major players you will find your global dominance dwarfed by the project.

I agree with your opinion!

F-22 crashed due to pilot black-out
10.08.2009

The loss of the pilot the ability to perceive the situation in its entirety (Situational Awareness) has led to the catastrophe the fifth-generation fighter F-22A Raptor.

March 25, 2009 fifth-generation fighter F-22A Raptor, which consists in the armament of the U.S. Air Force combat units during the test flight crashed at 35 miles (about fifty kilometers) from Edwards Air in California. The pilot - test pilot of Lockheed Martin, David Cooley - died.

According to unofficial information, he had over 4500 flying hours in the United States Air Force, Royal Air Force of Great Britain, as well as a test pilot of Lockheed Martin, including more than 1 thousand of hours - as a pilot instructor.

Plaque on the fighter F-22A Raptor was 121 hours.

July 31, 2009 the technical management of the United States Air Force (Air Force Materiel Command) presented a report on the accident investigation. It is interesting and may prove to Russian designers - home prototype fifth-generation fighter aircraft, according to some reports, should be first raised in the air in the short or medium term.

According to the report, the pilot just before the disaster served as a maneuver with a high overload - its value is not specified. It was successfully completed two of three planned flight mission maneuvers.

The third maneuver the pilot, according to some indirect signs, due to overloading due to physiological stress factors almost fainted and lost the most important quality, manages the fifth-generation fighter - the quality of perception of complex heterogeneous information in a single spatio-temporal volume (Situational Awareness).

This led to the delay in carrying out the necessary maneuvers. A partial, fragmentary and incomplete perception of the situation too late to lead the pilot to understand the impossibility of saving the aircraft because of insufficient height and to address the catapult.

However, due to high speed aircraft ejection was bad. Pilot killed in a collision with the ground.

Analysis of the circumstances of the disaster showed that all of the fighter F-22A Raptor in flight operated normally. Factors that could there be to endanger the safe operation of fighter aircraft in the United States Air Force combat units have been identified.

Analysis of the circumstances of the disaster showed the importance of special, not even translated until now in the Russian language in any appropriate manner of perception heterogeneous (tactical, navigation, obschegeograficheskoy, etc.) information in its entirety - the quality of Situational Awareness.

Without a clear understanding of the significance of Situational Awareness, as well as the means and methods by which it is achieved, the creation of truly modern civil and military assets and effective management for a long time will remain only a pious wish.

Права на данный материал принадлежат CNews.ru.

American F-22 fighter jets out of service because of rain

05/10/2009


At Air Force Base Air Force U.S. Andersen in the Pacific Ocean about a dozen fifth-generation fighter F-22 began experiencing technical problems due to high humidity, reports The Air Force Times. According to U.S. National Weather Service, the island falls from 2000 to 2800 millimeters of rain a year. Earlier, the aircraft were transferred to the island of Guam from the territory of Alaska, where the figure is much lower.

Moisture got into the car through the cooling system, which has caused disruption to the complex elements of electronics. But, according to the spokesperson of the U.S. Air Force Command in the Pacific, Colonel Thomas Edward (Edward Thomas), the technical problems for these fighters are quite common, since they entered service only about five years ago.

He also noted that the aircraft has already corrected these technical issues and with the contractor have developed measures that will avoid in future such incidents. The representative of the U.S. Air Force said that the output of machinery out of action did not affect the combat capability of U.S. forces in the region and jeopardizing the security of Guam, and the F-22 as before will be at the airbase.

Note that the F-22 Raptor is the only one to date, standing on a fifth-generation fighter aircraft armament. Its export is prohibited by U.S. law, although some countries would like to buy these aircraft. At the same time, American leaders decided to suspend the purchase of F-22 and the Pentagon to focus on the development of alternative fighter F-35.

http://lenta.ru/news/2009/10/05/rain/

Lockheed Martin was accused of creating a "defective" fighter F-22


American company Lokheed Martin knowingly used defective radio-absorbing coating for the F-22 Raptor. This, according to the AP, said in a lawsuit against the company's former Lockheed Martin engineer Derrol Olsen (Darrol Olsen). According to Olsen, the aircraft the F-22 was applied a few extra layers of coating to a fighter could get all the necessary radar tests.
Main marriage, according to a former engineer, Lockheed Martin, is that the radio-absorbing coating applied to the creation of F-22, may have erased from the fuselage of the aircraft under the influence of fuel, oil or water. In total, Lockheed Martin was applied to the fuselage F-22 600 extra pounds (272 kilograms) of the coating.
Claim to Lockheed Martin Olsen filed in October 2007, but before the court he was handed over only in early November 2009. According to Lockheed Martin, Olsen data are untrue, and the company intends to defend its position in court. Olsen worked in the company until 1999. Fighter F-22 Raptor Lockheed Martin developed since 1983, and production was launched in 2001.
In the suit Olsen demanded from Lockheed Martin returned to the Government $ 50 million for each of the 183 already collected or contracted F-22, as well as to pay his legal costs. Thus, if the claim will be satisfied with the engineer, the American company will have to pay about ten billion dollars.
By 2009, were produced 141 F-22 Raptor. Earlier it was planned that by 2011 will be produced 188 aircraft, but this year the U.S. Congress has removed from the military budget for 2010 expenditures for the purchase of fighter aircraft. This budget was approved by U.S. President Barack Obama in October 2009.
F-22 has the world's only fifth generation fighter and the most expensive military aircraft. Cost F-22 Raptor is 140 million dollars. Cost per flight hour is a fighter and one of the highest - about 45 thousand dollars.
American fighter capable of a maximum speed of up to 2,4 thousand kilometers per hour, while cruising speed is 1.9 thousand kilometers per hour. Armament fighter is a 20-millimeter cannon as well as attachments weapons (missiles, air-to-air and air-to-earth ") or bombs. Staffing arming fighters located in the inner compartments to reduce the "visibility" of aircraft.

http://www.aviationtoday.ru/news9613.html

Sound like they need someone guilty to coverup thier faliures.

this is the third F22 crash, right?

The Money is being spent elsewhere. On Black projects not seen.

The F-22 was simple window dressing.for the Simple minded.

Aramonik wrote:The Money is being spent elsewhere. On Black projects not seen.

The F-22 was simple window dressing.for the Simple minded.

The money will now be spent on their overbudget F-35. It is turning into a financial nightmare just as the F-22 did.

Well said Marshall Vladimir 79

The F-35 performance is in the pits
http://www.randomperspective.com/page.asp?1news-3-069

Aramonik wrote:Well said Marshall Vladimir 79

The F-35 performance is in the pits
http://www.randomperspective.com/page.asp?1news-3-069

Disagreed with the last part:

“Absolutely not. While it is true that unmanned aircraft are going to make fighter jets obsolete in actual military battles – how boring would films become? Do you think watching Jack Bauer ride a Predator Drone across the skyline of Los Angeles clubbing it to death with a laptop would make good television?

Just an FYI, Drones where taken down during the Kosovo war, when ZSU's fired at it. Also, There has been a case where a Predator drone attached with A2A weapons was taken down by a Mig-25 (that is right, a 40 year old aircraft took it down).

Mig-25. A Beast.

http://www.space-travellers.de/index.php?wohin=mig25b_response&subon=10

Here is new USA plan of military aircraft acquisition by 2040.

LINK

Its interesting to see they decided to drop F-22 about the same time PAK-FA production will be in its tops.

UPDATE 2-Price of Lockheed's F-35 fighter soars

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1123180820100312?type=marketsNews

Cost/plane seen over 50 pct higher than nine years ago

Wunderwaffen - sometimes people forget some of the lessons of world war 2.
Weapons that are unreliable no matter how good are on paper will not work.
Price is a problem a weapons to expensive to lose can become more of a liabiliti then an advantage.

outdated? yes but can blow 90 percent of your aircraft out of the sky

UMC wrote:outdated? yes but can blow 90 percent of your aircraft out of the sky

Not outdated thats for sure. I dont see any reason in developing new plane while you have one already developt with much batter perfomance.

"Six F-22 Raptor pilots returned Wednesday to Langley Air Force Base from a five-week training mission in the Middle East. Their trip marked the controversial aircraft's first extended test under harsh desert conditions.

The pilots, who are part of the 27th Fighter Squadron of Langley's 1st Fighter Wing, spent most of the deployment carrying out simulated combat missions at a training center in the United Arab Emirates, the Air Force said. They practiced against military pilots from Pakistan, Jordan, France and Britain."
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/12/f22-raptors-return-desert-training-middle-east

Alaska ground search under way for missing F-22 pilot

By Yereth Rosen

ANCHORAGE, Alaska | Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:30pm EST

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (Reuters) - An extensive ground search was under way on Friday for the missing pilot of a stealth fighter jet that crashed in a remote area of Alaska earlier this week during a nighttime training mission.

The pilot, identified as Air Force Capt. Jeffrey Haney, has not been heard from since his Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor disappeared from radar as the aircraft and another jet were heading back to base at about 7:40 p.m. local time on Tuesday.

The wreckage of Haney's jet was spotted by search and rescue teams from the air on Wednesday in an area about 100 miles north of Anchorage.

Officials from the Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardon, where Haney was based, said they did not know whether he was able to eject from the aircraft. They said that if he did, he has training and equipment suited to Alaska winter conditions.

"What we're looking for now is the pilot," Air Force Lt. Col. Scott Jackson, director of the emergency operations center at the base, said in a statement.

"We want to know ... is the ejector seat in the crash or is he is out in the area somewhere? Once we determine that, then we'll begin securing the aircraft crash site and ensuring it's safe," Jackson said.

Search teams were focusing on an area east of Cantwell, a community on the eastern border of Denali National Park, base officials said, but conditions there were said to be challenging.

"The training area where the F-22 crashed is larger than the state of Vermont," said Air Force Colonel Jack McMullen, commander of the 3rd Wing at Elmendorf.

"It's remote, with no maintained roads in the winter and the terrain is very rugged. All these factors complicate the process even in good weather," he said. "When you factor in subzero temperatures and the potential for heavy snowfall, you see this is truly a massive undertaking."

The Raptor is a single-seat, twin-engine fighter equipped with stealth technology.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AI5EE20101119