F-22 Raptor: News and Discussion

Much talk has been made about F-22 having fuel tanks, but the evidence shows they didn't have them on in the OSF pictures taken during the engagement. 



 
A bigger issue for the F-22 than this is its toxic RAM coat that creates hypoxia of its pilots and sickness to its ground crews.

Thx for your answers.
However my last questions is more wider than only the focus of F-22.
Noone could doubt that the US war machine is built to destroy, to loot, to steal, murder every countries that refused the world banksters order.
Leave under the debt or we will kill you. The Soviet Union limited this kind of behaviour -in spite of the great communists faillures system-, unfortunetly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, US had no counterparts, whereever you are the neo-liberal order is growing, with bursting the number poors, and increasing the wealth of micro-minorities.

Back to our subject, insofar, the US Budget today is around 700 billions $, Russia only 65, less than 10%. You realize easily why US took advantages, obviously, comparing the two amounts of budget is stupid, and non sense. As US has military machine in order to attack, destroy, for the goal save the $, and Wall Street. The goal of this huge budget to sustain a war against Russia, and China, and two other minor conflicts against third world countries like Syria, Algeria, Iran, Indonesia, Venezuala, North Corea. In the same time keeping its technological advances. For example the F16 has (Radar Cross Section) RCS less than 1 m², meanwhile SU30 -excellent Fighter-Bomber- more than 25 m² -according to links that I saw in Internet, even though, Iam not a specialist, not military, Iam a little newbie, and I know nothing about this kind of subject -.
Moreover, the US AESA are the best in the world, with AMRAAM missiles supposed equiped stratoreactor -I don't know if Russia has this kind of hardware, if someone knows better about this topic, please help us -.
Having the military's greatest budget in the history, does not mean invicible, dailleurs the Rafale, or sweedish Grippen, Mig-29 could beat every military aircraft. However noone can doubt that US benefits an historic advantage, or an unfortunetate accident. This was the news.
However, Iam asking this question, the F-22 was done to give US supremacy in the air, this kind of event, is proving the exact contrary. But with military budget cut that are comming, it would be dubious if US could still keep this fleet of 200 aircrafts even less the F-35. However what is the US secret weapon that give the surpemacy against the entire world ?

The good news is this filthy system is going to crash, and you can measure what is the first wave of US military reduction's budget, this is only the first wave. The next puncture will be far painfull, and will end definitly the US unipolar world. As their economy is crashing. Finally.

In fact, Iam afraid that the only power that can match with US power, is China, for example launched a 50 billions $ program to catch up their late in turbofan fighter. Let's bet that they will arrive.
An event occured nearly quietly, it was a shame for US, indeed, China is overpassing US nominal GDP, as US GDP is overestimed at 30%. Where is Russia ? I don't know, but this country has huge potential.

If the US attacked Europe (even with Europe's minuscule military spending), it would win but with trendemous casualties. Same with CHina, India, Iran, Pakistan etc etc.

As Sa'iqa wrote:If the US attacked Europe (even with Europe's minuscule military spending), it would win but with trendemous casualties. Same with CHina, India, Iran, Pakistan etc etc.

I doubt the US could take Europe as a whole. Their Army is only big enough for Iraq sized invasions and even with reductions, euro defence has way more manpower with equal equipment.

I doubt the US could successfully defeat any really determined enemy... Finland springs to mind obviously... I don't think they could beat the Scottish.

They certainly have the firepower, but they don't have the guts to exterminate an entire people the way the Germans did and most of the time that is what it takes.

For example the F16 has (Radar Cross Section) RCS less than 1 m², meanwhile SU30 -excellent Fighter-Bomber- more than 25 m² -according to links that I saw in Internet, even though, Iam not a specialist, not military, Iam a little newbie, and I know nothing about this kind of subject -.

Hahahahahaha... and how did the F-16 get this magical tiny RCS with its enormous chin mounted air intake that is fixed and in no way block the view of the enormous front fan of its enormous jet engine?

Even clean an F-16 has a much larger RCS than 1m, and most of the time it carries stores. The Su-30 on the other hand does not have the RCS of a B-52 even with lots of external stores. RCS for both aircraft is much more like 10-12 for the Su-30 and 3-4 for the F-16.

Moreover, the US AESA are the best in the world, with AMRAAM missiles supposed equiped stratoreactor -I don't know if Russia has this kind of hardware, if someone knows better about this topic, please help us -.

What is a stratoreactor?  And BTW it sounds rather more like the French AESA radars with their special radar cancellation modes have a few tricks the US seems to know nothing about.

As Sa'iqa wrote:If the US attacked Europe (even with Europe's minuscule military spending), it would win but with trendemous casualties. Same with CHina, India, Iran, Pakistan etc etc.

Who do you mean by "it" ? Europe or US ?

Bottomline is the whole of Europe will not be opposed to the US (in case this hypothetical war does take place). The UK and the Scandavian countries will not be part of any European coalition .

Regarding CHina, India, Iran, Pakistan etc etc they do not stand a chance . Maybe China can drag the war for a few months before surrendering but India, Iran, Pakistan will fall within 15 days if not less . Most of their weapons are either obsolete or sub standard and their economies are failing . On the other hand the US can launch a debilitating attack on let's say India with hundreds of SLBMs and India will have no way to retaliate. If those Hindoos are smart , they too will surrender without a fight like the Iraqis did in 2003 . I have seen a whole lot of these Indians in the UK . They are all a bunch of cowards who do not have the appetite for a fight .

How long will this racist Idiot be tolerated?

Vladimir said explicitly, no racism on this website.

Garry, can this loon please.

They are all a bunch of cowards who do not have the appetite for a fight 

You never hear about Indians mugging or worse, stabbing people in London streets. And regards fighting. How old are You? Using Your school experience to determine outcome of WW3.. Just... Brilliant.

TR1 wrote:How long will this racist Idiot be tolerated?

Vladimir said explicitly, no racism on this website.

Garry, can this loon please.

Where exactly is the racism ? I am saying exactly what the Western society thinks . Even Russians don't like these Asians & Blacks and the Moscow mayor has spoken out openly against these Indians , Chinese etc who are stealing jobs in Russia and committing crimes .

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130613/181638014/Moscow-Mayor-Urges-Tougher-Measures-Against-Illegal-Migrants.html

So now according to you even the Mayor of Moscow and others in Russia who speak out against Chinese, Indians , Blacks are all racist and should be banned.

Why don't you ban all westerners and right thinking Russians from joining this forum so that those half baked ideas that Asians are promoting on this forum can get more currency .

Regular wrote:You never hear about Indians mugging or worse, stabbing people in London streets.

These Indians are the worst possible criminals . Even the UK Govt does not entertain the idea of them entering UK . At long last some common sense has prevailed in the UK parliament & they are planning to impose a £3k bond on Asians & Blacks if they want a UK visa

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4980377/Asians-and-Africans-3k-bill-to-enter-UK-in-tough-crackdown-on-immigration-abuse.html

Till date you have provided no evidence of anything that you have said . And I am not surprised , coz you and TR1 don't have any evidence to support your dubious claims .

It's You shouting from roof tops. So how about You prove us that Indians are worse criminals in Uk (technically most of criminals are local population and only then Easter Europeans)
I only know Indians who are non violent and decent people. And I even worked with the ones that live in India. It's my claim
Even here we have quality posters here from India, they are not bothering to get involved in this retarded discussion.

German treatment of subhumans was not racism, since they all felt so, including their leadership!


Vladimir is pretty busy lately I think, but he made clear notice one of BTR's stupid racist threads: this forum does not cater to racism.

Nick has constantly broken that, and I think consequences need to be paid.
This forum is about "Russian military" not someone's butthurt at other skin colors.
I don't think most forum members want us to be associated with such assholes.

I have provided links after links to support my claims . You people on the other hand have provided nothing .

"Quality posters from India " seriously , name one & then define quality. I have seen some of these Indian members are in this forum with absolutely little or no IQ , but I don't want to take names and hurt your delicate sensibilities .

And if you think that the British Prime Minister , Mayor of London are all racist then I am glad to be in their company.

Austin, Sujoy, are just two guys who come to mind who have offered far more to this forum than your moronic racism + attempts at LM salesmanship.

Everytime you open your mouth about anything Russian, you sound like a total ignoramus. THe questions comes up: what the hell are you doing here?

Where exactly is the racism ? I am saying exactly what the Western society thinks . Even Russians don't like these Asians & Blacks and the Moscow mayor has spoken out openly against these Indians , Chinese etc who are stealing jobs in Russia and committing crimes .

The link you post to support your view talks about Illegal migrant workers... it does not call them black or asian... in fact it states most of them are from former soviet republics and are therefore likely native to the region or neighbourhood.

They are complaining about illegal migrants... not migrants.

Why don't you ban all westerners and right thinking Russians from joining this forum so that those half baked ideas that Asians are promoting on this forum can get more currency .

What ideas? Our Indian members talk about military equipment for the most part, and don't push any agenda... radical or otherwise.

These Indians are the worst possible criminals . Even the UK Govt does not entertain the idea of them entering UK . At long last some common sense has prevailed in the UK parliament & they are planning to impose a £3k bond on Asians & Blacks if they want a UK visa

Hahahahaha... hilarious... making immigrants pay 3 grand to get into the country... the problem isn't legal immigration, it is illegal immigration... do you think Illegal Immigrants are going to pay 3 thousand pounds?

Most illegal immigrants pay ten times more than that, but it goes to the people who smuggle them into the UK... do you think those people will share with the UK government?

GarryB wrote:

Hahahahahaha... and how did the F-16 get this magical tiny RCS with its enormous chin mounted air intake that is fixed and in no way block the view of the enormous front fan of its enormous jet engine?

Even clean an F-16 has a much larger RCS than 1m, and most of the time it carries stores. The Su-30 on the other hand does not have the RCS of a B-52 even with lots of external stores. RCS for both aircraft is much more like 10-12 for the Su-30 and 3-4 for the F-16.

At first Iam not specialist, secundly this is what I've seen from another website.
Third, I did not know if RCS exists, or if there is important in dogfight. However as they explained in the links, the first see, the first fire, in fact something decisive. Is it ? I don't know.
Moreover, if the SU-30 has 20, or even 30, I've never said that he is a bad figher-bomber, on contrary. Aside the fact that Iam not a F-16 fan, as in the first gulf war a high US defence responsible said quietly -with maybe the establishment, and General dynamic pressures- that the F-16 is the less effective US fighter, in fact this high responsible mean simply that the F-16 was a shit. 30 aircrafts supposed to be accidents. As you can easily imagine how much this accidents were not simply disguised losses because of they were successfully downed by Iraqis anti aircraft defence. Moreover between 1979-1990, nearly 70 F-16 israelis were lost, obviously by the magic joker-explanation....accidents. When US lost helicopter during the Iraq, Afghanstan occupation, the causes were always the magic joker explantation mechanical faillure, accidents. Damn! They were many diabolic accidents!
Noone could doubt that the SU-30 is an excellent aircraft, comparable to F-15 Strike Eagle. If not better.

Moreover, the US AESA are the best in the world, with AMRAAM missiles supposed equiped stratoreacteur -I don't know if Russia has this kind of hardware, if someone knows better about this topic, please help us -.

What is a stratoreactor?  And BTW it sounds rather more like the French AESA radars with their special radar cancellation modes have a few tricks the US seems to know nothing about.

Sorry Garry, bad french translation : stratoreacteur=ramjet.
Does Russia get this kind of AMRAAM ?

At first Iam not specialist, secundly this is what I've seen from another website.

I am not a specialist either and can say that most RCS figures you will see on the internet are wrong and are generally created by people guessing who are trying to make a point which leads to bias in their guesses.

Third, I did not know if RCS exists, or if there is important in dogfight. However as they explained in the links, the first see, the first fire, in fact something decisive. Is it ? I don't know.

For non stealth aircraft like F-16 and Su-30 there is no range at which one could see the other and the other could not see them so RCS is irrelevant. At the ranges both aircraft can shoot both can easily detect and track the other.

In a dogfight most dogfight missiles are IR guided so RCS is irrelevant there too and anyway at dogfight ranges most radars can detect even stealthy targets... an Su-30 could track an F-22 from 5-10km and the F-16 is no F-22.

Sorry Garry, bad french translation : stratoreacteur=ramjet.
Does Russia get this kind of AMRAAM ?

Russia has plenty of experience with ramjet powered missiles... the SA-6 for instance used combined rocket ramjet propulsion. The Kh-31 and several anti ship missiles use ramjet propulsion including Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos.

Currently they are working on scramjets.

There is reportedly a version of the R-77 with ramjet propulsion though the time taken to develop it makes me think it will be scramjet instead.

GarryB wrote:
I am not a specialist either and can say that most RCS figures you will see on the internet are wrong and are generally created by people guessing who are trying to make a point which leads to bias in their guesses.

As I said, I did not know even if this word exist.

For non stealth aircraft like F-16 and Su-30 there is no range at which one could see the other and the other could not see them so RCS is irrelevant. At the ranges both aircraft can shoot both can easily detect and track the other.

In a dogfight most dogfight missiles are IR guided so RCS is irrelevant there too and anyway at dogfight ranges most radars can detect even stealthy targets... an Su-30 could track an F-22 from 5-10km and the F-16 is no F-22.

I've never trust about the so-called Stealth's effectiveness. The war of Yougoslavia, when serbian Mig-29 successfully downed an F-117. Moreover, recall, last year, when Iranian downed successfully the stealth Sentinell. There was a shock for US staff, as It was for downed F-117 stealth . As there was when their U2 was downed in 1960, as it was when soviet pilots downed their SR-71, in spite of the fact that US propaganda claimed the contrary.
I think the chineses, and russians engineers helped iranians, or at least provide usefull procedure how they could down it. A good radar inside the SU-30 could easily detect the F-22. Russia as China s engineers can afford it.

Russia has plenty of experience with ramjet powered missiles... the SA-6 for instance used combined rocket ramjet propulsion. The Kh-31 and several anti ship missiles use ramjet propulsion including Onyx/Yakhont/Brahmos.....
There is reportedly a version of the R-77 with ramjet propulsion though the time taken to develop it makes me think it will be scramjet

Interrestings news. Thx

Currently they are working on scramjets.

I heard about that.

NickM wrote:I have seen a whole lot of these Indians in the UK . They are all a bunch of cowards who do not have the appetite for a fight .

So if "these" Indians live peacefully, they must be a coward. If one goes by your stupid logic, that can be said about many Westerns/Foreigners in India. Also I guess you will have great respect for somebody who beheaded UK soldier openly in street. You can't have it both ways now can you?

According to some reports, the American Raptor F-22 have been shoot down recently
in northen Jordan ,near Syria border.Apparently was testing Syrian defenses but that also some
4 tomahawks missiles intercepted by Pantsir system. The sources believe that this event was the reason
of the delayed attack planned against Syria.

here is the full report..

A U.S. F-22 Raptor jet crashed above the sky of northern Jordan.
(translated from arab to italian and then from italian to english, sorry if there are errors)

According to the Oklahoman newspaper Post, citing U.S. military sources that the F-22 Raptor crashed in the north of Jordan, sources tell about the possibility of shoot down the F-22 Raptor aircraft by a Syrian missile Syrian everything and happened near the Syrian border, while a military expert John Blu Reed told the newspaper that the shoot down of the F-22 Raptor confirmation that Syria has a defense system updated the S-300, S 400 missiles or rockets, l 'U.S. expert also stated that U.S. relations - Russia will be even more strained if it is confirmed that Russia has provided to Syria missiles S 400.On the other hand according to reports from the United States, according to the Los Angeles Times of America, the Syrian defense forces have shot down four missiles launched by the Americans type Tomahawk, sources tell us that it was the defense systems (Bentsr 1) anti-aircraft missiles that have made that American missiles struck, and centered in the middle, the sources of Washington state that four missiles were launched to test the degree of defense of the Syrian forces, the sources have also confirmed that one of the main reasons in stopping aggression against Syria is the overthrow of the American F-22 Raptor crashed yesterday in the north of Jordan, also also deal with the part of the Syrian air defense missiles to the four Tomahok, daa remember that Jordan is still home to its territory five F-22, and this was one of the main reasons to postpone the trial of aggression against Syria.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7f4_1377959586
http://www.southlebanon.org/?p=87063

Don't forget about 12 B-2 shot down by RPGs too.

F-22s will be no where near Syria or Iran... they have plenty of cruise missiles... why risk a billion dollars of stealth fighter?

GarryB wrote:F-22s will be no where near Syria or Iran... they have plenty of cruise missiles... why risk a billion dollars of stealth fighter?

Combat testing, maybe?? 

It might be used in SEAD but it's bit too early. I presume first Syria will be showered by cruise missiles as Gaz mentioned.