China-Russia joint military projects

The People's Liberation Army of China gets new medium-range air defense system HQ-16

LINK

But what is interesting is this part:

HQ-16 ("Red Flag-16" export designation - LY-80) - a joint Sino-Russian project to upgrade the ship's air defense system 9K37M1-2 'Calm' mid-range deystviya.Takzhe number of sources reported on the use of technologies in the project of the Russian air defense system " Beech. "

Russians have their fingers in everything China does. First Z-10 attack helicopter and now this - not to mention scores of other equipment.

Interesting news , A finger in every thing that China does , As the saying goes "Keep Your Friends Close , Keep Your Enemies Closer"

Twice the size of Mi-26  

Russia and China may begin joint development of super-heavy helicopter

China has asked for Russian help in the development of engines for the fighter J-20

Time to make money on Type30

Now here are some very interesting news that almost went unnoticed




China’s call for arms

China’s newest Xian H-6K long-range bomber is also fitted with Russian engines of the Soloviev D-30KP2 design. The country’s two fifth-generation fighter programmes, the Chengdu J-20 and the Shenyang J-31, are in the flight-testing phase, and China is apparently interested in fitting them with Russian next-generation engines, including the Saturn 117S, which powers the Sukhoi Su-35. In addition, virtually all Chinese-built military and civilian aircraft designs are equipped with imported powerplants. 
In terms of helicopter exports to Beijing, apart from contracts for transport helicopters, it is expected that China will continue limited procurement of Kamov’s special-mission aircraft, which are either impossible or unfeasible to clone locally in the foreseeable future.
One traditional aspect of bilateral arms trade is represented by joint research and development efforts, or by research and development programmes run by Russia in China’s interests. 
These include some key Chinese weapons systems, such as the PL-12 air-to-air missile, the HQ-16 SAM system, the Hongdu L-15 combat trainer, the CAIC WZ-10 combat helicopter, the FC-1 tactical fighter, the Project 054À frigate.

In fact, the number of newly ordered engines may even grow. While Chinese air-framers have achieved impressive results, the country’s military warplane engine technology remains at a relatively low level of development. All the three indigenous fourth-generation fighter designs are powered by Russian engines: the AL-31F for the J-11B, the Saturn AL-31FN for the Chengdu J-10, and the Klimov RD-93 for the CAC FC-1.

More collaboration between the countries

CASIC and Russian Technologies agree to defence collaboration

Nice

China to invest 320 million dollars in the assembly of Russian-Chinese helicopter

Advanced Heavy Lifter, future Russian-Chinese heavy-lift helicopter.

Planned maximum takeoff weight 38.2 tons, top speed 300 km/h, service ceiling 5700 meters, range 630 km.





http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1465326.html

俄罗斯中国直升机项目38吨 - Sino-Russia co-engineered heavy helicopter debut in China
English.news.cn | 2015-09-09 11:11:12 | Editor: huaxia

More Here: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-09/09/c_134605924.htm

TIANJIN, Sept. 9 (Xinhua) -- A heavy-lift helicopter jointly developed by China and Russia made its debut in China on Wednesday.

On display at the Tianjin International Helicopter Exhibition, the chopper is specially designed to suit China's geographical conditions, and can operate smoothly at high altitudes and temperatures, said Huang Chuanyue, deputy chief engineer with the helicopter division of the Aviation Industry Corp. of China.

With a maximum cruising speed of 300 km/h, and the ability to take-off carrying 38.2 tonnes, it can carry excavators, cargo containers and light tactical vehicles, Huang told Xinhua.

China and Russia on May 8 signed a framework agreement agreeing to take the project to the next stage, which specified that all future models will be manufactured in China, Huang said.

These heavy-duty helicopters will be used in rescue and disaster missions, as well as maritime affairs, Huang said.

38 ton Helo the PD14 engine

Looks like a cross between a Mi-26 and a Mi-38.

Logical I guess.

George1 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Looks like a cross between a Mi-26 and a Mi-38.

Logical I guess.

i think its a civilian project

So what makes you certain of that?

US play catch up! Ch53k the 35 ton

Ru make the 38 ton Helo!

With a maximum cruising speed of 300 km/h, and the ability to take-off carrying 38.2 tonnes, it can carry excavators, cargo containers and light tactical vehicles, Huang told Xinhua.

I don't know though, in what kind of absurd alternate reality - this helicopter would be able to carry 38.2 tonnes in. Not even the Mi-26 can do more than 20 tonnes.

That figure refers to its max. take-off weight, which is the maximum weight at which the helicopter can get of the ground at, but which includes not only cargo, but the helicopter's weight itself, its crew and fuel. Its useful load probably won't be more than 14 tonnes.

flamming_python wrote:

With a maximum cruising speed of 300 km/h, and the ability to take-off carrying 38.2 tonnes, it can carry excavators, cargo containers and light tactical vehicles, Huang told Xinhua.

I don't know though, in what kind of absurd alternate reality - this helicopter would be able to carry 38.2 tonnes in. Not even the Mi-26 can do more than 20 tonnes.

That figure refers to its max. take-off weight, which is the maximum weight at which the helicopter can get of the ground at, but which includes not only cargo, but the helicopter's weight itself, its crew and fuel. Its useful load probably won't be more than 14 tonnes.

Don't know, looks like they did again a bad job of getting their numbers and infos right.

Book. wrote:US play catch up! Ch53k the 35 ton

Ru make the 38 ton Helo!

Ch-53k...35,000 lbs*, not tons. BTW the Ch-53k will cost a ridiculously expensive amount, well over $100 million dollars per helicopter!!! Fucking greedy ass lobbyists strike again...

http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/668986.pdf#page=77

...The fucking helicopter will cost a fortune to procure, and costs similar to a 5th-gen fighter aircraft! Am I the only one who believes Sikorsky (aka the company that wants to become a Kamov clone) should have their arms twisted?

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Book. wrote:US play catch up! Ch53k the 35 ton

Ru make the 38 ton Helo!

Ch-53k...35,000 lbs*, not tons. BTW the Ch-53k will cost a ridiculously expensive amount, well over $100 million dollars per helicopter!!! Fucking greedy ass lobbyists strike again...

http://www.gao.gov/assets/670/668986.pdf#page=77

...The fucking helicopter will cost a fortune to procure, and costs similar to a 5th-gen fighter aircraft! Am I the only one who believes Sikorsky (aka the company that wants to become a Kamov clone) should have their arms twisted?

Sikorsky is no longer an independent company Lockheed Martin acquired them in 2015 .

Book. wrote:US play catch up! Ch53k the 35 ton
Ru make the 38 ton Helo!

CH-53k MTOW is 38.4 metric tons, i.e. marginally higher than this Ru-Chi project,
and it will be in service well before this project is (first flight "around" 2020), so hardly "catching up".
This project seems set for better internal volume and likely a cheaper price, but MTOW and service date are not the #s to crow about.

from China Daily source:
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/166736/chinese_russian-joint-heavy-helicopter-to-fly-in-2020.html

The new helicopter's production will be based in China, he said, adding it will use the Ukraine-made Lotarev D-136 turboshaft engine at the initial mass-production stage.
"Our existing turboshaft engines' maximum output power is about 1,000 kilowatts, not powerful enough to propel the heavy-lift helicopter. The Chinese engineers are developing a 5,000-kilowatt turboshaft engine that can be used by the aircraft in the future," he said.

OK, they are saying the engine will be developed by China, but that may very well may mean there will be Chinese involvement in a largely Russian engine program.

Now this source is saying they are planning initial flight tests with the same D-136 engines as current Mi-26... Which given the MTOW is about 2/3 of Mi-26 would seem over-powered, albeit that perhaps isn't a problem per se... If the final 5000kW engines are used in a twin set-up, that would put the power:MTOW equivalent to Mi-26 (which could use 3x of the same engines in re-engined version).  But strangely the very equivalent CH-53K uses 3x 5000 kW engines, i.e. nearly the same power as Mi-26 for ~2/3 MTOW (akin to this Chi-46).   I suppose tweaking the engines for hot & high performance like HAL/Turbomeca's Shakti engines may account for some of this power/MTOW disparity, but I still feel like I'm missing something there...  And if this Chi-46 (for lack of better term at this point), uses 3x 5000kW engines like it's equivalent CH-53K, that would mean a re-engined Mi-26 should probably be using at least 4, which seems crazy.  If this Chi-46 used 2x and the Mi-26 NEO used 3x that would seem in line with current power:MTOW of Mi-26, but I don't know why CH-53K is departing from that so much...?

George1 wrote:Russian-Chinese AHL helicopter not to be delivered to Russian market

The Advanced Heavy Lift helicopter is developed jointly by Russian Helicopters and China’s AVIC (Aviation Industry Corporation of China)

KUALA LUMPUR, April 20. /TASS/. The Russian-Chinese AHL (Advanced Heavy Lift) helicopter is not expected to be delivered to the Russian market, international cooperation and regional policy director of the Russian State Corporation Rostec Viktor Kladov said on Wednesday.

"China is going to create a helicopter with the lifting capacity of about 12-14 tons, that is, an intermediate version between a medium-and heavy-class helicopter. This is an aircraft for the Chinese market. It is not needed for the Russian market, as we have the universal family Mi-17 helicopters that cover all the essential needs, and the modernized Mi-26 helicopter is used for super-heavy loads. We are not interested in an intermediate version. Therefore, we are working here for the Chinese on their terms of reference," the official said at DSA 2016 (Defense Services Asia 2016) international defense show.

AHL is developed jointly by Russian Helicopters and China’s AVIC (Aviation Industry Corporation of China). The aircraft’s take-off weight is expected to be 38.2 tons, and the lifting capacity - from 10 to 15 tons. The helicopter’s speed will be 300 km per hour, the flight range will reach 630 km and service ceiling - 5,700 meters.

In early March, Rostec Director General Sergei Chemezov said that the engine for this helicopter would be created no earlier than in two or three years.


More:
http://tass.ru/en/economy/871473

Good.

The Russian MIC should do less joint contracts, and more design and consulting for foreign arms producers. There are less strings attached, and the fees go back into R&D without getting lost in good will gesture procurement of equipment that isn't needed.

Viktor whats your thoughts about this development:

Russia and China started the first-ever joint missile defense exercise on computer

magnumcromagnon wrote:Viktor whats your thoughts about this development:

Russia and China started the first-ever joint missile defense exercise on computer

Although not a military alliance (and most likely will formally never be) Russia and China are practicing effectively sealling off the central Asia space with AD. I think it is clear why.

Any color revolution ignitiated against any of their allied state will relieve the terrorist in that case from any meaningfull armed resistance which is a next step in case

"peacefull" protest fail as we see the same happened in Syria.

China, Russia Progress in Talks to Produce Heavy-Lift Helicopters
http://english.china.com/news/china/54/20170914/1076297.html

The helicopter will be designed with a take-off weight of 38 tonnes, with internal cargo capacity of 10 tonnes and external sling capacity of 15 tonnes. It will be able to fly over plateaus higher than 3,000 meters and maneuver among mountains,..[it] will be fitted with aero-engines on a par with those on Russia’s Mi-26,..

It'll have export potential to Pakistan & Latin American countries such as Mexico, Venezuela & Peru which already operate Mi-8/17/26s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mil_Mi-8/17_operators

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-26#Military_operators