Soviet era reserve vehicles.

As many will know, that Russia has huge stock piles of vehicles in reserve the numbers are truely staggering and i wouldnt be surprised if Russia had the biggest reserves of vehicles.

Just a quick look at the numbers, these are approximate figures. Its always hard to tell how many are in reserve and in what state. If anyone has more accurate figures please share them.

4,500 T-80's
8,000 T72's
10,000 BMP 1's
6,500 BMP 2's
2,400 BMD 1's
1,500 BMD 2's
5,000 MT-LB's
1,400 2S1's
1,600 2S3's
500 2S5's
2,200 BM21's
90 BM27's
as well 3,000 field artillery pieces.
and i am sure there will be many more various vehicles including the BTR 152/50/60/70/80, BDRM 2's, ZSU 23-4's, T-55's, T-62/64's, PT-76's, FROG-7's, Tochka's and air defence vehicles.
And this is just for vehicles just think of the reserves for the Air forces, fixed wing, transport, helicopters etc.

so this makes me ask why??? and what to do with them???
of course some need to be kept incase of war, but the rest and just rusting away or gathering dust. Some of the vehicles could have upgrades done to them and offered for export to poor nations, but some are too old to be of much use other than being used for riot control, sold for scrap, sold as collectors vehicles  or sold to museums.
I read somewhere recently that the Russians were developing a new artillery recce vehicle based on the BMP 1.
The MT-LB's are probably the most useful and versatile of the vehicles above they have been used for loads of different uses.
when i was in Cambodia i saw a T-55 chassis with a 140mm BM-14 on top of it.   

So if anyone has any information, ideas for upgrades, or views on this please share.

d_taddei2 wrote:As many will know, that Russia has huge stock piles of vehicles in reserve the numbers are truely staggering and i wouldnt be surprised if Russia had the biggest reserves of vehicles.

Just a quick look at the numbers, these are approximate figures. Its always hard to tell how many are in reserve and in what state. If anyone has more accurate figures please share them.

4,500 T-80's
8,000 T72's
10,000 BMP 1's
6,500 BMP 2's
2,400 BMD 1's
1,500 BMD 2's
5,000 MT-LB's
1,400 2S1's
1,600 2S3's
500 2S5's
2,200 BM21's
90 BM27's
as well 3,000 field artillery pieces.
and i am sure there will be many more various vehicles including the BTR 152/50/60/70/80, BDRM 2's, ZSU 23-4's, T-55's, T-62/64's, PT-76's, FROG-7's, Tochka's and air defence vehicles.
And this is just for vehicles just think of the reserves for the Air forces, fixed wing, transport, helicopters etc.

so this makes me ask why??? and what to do with them???
of course some need to be kept incase of war, but the rest and just rusting away or gathering dust. Some of the vehicles could have upgrades done to them and offered for export to poor nations, but some are too old to be of much use other than being used for riot control, sold for scrap, sold as collectors vehicles  or sold to museums.
I read somewhere recently that the Russians were developing a new artillery recce vehicle based on the BMP 1.
The MT-LB's are probably the most useful and versatile of the vehicles above they have been used for loads of different uses.
when i was in Cambodia i saw a T-55 chassis with a 140mm BM-14 on top of it.   

So if anyone has any information, ideas for upgrades, or views on this please share.

Simple. They take the vehicle to the local "goldhands" mechanic, who tear it apart, "upgrade", add all that protective frame structure (like in rally cars), generally try to create the design as creepy as possible. And then they drive around the roads, scaring people, and filming all that for youtube clip, which is usually titled "wonders of russia" or "russians having fun" or something like that   

On another thread it was mentioned that 14,000 vehicles will be withdrawn... didn't say what they were doing with them, but removing them from service and their logistics pool of parts and components and ammo types should free up money and storage space and personel... and be a very nice 2014 Xmas present...

Add your name to this list if you want a vehicle or two:

GarryB
...

honestly. i want to own T-80U and T-72.   

Reserve vehicles are meant for reserve units. In case of war, reserve units are mobilized and they need their equipment from reserve stocks. Active units could not give them their own. Russia have combined army whit professional and conscript units, which give them large reserve for case of war.

gib T-72s plox. next time armatas plox.

collegeboy16 wrote:gib T-72s plox. next time armatas plox.

Damn tank beggars.

TR1 wrote:

collegeboy16 wrote:gib T-72s plox. next time armatas plox.

Damn tank beggars.

They're still better than oil or loan beggars, don't you agree?

On another matter, if you want to actually use your vehicle (and not just place it in front of your dacha gates ) tank may not be the best option, they're gas guzzlers. Much better would be lighter vehicles, like MT-LB, BTRs. I think, that in my country one dude owns an old M113, uses it as bulldozer or something

Give some T-80s and BMP-2s to Syria and maybe even bulgaria  ?

T-80 would be a terrible choice, when Russia still has a metric shit-ton of T-72s.

TR1 wrote:T-80 would be a terrible choice, when Russia still has a metric shit-ton of T-72s.

Why?
If the issue is engine, you could replace it fairly cheaply with Ukrainian 6TD.

1.) Syria has no experience with T-80s. Crews have lots of experience with T-72.
2.) Fuel consumption.
3.) T-72B is better armored, and auto loader is a bit less exposed.
4.) Urban combat makes the T-80s advantages (missile use, more advanced fire control) minimal.

Take your pick.

Replacing with 6TD is neither cheap not easy, and is especially non applicable in this scenario.
Syria needs tanks it can fight with, for cheap.

TR1 wrote:1.) Syria has no experience with T-80s. Crews have lots of experience with T-72.
2.) Fuel consumption.
3.) T-72B is better armored, and auto loader is a bit less exposed.
4.) Urban combat makes the T-80s advantages (missile use, more advanced fire control) minimal.

Take your pick.

Replacing with 6TD is neither cheap not easy, and is especially non applicable in this scenario.
Syria needs tanks it can fight with, for cheap.

Oh, you meant Syria...

I was thinking more of just simple export
My bad...

KomissarBojanchev wrote:Give some T-80s and BMP-2s to Syria and maybe even bulgaria  ?

There is a fear from the west that Russia-Iran oil for goods deal inculudes Syria also and if you look at Russian plans to withdraw 14 000 armour this year, much of it could end up in Syria as it should in that case. Excellent deal for Russia.

There is a fear from the west that Russia-Iran oil for goods deal inculudes Syria also and if you look at Russian plans to withdraw 14 000 armour this year, much of it could end up in Syria as it should in that case. Excellent deal for Russia.

And excellent deal for Syria.

Of the 14,000 vehicles withdrawn this year only a small percentage will be MBTs... for every MBT there are dozens of other vehicles.

Personally I think a BTR-80 or BRDM-3 would be fun... the latter being the one with the fully retractable 5 tube launcher for the AT-4/AT-5 missile system.

A Shilka would be a hoot, and an OSA would be fun too.

A Scud missile truck would be fun... especially if you remodelled it into a campertruck with a fake missile that does not raise that can be used for extra internal volume.

thanks for the replies. does anyone an the article about the withdrawal of the 14,000 vehicles?

I wonder if they will upgrade any of the older stuff and sell as export to poorer countries, if they will just focus on selling modern stuff?

Id imagine that Syria, and some of the poor custom union countries may get some aswell as Tajkistan army more upto date vehicles or just more vehicles for when the pull out in Afhgan happens.


I suppose they can also be used as bargaining chips with poorer countries or to sweeten deals.

d_taddei2 wrote:thanks for the replies. does anyone an the article about the withdrawal of the 14,000 vehicles?

I wonder if they will upgrade any of the older stuff and sell as export to poorer countries, if they will just focus on selling modern stuff?

Id imagine that Syria, and some of the poor custom union countries may get some aswell as Tajkistan army more upto date vehicles or just more vehicles for when the pull out in Afhgan happens.


I suppose they can also be used as bargaining chips with poorer countries or to sweeten deals.

Here is the LINK

Than you have this link

Russia to Supply Arms to Kyrgyzstan in 2014

and I guess some of withdrawn arms will end up in Kyrgyzstan ...

and this link

Moscow to rearm Tajikistan’s army

so yes, I think on withdrawn weapons will be applied modernization and weapons transfered to its destination

I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".

TR1 wrote:I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".

TBH the next gen of armored vehicles is coming at a terribly slow rate. 

The US has the A3 Abrams and nothing even close to advanced development to replace that. Along with what is basically recycled crap to replace the legendary M113 etc. I mean they are still talking about a 80 ton Bradley-replacement if that tells you anything...

Germany has been talking about a Leo 3 but they seem to be prefer just upgrading the Leo 2 chassis. All their current vehicles except for maybe the Leo 2 will be in service till the 30's at least (Boxer, Puma etc are inter-gen).

And most other countries are doing the same thing... The Armata family should be the first true "next gen family" of armored vehicles. Kinda like the T-80 of next gen if you get what I mean.

TR1 wrote:
I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".

They don't have to replace every single BMP2 and T-72, no country could afford replacing 7000 tanks with such new vehicle that will burn through 40 years military budget for procurement.

Mike E wrote:
TBH the next gen of armored vehicles is coming at a terribly slow rate. 

The US has the A3 Abrams and nothing even close to advanced development to replace that. Along with what is basically recycled crap to replace the legendary M113 etc. I mean they are still talking about a 80 ton Bradley-replacement if that tells you anything...

Germany has been talking about a Leo 3 but they seem to be prefer just upgrading the Leo 2 chassis. All their current vehicles except for maybe the Leo 2 will be in service till the 30's at least (Boxer, Puma etc are inter-gen).

everyone with designs for next gen AFVs are gonna be looking real hard at what the Russians will field in the coming years, and so there is real pressure on the them not to fck it up- any mistake made is another potential advantage for those taking notes.

ive read about the leo 3 being a french-german joint effort, leoclec or sumthin. tho whatever they produce would cost like an attack helo

Mike E wrote:
And most other countries are doing the same thing... The Armata family should be the first true "next gen family" of armored vehicles. Kinda like the T-80 of next gen if you get what I mean.

more like T-72, if talking about MBT which is sanitized version of the monster that is T-95.

Werewolf wrote:

TR1 wrote:
I have a feeling by the time all BMP-2s and T-72s are gone from the fleet, the new vehicles will no longer be "without analogues".

They don't have to replace every single BMP2 and T-72, no country could afford replacing 7000 tanks with such new vehicle that will burn through 40 years military budget for procurement.

exactly the T-72, BMP-2, BTR 80A/82 will be around for some time yet,
i would imagine they will replaced units using older equipment first.
i.e units still using BMP-1 first, theirs roughly 650 of them still in service, and 10,000 in reserve, Russia really needs to start selling these off to poorer nations.
BMP-2 about 1,850 in service and 6,500 in reserve.
1,100 BTR 80/80A/82 in service. Some BTR 60 and 70's are still in service in small numbers, nearly 4,000 BTR 60's in reserve these really need to sold of soon.
T-72's in service roughly 2,200 (of various variants) and 8,000 in reserve.
As for T-80 these are slowly being phased out 1,400 in service, 3,000 in reserve, these should be sold off i think and just keep T-72 in reserve.
And of course the T-90 and BMP-3 roughly 700 of each in service will still be service for a long time.
And MT-LB theirs roughly 1,500 in service, and 5,000 in reserve, these will also be replaced at a slow rate. And i haven't even covered the replacement of artilley units and the BMD's in airbourne units.

Mobile warfare that seems to be out of the Russian reserve by the begin of 2018:

Being in charge of the defense of some of the less advanced countries, and in the case of having some of them (not all, of course), this is the old mobile warfare that I would sale for fast use, without buy new units and without expend money on upgrades or repairs:

SU-122
BM-13
SU-100
T-34
BM-24
BTR-40
BTR-152
BM-14
BRDM-1
PT-76
BTR-50
SA-9
GT-MU

Il-28
MiG-15
Tu-16
MiG-17
Be-12

This is the old mobile warfare that I would keep, without spend money on upgrades basically because they are too old:

FROG-1
ZSU-57-2
FROG-2
FROG-3/5
ASU-85
IS-10/T-10
SS-12/22
FROG-7
T-54
T-62
T-55
AT-T

MiG-19
Yak-27
Su-9
Su-11
Yak-28
Su-7
Yak-38
Su-15

Some of the warfare of this group was not exported, but I wanted to put all them together. Also I wanted to include the aircrafts in all the groups.

And this would be the old mobile warfare that I would keep and where I would be open to upgrades:

T-64

MiG-21

Mobile warfare that seems to be in the Russian reserve by the begin of 2018:

I would be open to buy at the right price, every type of vehicle that Russia wants to quit from its reserve warfare, except the Il-38, that would go to the first group when retired.

I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago?

When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles?

When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust?

If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials...

Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks?

Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes"

With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ?

I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army?

Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well?

How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc

Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so

I was wondering, what has russia done with the 14,000 AFV that it retired a few years ago? Junking or storage for possible sales.

When Putin ordered the T55,T62 & T64 to be withdrawn from active service were they sold off or scraped or put into storage? What exactly is the plan for all these vehicles? Understand 55 & 62 to junk. T-64 storage for possible sale.

When vehicles are put into storage in russia what are the conditions like, is it facilities protected from weather or are they just left out in the open to rust? Out in the open with at most a tarp. This includes used equipment. Just starting to build vehicle shelters.

If you are going to leave them out in the open exposed to elements and they are going to decay why not just scrap them strait away, at least you make jobs for a period of time and can get some use out of old materials...

Ive seen on wikipedia (dont know how reliable) that russia still has 7,000 BMP1's. Whats the current plan for all those, are they going to swap out main guns on them to BMP2 in future or let them rust in junkyards, sell them or auto-mate them into robot tanks? Most are junk. BMP-1 & 2's are not popular.


Ive seen american documentary that afghanistan is still using t62's why doesnt russia supply them with replacement t62s to reduce its arsenal? They currently have 40 working vehicles left i think - just type into google "t62 stars and stripes"

With the reduction in defence budget and the surplus of hulls will they go ahead with the t55 heavy infantry transport to save costs and increase protection ? Really don't see it.

I am not sure I follow the understanding between the active russian army and the reserve russian army - this reserve army used for fighting in the CIS for low technology wars - is this the same as the amalgamation of the interior ministry troops, border guards and drug units? Is the intent to keep t72, t80 and t90 for the contractor/professional full time army and to use up all the t64,t62,t55,bmp1/2 in the reserve army? What reserve army are you talking about?

Will this reserve army be manned by conscripts or contractors as well? Not sure what you are talking about.

How do the russians think about return on investment in terms of equipment? I mean it cost them billions to make all these vehicles, how much use or return do they aim to get out of each vehicle before they decide to chuck them out? Is there a pre-determined number or rough goal? e.g. if they got 30 years service out of a single t62 then what happens to it next is not important as it achieved the desired return on investment so it doesnt matter if it gets scrapped, sold off, donated etc ... Junk is junk. A T-62 would be 40-50 years old.

Sorry for the long list of questions, these are all thoughts i have been wondering about for the past 2 years or so