Russian Assault Rifles/Carbines/Machine Guns Thread: #1

GarryB wrote:Merging several very capable arms factories is a good way of greatly increasing their strength and potential.

With WTO entry it should be a lot simpler and cheaper to export Russian weapons now and lets face it they will likely have some very nice new products to sell including multicalibre modular designs.

Now that they are looking at long range accuracy I think their exports of bolt action and long range rifles will also find a niche market in the west.

It all depends. Like I mentioned in another thread, the accesson into WTO has not proven to be bennificial for Russia, but more of a blight with current issues (blacklisting of company, low investments, etc). And with many gun companies now in the US are owned by few groups, lobbying may not be hard to push a ban on purchases of Russian guns.

That said though, if they do not, there is a great lucrative market, that is for sure. And I do agree, joining the two companies together will help increase efficiency and industrial strength, as they can offshoot development between each other, as well as concentrate the total budget of the company on key products (so allowing more funds into one project), while also maintaining one group of management rather than two different ones. Management being the biggest issue for the industry.

I do look forward to what will happen. Although with the current management of Kalashnikov, I am not entirely in high hopes. But, let us wait and see. Tula plant seems to not get much love these days either.

And with many gun companies now in the US are owned by few groups, lobbying may not be hard to push a ban on purchases of Russian guns.

But they wont be able to ban Russian arms now that Russia has joined the WTO... that is what the WTO is all about... you can't select one countries products and disadvantage them against another countries or domestic products of the same type. That means no tariffs or import charges and no selective bans and no requirements that they have components or are completely built or assembled locally.

If the US bans Russian firearms then Russia is allowed to ban US products till it is sorted out.

I was wondering, wouldn't be cheaper to issue a kits to existing Russian AK-74 and give to army armouries to modify them, rather than introducing new rifle?

It would be challenging to meaningfully correct the weaknesses of the AK-74M with aftermarket parts.

It would be challenging to meaningfully correct the weaknesses of the AK-74M with aftermarket parts.

Very good point.

There is not an enormous number of problems with the AK, fundamentally it is a very good rifle.

The thing is that you have the choice of making cosmetic changes that fix a few small problems (ie fit rails so tacticrap can be fitted more easily and make the barrel a little heavier to improve accuracy)... but then where do you draw the line.

Spending a little bit of money to fix the small problems... or spending a bit more to fix all the problems and further enhance its performance to make it a much better family of weapons in a modular format that can be adapted to a range of tasks rapidly and easily.

In terms of ergonomics the AK12 can be used left or right handed without time consuming adjustments... by the look of it I would say move the rear latch to raise the receiver and then take the cocking handle and rotate it over 180 degrees from one side to the other and that is it... drop down the receiver and fix the latch and you can cock the weapon with your other hand... you can already use the safety and fire selector with either thumb.

Will be interesting to see the AK12SN multi calibre system, but most soldiers wont worry about that... they will get the rifle they are issued with... though their might be a bit of horse trading where some soldier might want a longer barrel for longer range accuracy whereas other soldiers might want shorter lighter barrels etc etc.

Small arms for an entire army don't cost as much as a single strategic bomber so spending a little more to get a much better system makes sense in my opinion.

Current AKs are probably in the $400-$500 range to make... the AK12SN will probably cost $700-800 to make... with civilian models likely costing $1,500-2,000 depending on the model and the market... In other words I think it will still be cheaper than western rifles in the same class.

Screenshot from the Navy Day festivities in Vladivostok.

ADS in service already???

Yes...

Awesome.

Now I would love to see some VDV with this rifle too... never satisfied am I...   

By the way, I forget to link to the video where that photo was taken from.
here it is:

http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201307281332-507j.htm

Well if this is being used in exercises you would have to say it has been adopted.

They are hardly going to use experimental equipment during an exercise unless this is part of testing.

://www.arms-expo.ru/im.xp/049057049054053056050051.jpg

Take a look at this , photo taken at the 'Day of Innovation' 20th August . Whats that in the top left hand corner ? a bullpup ?

Yes, but which one?

ADS?

I suspect it is not the ASh-12.7 as the mag looks like a 5.45 x 39mm calibre weapon.

AUGustinski?
Hey people, have You ever seen rifle called VS- 8 (ВС-8 )? Can't find any videos of it.

Picture belongs to V. Kuzmin  

The picture you posted and the picture above are the only photos I can remember seeing of this rifle...

Larger >>> http://s4.uploads.ru/jOde1.jpg



>>> http://s5.uploads.ru/B2Zb5.jpg



>>> http://s5.uploads.ru/tzQ0S.jpg



>>> http://s4.uploads.ru/aJdqm.jpg



The stock on the AK-12 is in desperate need of a cheek riser.

Notice on the cards next to the rifles, "Kalashnikov".

Izhmash is gone...

Wow, what are those bullpups?

Aside from what is written on the cards, I don't know much about them.

AS-1 and AS-2 are a 5.56 and a 7.62 round assault rifles. New showcasing from izmash. Dont forget, new director is from tula plant which was all about bullpup. Apparently it is geared towards special units in the Russian federation. The website has news on the showcasing and mentions it.

Take a look at this , photo taken at the 'Day of Innovation' 20th August . Whats that in the top left hand corner ? a bullpup ?

The answer to your question is revealed...

The stock on the AK-12 is in desperate need of a cheek riser.

They have one. Look closely at the bottom of the stock there is a small bump before the stock curves down... and above that area there is a line etched... remember this rifle can be fired left or right handed so  the cheek rest area is large on both sides and can be raised in addition to the buttstock being able to be adjusted for length and angle.

Oops, now that I look at the high res images they don't seem to have the fully adjustable stock any more.

I guess that is now an optional extra.

As a bonus I see on the high res photo straight on of the AK12 with the drum mag (95 rounds capacity) in the bottom of the shot you can see the VS-121.

It is all Kalashnikov now baby...

But they mentioned they were working on bullpup rifles/family weapons in addition to the AK12 which are just max mods of AK-74Ms.

They said they had bullpups when they revealed the VS-121 (bullpup SVD).

On the updated webpage for Kalashnikov they mention that the SV-98 and SV-338 have interchangable barrels:

Concern "Kalashnikov" will present promising developments
Innovation Day at the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

On August 20, the Day of Innovation of the Ministry of Defense Russian concern "Kalashnikov" provide experienced, forward-looking and are mass-produced armaments that address the needs of the military.

Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu to show 15 samples of small arms and high-precision weapons which concern "Kalashnikov" is ready to produce for the paramilitary units. Among them:

- 4 different upgrade the AK-74, AK-12 in a variety of calibers, upgraded AK-103-3, and a sniper rifle SVDm developed under the ROC "Warrior";

- Special machines - AS-1 in caliber 5.45 x 39 mm and AS-2 of 7.62 × 39 mm, designed to order the FSB to carry out special operations;

- Sniper Rifle-121 aircraft with the scheme "bullpup";

- High-precision rifle SV-98 and SV-338M1 (interchangeable barrel), developed on the basis of an aluminum box with the ability to install any optical and night sights;

- Small melee weapon - a smoothbore shotgun 18.5 COP-K and submachine gun PP-19 "Vityaz-SN", produced commercially for the supply of the Interior Ministry;

- Precision projectile "Kitolov-2" and others.

Source: http://www.izhmash.ru/rus/news/190813.shtml with google translation.

So the SV-98 and SV-338M1 have interchangeable barrels to change between 7.62 x 54mm and 338 LM and the AS-1 and AS-2 are for the FSB...

It looks like they finally did something about the mag release.

?

What was wrong with the mag release?

Personally I find it solid and reliable and easy to use with standard mags.

With small mags you need to use one hand to hold the rifle and one hand to move the release and hold the mag which as the mag is small there is nothing to hold which is a pain... but hardly relevant to military users who will use standard 30 round mags anyway.

AS-1 and AS-2 are a 5.56 and a 7.62 round assault rifles.

AS-3 might be 5.56, but the AS-1 and AS-2 are offered to FSB units in 5.45 and 7.62 x 39mm calibre.

It is funny but if you count the 7.62 x 54mm VS-121 then with the AS-1 and VS-121 Kalashnikov have the bullpup equivalent of the AK12 large frame and small frame rifles...

Ak-74 bullpup conversion?

Judging by the parts, it looks like another Zenith modification. This company has some crazy gunsmiths.

So I was reading this article about the Ratnik Future Soldier System: http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_03_19/...e-future-1851/

And while reading it I came across this:

"We have to choose between the new Kalashnikov AK-12 assault rifle and the AEK-971 assault rifle of the Kovrov Mechanical Plant. The problem now is that the rifle should be offered in different modifications, namely for mechanized infantry, for tank crews, paratroopers and task forces. The rifle also needs a set of sights to it, to fire at daytime and at night".

The expert council of the Military Industrial Commission will have the final say. The council is due to meet in May.

So which one would you guys prefer to see adopted? AEK or AK-12?   

Cpt Caz wrote:So I was reading this article about the Ratnik Future Soldier System: http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_03_19/...e-future-1851/

And while reading it I came across this:

"We have to choose between the new Kalashnikov AK-12 assault rifle and the AEK-971 assault rifle of the Kovrov Mechanical Plant. The problem now is that the rifle should be offered in different modifications, namely for mechanized infantry, for tank crews, paratroopers and task forces. The rifle also needs a set of sights to it, to fire at daytime and at night".

The expert council of the Military Industrial Commission will have the final say. The council is due to meet in May.

So which one would you guys prefer to see adopted? AEK or AK-12?   

Actually both, for the average soldier the more simple AK-12 and the specialized units which are more likey to face urban warfare with AEK-973 (7.62x39mm).

I agree with Werewolf for the same reasons.

However, I might lean more towards the AEK if I actually had the opportunity to handle it. I'm very interested in the details and the overall quality/finish of the weapon.

It would not hurt to integrate both weapons, but I suspect the multi calibre AK12SN might have an advantage with SMG, carbine, rifle, and LMG weapons shown already.

I think the AK12 has better ergonomics than the AEKs we have seen, though to be fair we have not seen many AEK models in recent versions.