Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Viktor wrote:Whats the idea of laying new ships while not constructing present ones?

This does not make sense.

Money? or waiting for some technology?

I would suggest lack of parts from any of the 100´s companies involved.
And yes, perhaps some money got lost on their way, as is unfortainly common in russia.
However, the construction of these ships are a top priority and they will be completed. Dont forget, its a massive buildup from scratsh, it takes some time to correct everything and get streamlined.

Well, if we look at the laying down of ships @ Severnaya during the 2000s, some of them were around election years, so really were political exercises. Many more were laid down than they actually funded fully at once. Also, greed, corruption, you know the drill. Now that funding has seriously increased, let's hope the ships at Amur pick up on a good pace. Yantar seems to be making good pace, and Severnaya as well.

Also the systems that eventually found their way on the 20385 boats certainly took time to develop, but I am not sure if that was primary reason for the horribly slow pace on some of the ships.

http://flotprom.ru/publications/interview/fomichevfeb2012/

For some more good news. Laying down of the 4th 22350 hull, Admiral Yumashev, will likely happen this summer!
Also, Severnaya received permission to work with new nuclear propulsion systems. Looks like the possibility of a new nuclear destroyer is there.

TR1 wrote:http://flotprom.ru/publications/interview/fomichevfeb2012/

For some more good news. Laying down of the 4th 22350 hull, Admiral Yumashev, will likely happen this summer!
Also, Severnaya received permission to work with new nuclear propulsion systems. Looks like the possibility of a new nuclear destroyer is there.

Yes, nuclear destroyers and such also implies nuclear aircraft carriers.

Excellent news for 22350.

In the 1980s the Su-27 Flanker airframes were building up at factories because the makers of the avionics were having a hard time going from prototype to mass production of new electronics.

Once the systems are developed and tested properly and proper production capacity is ready they should catch up fine.

Northern Shipyard to Build 13 Warships for Russian Navy

RIA Novosti

14:16 21/02/2012 MOSCOW, February 21 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's Northern Shipyard (Severnaya Verf) has a contract with the Defense Ministry to build a total of 13 warships for the Russian Navy, the shipyard’s general director, Andrei Fomichev, said on Tuesday.

These include six corvettes, six frigates and one reconnaissance ship, he said.

On February 1, the St. Petersburg based shipyard started construction of two warships - the Project 20385 Gremyashchy corvette and the Project 22350 Admiral Golovko frigate.

The Steregushchy and the Soobrazitelny corvettes have already been completed and transferred to the Navy, Fomichev said.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2012/russia-120221-rianovosti02.htm

Excellent news.

Also regarding the Pantsir-S1 in its naval version... very interesting... they have kept the tracking radar and optics, but have clearly shifted the search radar functions to perhaps the main ship surveillance radar.

Makes a lot of sense as the main radar will have continuous 360 degree view and being an AESA should be able to operate in a LPI mode that doesn't give the game away.

I rather suspect they have retained the 4 missile arrangement to allow existing under deck reloading to be implimented.

This means that 32 missiles per weapon platform can be carried, with 8 on the launcher and a further 24 missiles under deck.

The 3rd 11356M hull, the Admiral Makarov, is being laid down in 4 days.

Yes the construction is speeding up, many new ships will hit the water in coming years. But really, nuclear destroyers? That would be VERY expensive and i should say, save it to cruisers, both old ones and new.
Or, are the new destroyers instead of cruisers as USUK have changed the game?

Whatever, these new ships will have excellente performance and is badly needed.

runaway wrote:Yes the construction is speeding up, many new ships will hit the water in coming years. But really, nuclear destroyers? That would be VERY expensive and i should say, save it to cruisers, both old ones and new.
Or, are the new destroyers instead of cruisers as USUK have changed the game?

Whatever, these new ships will have excellente performance and is badly needed.

I think that when we speak about 10.000 ton vessels the difference between destroyer and cruiser is nonexistent. I also think that the new combatant must transfer at least 32 UKSK cells (double than project 22350) so as to have significant land attack capability.

I really don't think the new ships will be 10,000 tons. We have seen the Russian Navy take a tiered approach (20380- ~2200 tons; 22350 - ~ 4500 tons), so I think the destroyer class will be around the size of previous "destroyers" (956, 1155) and will displace from anywhere around 6000 to 7000 tons.

In other news, the 4th 11356M hull, the Admiral Kornilov, is planned for laying down in the 2nd half of this year. Apparently it is also going to the BSF. Seems this is confirmation that the BSF is indeed getting 6 11356 frigates. As I have stated before, I think this is way overkill for the fleet.

The future Russian Navy will not be the Soviet fleet, it will be reduced in number.

The initial high cost of nuclear reactors could be justified with the lower operational costs and unlimited range and high speed performance such propulsion systems would bestow.

A brand new up to date design might not need refuelling in the life time of the ship with high automation and safety failsafes.

I would expect a Destroyer to carry 4 UKSK launchers with a total of 32 tubes for a variety of missiles and it would be a very capable platform on its own or as part of a surface task force.

I agree that a 10,000 ton destroyer would be a bit excessive, even with nuclear propulsion, and with the unification of weapons and sensors there is little need for making them that big.

Regarding the Black Sea Fleet, you need to remember that the Black Sea is not the Caspian Sea.

I would suspect if they had 6 Frigates attached to the Black Sea Fleet then 2-3 of them would likely be spending a lot of time at Tartus and of course off the coast of Africa looking for Pirates.

Visits to the Med will also be common too.

I just hope they don't go too far and try to cram too much into each vessel. Not every vessel in the Navy need to be equipped to fight WWIII on its own.

Of the designs of the 1980s/1970s I think one of my favourites was the Krivak class, which was quite moderately armed in comparison with modern vessels.

In fact modern missile patrol boats could be better armed, with a 100mm new light gun, Medvedka launcher at the rear and a Pantsir-S1 launcher front and back... but the Krivak design was so elegant.

Now of course it is the basis of the Talwars.

This is turning out to be a huge year for the RuNavy,

If I am not mixing anything up (been a busy day), in 2012 we have seen/expect to see:
Several new nuclear subs commissioned into the fleet;
2 11356 frigates laid down;
2 22350 frigates laid down;
2 20380/20385 corvettes laid down;
Mistral laid down....

I'm sure I am forgetting something

Yes you are.

From memory:

Second Kilo class for Black Sea laid down.
One more Dyugon amphibious laid down.


And by the way, we are still in March. More to see later in the year.

So many surface vessels from frigate up that we see being built but have not seen at sea fully armed...

Hopefully soon we will see the new Indian carrier, and a few new Russian Frigates and Corvettes and perhaps in a couple of years a Russian Destroyer... and Mistral class carrier...

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267443&download=2

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267444&download=2

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267445&download=2

Good photos of 22350 model.

nice, thanks for posting.

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267709&download=2

Hell of a photo. We can see Grigorovich nearing hull completion, Ivan Gren, and in the foreground, the unlucky pair, Novik and Tuman.

TR1 wrote:http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267443&download=2

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267444&download=2

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267445&download=2

Good photos of 22350 model.

Whats up with those empty spaces right and left from the UKSK launchers.

Can it be used to place more missiles?

Nice Photo TR1

The fact that the newer Frigate and Corvette will be armed with Kalbir Multipurpose Missile with range of 2500 km and Onisk with range of 300-400 km presents a very frightening possibility to any adversary.

Kalbir itself has Anti-Surface , Anti-Ship and ASW missile.

TR1 how many Anti-Surface and SAM will 22350 will have ? I can see VLS launcher in the fore and aft of the ship hull

GarryB wrote:The future Russian Navy will not be the Soviet fleet, it will be reduced in number.

The initial high cost of nuclear reactors could be justified with the lower operational costs and unlimited range and high speed performance such propulsion systems would bestow.

A brand new up to date design might not need refuelling in the life time of the ship with high automation and safety failsafes.

I would expect a Destroyer to carry 4 UKSK launchers with a total of 32 tubes for a variety of missiles and it would be a very capable platform on its own or as part of a surface task force.

I agree that a 10,000 ton destroyer would be a bit excessive, even with nuclear propulsion, and with the unification of weapons and sensors there is little need for making them that big.

Regarding the Black Sea Fleet, you need to remember that the Black Sea is not the Caspian Sea.

I would suspect if they had 6 Frigates attached to the Black Sea Fleet then 2-3 of them would likely be spending a lot of time at Tartus and of course off the coast of Africa looking for Pirates.

Visits to the Med will also be common too.

I just hope they don't go too far and try to cram too much into each vessel. Not every vessel in the Navy need to be equipped to fight WWIII on its own.

Of the designs of the 1980s/1970s I think one of my favourites was the Krivak class, which was quite moderately armed in comparison with modern vessels.

In fact modern missile patrol boats could be better armed, with a 100mm new light gun, Medvedka launcher at the rear and a Pantsir-S1 launcher front and back... but the Krivak design was so elegant.

Now of course it is the basis of the Talwars.

Yes the Ru Navy isn't the Soviet one Garry. But it must still defend itself and its interests. There's a meddling America, a growing China, and other countries with a mindset we can't necessarily predict. ( eg that nutjob Sakashvilli).

There isn't necessarily an arms race going on. Infact, there isn't one, full stop ( barring America's ABM nonsense). But I don't think Russia should allow America to interfere willy-nilly, now she has recovered from the post-Communist difficulties.

The big question is, what is Russia's place in the modern world? I suspect the best situation would be closer working with some European countries eg Fra, Ger, Italy. And key partners like Vietnam, Venezuela, India.Maybe Brazil and places?
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I don't think a 10k destroyer is that big - if its nuclear. Wouldn't the plant add 3k tons over a conventional power system?

Viktor wrote:

TR1 wrote:http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267443&download=2

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267444&download=2

http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=267445&download=2

Good photos of 22350 model.

Whats up with those empty spaces right and left from the UKSK launchers.

Can it be used to place more missiles?

They were called "technological openings"...so likely reloading spaces or something similar.

Austin wrote:Nice Photo TR1

The fact that the newer Frigate and Corvette will be armed with Kalbir Multipurpose Missile with range of 2500 km and Onisk with range of 300-400 km presents a very frightening possibility to any adversary.

Kalbir itself has Anti-Surface , Anti-Ship and ASW missile.

TR1 how many Anti-Surface and SAM will 22350 will have ? I can see VLS launcher in the fore and aft of the ship hull

16 UKSK-tubes, and from what I can see, 28 Redut cells. I don't think there are any cells in the aft.

TR1 wrote:

16 UKSK-tubes, and from what I can see, 28 Redut cells. I don't think there are any cells in the aft.

Austin is right. There are two UKSK sized spaces at the back only marked by just as in front by the UKSK launchers.

They are not cells though, at least not that I have seen in any models.