Russian Navy: Status & News #1

Austin wrote:So 24 submarine it is , 8 Borei , 8 Yasen and 8 Coventional subs ?

6 Kilo and 2-3 Lada

I don't think so - from 2010-2012, 3 Kilos were laid down. Another 3 will be laid down in next 2, 3 years max. So before 2020 there is easily enough space for more new Kilos/modernized Kilos.

runaway wrote:

medo wrote:Will they be build only for Caspian Sea or they will also serve in other fleets, like Black Sea or Baltic?

I think they will serve in both Baltic and Black sea, there is a need of modernisation of the old Tarantula boats.

And Gary, the Northern fleet of 2000, scared none. Even today, the legacy is warships from the 80´s and early 90´s.

About Kursk, after the collision, the subs would be well aware where they had each other, well enough to fire a torpedo...
I dont say i beilive in the teory, but its to many uncertain things in the chain of events to entirely buy the official version.

Which is exactly how old (if not older!) the US and British subs of the period were .

Just a back of the envelop data shows that Russian Navy will have atleast 6 Conventional SSK.

6 Kilo or modernised Kilo has been allocated for BSF
3 Lada class will come along either in pacific or some where else.

So 9 Submarine is easily guranteed it may be more but not certain.

Are older Kilo in Russian Navy getting modernised , Considering India has followed a similar approach i think its worth modernising the older Kilo.

I would say the Navy are getting one Lada class sub and two Lada-M class SSKs.

The original Lada will likely be kept for testing purposes so they don't have to take an operational sub out of service to test a new torpedo or other system.

Regarding the older Kilos I suspect it probably depends.

The new Russian Navy can't afford to grow to be too big, so older Kilos might go into the reserves and get only modest upgrades, while money is spent on new models and new builds.

It certainly wouldn't be impossible that older models could be sold off fairly cheaply... perhaps I should put in an offer because they are still excellent subs?

Austin wrote:Just a back of the envelop data shows that Russian Navy will have atleast 6 Conventional SSK.

6 Kilo or modernised Kilo has been allocated for BSF
3 Lada class will come along either in pacific or some where else.

So 9 Submarine is easily guranteed it may be more but not certain.

Are older Kilo in Russian Navy getting modernised , Considering India has followed a similar approach i think its worth modernising the older Kilo.

Yep, for example Kaluga is one Kilo that has been overhauled/modernized.

I am still not 100% sure that 6 Kilos will go to BSF. 3 for sure, and 6 is possible, but I hope it does not happen. An increase from 1 sub to 7 seems disproportional.

It could indicate that they want to expand operations out of the black sea and into the med and beyond.

So, in terms of ships being laid down 2012 is becoming one of the biggest in the history of the modern Russian Navy. Just a quick look yields impressive numbers, assuming plans for the last fall and winter go well:

Two 22350 frigates
Two 11356M frigates
Four 20380/20385 corvettes
Beginning of Mistral construction
One 995 ballistic missile sub (Ok, construction didn't really start in 2012)
One 885 attack submarines
Two 636 attack submarines

And that is just large combatants.

TR1 the information what BSF will get six new Kilo was reveled by Russian Naval official some time back , since they mentioned that BSF would be a priority for them

So iirc they says 6 new frigate Krivak class and 6 Kilo Subs

Interview with USC Chief

http://ria.ru/interview/20120831/733747023.html

I translated it :

Until the end of 2012 there were only four months, and the Russian shipbuilders must be able to transfer the Navy not only one but several new nuclear submarines. And the sign: head boat Project 955 "Yuri Dolgoruky" missile "Bulava", the first production of the same project, "Alexander Nevsky" and the head multipurpose nuclear submarine (APL) Project 885 "Severodvinsk" with cruise missiles, long range.

Does industry have time to take the ships on time or more will slip right?

On this and other issues at the request of our special correspondent Sergei Safronov agreed to answer defense procurement department head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), Anatoly helmets.

- Anatoly, completed a contracting state defense order for 2012?

- Contracts as on military shipbuilding and repair, upgrading and maintenance of ships entered almost in full.

There are certain questions on the third-generation nuclear submarine modernization in light of the recent orders of the government. These documents are available at the Ministry of Defence.

Has already signed more than 95% of the planned state defense order contracts, including the construction of five modernized "Bor-A" (Project 955 submarines, code "Borey-A", signed on 29 May 2012).

- What are the promising developments busy today shipbuilding design bureaus?

- Between 2011 and 2012, the designers had done a lot of research work is by definition image corvette of water region, the necessary documents are the main command of the Navy to make a final decision on this ship.

It will be a multipurpose vehicle with modularity units and systems to meet the challenges in the near sea zone. There are different variants of architecture and displacement of the ship, but no final decision has been made. It could be a classic pitching ships architecture, there are options of catamarans and trimarans.

In addition, work has been launched to determine the shape of multi-purpose ship far sea zone (the destroyer). There are options with conventional energy and nuclear.

Will choose the Defense Ministry in 2013. This will determine a displacement vessel. Atomic will, of course, more, because you have to be to place the reactor, but it will have an advantage in autonomous navigation. He will not need support vessels.

Work is underway to develop air-independent power plant (VNEU) for non-nuclear submarines and to create new advanced batteries (lithium).

On submarine design is not conducted, because it is only in the operation of the fourth generation of boats will be clear which direction to go next and how to effectively improve their operational and performance with the concept of the Navy.

Work is being done on the aircraft carrier, but the specific decision has also been taken. After all, the real work must begin when there is tactical and technical requirements of the Ministry of Defense, and it yet.

- Will be created in Russia naval missile defense (NMD) system similar to "Aegis" in the U.S.?

- This target is set, because it is very important from the point of view of naval ships in the missile defense system. Such a problem for the industry is set, it is unique. And such analogs developed enterprises belonging to the Concern PVO "Almaz-Antey" ..... and more.

- Developed in Russia today to unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) sea-based?

- According to our information, today the company United Aircraft Corporation, is working hard to create a UAV for the Navy.

I want to emphasize that all forward-looking ships, projects are being developed under the requirements of the Navy, to be used for different purposes based drones - and the drums, and reconnaissance, and targeting systems. This requirement is the Defense Ministry, and it is fully supported by USC.

- Navy Commander Viktor Chirkov recently ordered the resumption of construction of submarines of project 677 "Lada" ....

- Ministry of Defense, the High Command of the Navy and USC have agreed to resume the construction of a series of submarines of project 677 (code "Lada"). We expect that such a decision would be made in the state defense order for 2013. The actual resumption of the construction of boats of this project will begin, respectively, in the following year.

We in the various stages of the "Admiralty Shipyards" in St. Petersburg are "Kronstadt" and "Sevastopol". First, that is "Kronstadt" will not have time to equip VNEU and "Sevastopol" to create a successful installation can be equipped by 2016. "Kronstadt" is planned to be built in 2015.

- At what stage of development is VNEU?

- The CDB ME "Rubin" made scale-model, which has already proved the effectiveness and correctness of the choices made. Plant produces electricity, while it is safe and secure. Who started building the prototype. The head unit can be set up in 2014.

- When at last will be adopted by submarine "Yury Dolgoruky" and "Severodvinsk"?

- In September, after all the checks and removal of comments state commission shipbuilding industry confirms its readiness to transfer to the Navy submarine "Yury Dolgoruky". On the "Sevmash", where the ship was built and tested, to be held the flag raising. No further launches "Bulava" is not planned, because the program of state testing on the ship has been fully implemented.

The next launch will occur during state testing the first production boats of this project, "Alexander Nevsky", that is, in November.

- The media reported that the submarine "Severodvinsk" will be put into service in 2013 ...

- Submarine "Severodvinsk" is currently being tested in accordance with the schedule and program. In 2011, there were three out to sea, this year has already conducted three successful exit in accordance with the schedule. Before the year is scheduled for another five or six outputs.

August 22, at ten in the morning the boat came, it was reported that the test was successful, all the points of the program were met. This output was associated with working sonar system. Indeed, on this boat 22 prototypes that need to be checked into the sea. Each of which requires testing in a special program.

The following outputs will be devoted to testing systems and other systems. Target is set - this year to complete the factory and state tests.

First, we perform self test all units and mechanisms, then paired connections with the other ship's systems, and in the final stage - the comprehensive tests. For example, the missile has to go with the pair of mating systems provide the ship, including navigation, command and control, communications and general ship systems.

- Has the fate of the two remaining in service fleet submarines of Project 941 "Shark" in the terminology of NATO "Typhoon"?

- Not yet. "Severstal" and "Archangel" is in the White Sea naval base (city Severodvinsk, Arkhangelsk region). Worked through a lot of options for further service in the Navy - and used under the "Bulava", and equipped with cruise missiles, and make a minelayer, and special-purpose boat. All study made only solution for them is still pending. While they are in Severodvinsk, but these boats "alive".

- What will happen to the analogue died in 2000 of "Kursk" - submarine "Belgorod" Project 949?

- "Belgorod" will complete construction on the upgrade projects.

- Is the infrastructure for fleets based "Boreas"?

- This is a very important task. Already initiated funding for the provision of home in all directions - and missile system, and the ship itself in two fleets - the Northern and Pacific.

For the Pacific Fleet (PF) is the second boat "Alexander Nevsky" headache, "Yury Dolgoruky" will be in the Northern Fleet.

When the boat will be taken to the Navy, the crews will begin practice of tasks in the Northern Fleet. Then the crew of "Alexander Nevsky" would be prepared to go to the northern sea route to the east - to the Pacific Fleet for further service. Typically, it takes a year.

- The nuclear-powered missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov" ... What will happen to him?

- The decision to modernize, including in terms of improving the combat potential, is still pending. This question is included in the state defense order for 2012, a decision on it should be taken in September.

In rosea is 5 billion rubles for these purposes. But to this article, "open", you need to sign the appropriate documents.

- Analogues "Admiral Nakhimov" will be repaired?

- "Lazarus" and "Ushakov" Unfortunately, it is necessary to write off, it is "dead" ships. "Ushakov" for 31 years. Its modernization will cost more to build two new destroyers.

- Destroyers 956-year project will also be disposed of?

- Not at all, we repair the ships, seven units are now in service of the Navy. Supported by their technical readiness. For example, the Pacific Fleet destroyer "Stormy" is placed in the repair to "Dalzavod." The workshops have repaired the main power plant.

They serve, maintained, expected to repair all ships of this project.

- Navy completely abandoned the procurement of small submarines "Piranha" for spetsnaz?

- Deliver "Piranha" for the Navy, we do not plan, they are offered for export.

Back in 1989, it was decided to carry out these tasks appropriate by robotic means, including, without human intervention. These are the same drones, just in a different, underwater, environment. In the same way are the U.S. Navy. A work in progress, it is a very promising direction.

- Will set up the PAK FA for naval aviation?

- This procedure creates the target plane for the Air Force, not the Navy. But all the achievements in the creation of this aircraft should be considered in future aircraft for naval aviation in the future.

Fleet until such aircraft did not order, because all efforts are concentrated on the state until the PAK FA. When such aircraft will be created and adopted by, it will be easier to adapt to the fleet. There is a special term - "omoryachivanie."

While the Navy will buy the MiG-29K ship to replenish the fleet carrier-based aircraft.

- Where will be based "Mistrals"?

- "Mistrals" will be based on the Pacific Fleet. There are several options - in Fokino or Vladivostok. Until 2014, when it first "Mistral", this issue will be resolved.

- When is the conclusion of a new contract for the construction of the third and fourth cases of "Mistral" in Russian shipyards?

- So far, all contracts are only two "Mistral". For two have different opinions. The contract that was concluded, involves the transfer of documents to which we will be able to build these ships.

However, some equipment will be right not to themselves, but to buy from the same French, for example, propulsion, that is the main power plant.

But first, the construction of the third and fourth hulls of "Mistral" to be included in the state defense order, and only then will be to deal with the French side, if it so chooses.

Main points:

- In 2011 and 2012, the designers had done a lot of research work for defining a layout of corvette of water region defence(OVR). It will be a multipurpose vehicle with modularity complexes.
- Work has been launched to determine the shape of multi-purpose ship far sea zone (the destroyer). There are options with conventional energy and nuclear.
- Is very important from the point of view of Navy to be included into the missile defense system. Developments are going on by enterprises belonging to the PVO "Almaz-Antey".
- United Aircraft Corporation is working hard to create a UAV for the Navy. All future ships, projects are being developed under the requirements of the Navy, should have the ability to base a UAV
- Resume the construction of a series of submarines of project 677 "Lada". "Kronstadt" and "Sevastopol".
- Submarines of project 941 "Typhoon". "Severstal" and "Archangelsk" is in the White Sea naval bases, boats, and are "alive".
- Submarine "Belgorod" Project 949 will complete construction on the upgrade project.
- The nuclear-powered missile cruiser "Admiral Nakhimov". The decision to is included in the state defense order for 2012, 5 billion rubles for these purposes.(very small sum). "Lazarev" and "Ushakov" Unfortunately, it is necessary to write off, are "dead" ships. (So only two Kirov's going forward)
- Destroyers 956 project (Sovremenny) - 7 units are now in service of the Navy. Repairs to be carried out of all the ships of the project.

This article makes more questions than answers.

1. I though shape of the multipurpose destroyer has being determined already as construction should start next year according to some statements. There is no info about any future destroyer specs(as is still on drawing board), but there are no info about numbers planed or start of building etc. I expected few info about it. It is hard to see China/Britain/Japan/S.Korea etc inducting new destroyers while Russia making slow progress with Groshkov.

3. 3 Typhoons alive with no decision what next, Borei and Graney class going all well and Belgorod (no mention but possible two others of class) going to be finished, AIP/Lada class things are messy and ok we have some 2016 date when all will be settled, UAV subs being developed, but there is no word about Akula/Sierra/Victor class and its successor?

3. We now know what will happen to Admiral Nakimov but dont know when can we expect it. Sovy class will be repaired but no word about Udaloy class. There where no word about Slava class either, or what about Gorshkov class its planed numbers timeline of introduction but at least we know areal UAV is being worked on.

Seven 956s maybe in service, but only 3 are capable of combat/moving under their own power.
The others range from needing engine repair to total overhaul. Modernization has been promised for a while, so I am not too optimistic here.

1155 ships in comparison are all in regular service (the ones not scrapped ofc) and have gone abroad/been overhauled reliably.

TR1 wrote:Seven 956s maybe in service, but only 3 are capable of combat/moving under their own power.
The others range from needing engine repair to total overhaul. Modernization has been promised for a while, so I am not too optimistic here.

1155 ships in comparison are all in regular service (the ones not scrapped ofc) and have gone abroad/been overhauled reliably.

Gorshkov class frigates will replace both types

AEGIS is a C4IR system, and has only had ABM functions added to it.

The Russians already have an AEGIS like system called Sigma, what they lack is a new missile like SM-3 to engage passing ICBMs and satellites outside the atmosphere.

A naval S-500 is basically what they are talking about developing.

George1 wrote:

TR1 wrote:Seven 956s maybe in service, but only 3 are capable of combat/moving under their own power.
The others range from needing engine repair to total overhaul. Modernization has been promised for a while, so I am not too optimistic here.

1155 ships in comparison are all in regular service (the ones not scrapped ofc) and have gone abroad/been overhauled reliably.

Gorshkov class frigates will replace both types

Probably. Depends on how big the new destroyer is and how many are laid down.

Gorshkov is very potent for the size, but tempo will need to be increased if the current destroyers are to be replaced by it.

The advantage of standardising the design from UKSK launchers to Redut SAM launchers and sensors and guns etc, is that once they do get started making them there should be no hiccups down the line and they should be able to rattle them out in significant numbers fairly rapidly.

Having general purpose ships that have have different weapon loads for different missions is much more efficient than having smaller numbers of specialised vessels.

GarryB wrote:AEGIS is a C4IR system, and has only had ABM functions added to it.

The Russians already have an AEGIS like system called Sigma, what they lack is a new missile like SM-3 to engage passing ICBMs and satellites outside the atmosphere.

A naval S-500 is basically what they are talking about developing.

In my opinion, with modernizing Kirov cruisers, there is enough space to install big ABM missiles with needed radars and equipment to have same capabilities.

In my opinion the radars that should be fitted to Russias capital ships... including carriers will need to be able to look into space anyway.

Equally the new S-500 doesn't need to be bigger than the large S-300/400 missiles, so there is an opportunity to use the existing Redut SAM VLS for the new missiles.
It would certainly be more flexible and deployable if it was compatible with existing launchers.

medo wrote:

GarryB wrote:AEGIS is a C4IR system, and has only had ABM functions added to it.

The Russians already have an AEGIS like system called Sigma, what they lack is a new missile like SM-3 to engage passing ICBMs and satellites outside the atmosphere.

A naval S-500 is basically what they are talking about developing.

In my opinion, with modernizing Kirov cruisers, there is enough space to install big ABM missiles with needed radars and equipment to have same capabilities.

As can be seen from my earlier posts, I'm a big fan of the Kirov class cruisers. Infact, little shouts "This is Russia" like the sight of these awesome, gigantic beasts parked off a coast, and loaded up with all manner of weaponry.

With new nuke propulsion they could have S-500, EM rail-guns and much more. The idea cover for the next gen aircraft carrier, and to pack a massive punch in their own right. Along with the Typhoon subs, they're synonymous with Russia's "we can never be beaten" spirit.

Refitting one Kirov for the price of 2 destroyers sounds a good deal to me. Atleast keep them in reserve. Needs can change quickly in global affairs. Keep all options open IMO.

I think it really comes down to what sort of upgrade will they get.

If it is going to be a cheap upgrade that just replaces the Granit and Silex with UKSK launchers, and the replacement of the SAM launchers with Redut, then they have saved some money but not gotten a huge return and in 5-10 years they will need another upgrade because most of the electronics and sensors will need upgrades too.

If it is going to be a fundamental upgrade where all the weapons are taken off and replaced with upgrades... ie UKSK, Redut, Pantsir-S1, Morfei, Duet, plus all new sensors and all new electronics and of course the new generation compact nuclear reactors and of course the new 152mm gun turrets, or perhaps even larger calibre guns like a 203mm calibre weapon.

I wonder how much of a reskin could be done to a Kirov to make it more stealthy. I know it isnt that bad stealthwise already.

OK its said that 2 destroyers could be bought for the price of an older Kirov full refit. I wonder, is that the new stealth destroyer?

I also wonder if a "refit lite" could be done on the older Kirovs. Just basic stuff so they can be out on the high seas, flying the flag, anti-piracy, maybe missile testing etc. Leaving the stuff that requires cutting edge electronics to the new stealth destroyers.

Firebird wrote:OK its said that 2 destroyers could be bought for the price of an older Kirov full refit. I wonder, is that the new stealth destroyer?

I think they where refering to the price of two Kirovs they wont modernize (Ushakov and lazarev) cozz its price is like 2 new destroyers.
Nakimov on the other hand should be cheaper.

Firebird wrote:I wonder how much of a reskin could be done to a Kirov to make it more stealthy. I know it isnt that bad stealthwise already.

OK its said that 2 destroyers could be bought for the price of an older Kirov full refit. I wonder, is that the new stealth destroyer?

I also wonder if a "refit lite" could be done on the older Kirovs. Just basic stuff so they can be out on the high seas, flying the flag, anti-piracy, maybe missile testing etc. Leaving the stuff that requires cutting edge electronics to the new stealth destroyers.

The issue is the Ushakov and Lazarev are in such a state that a lite refit is impossible- it would have to be something major.

The Nakhimov is in far better shape than the two of them.

I wonder how much of a reskin could be done to a Kirov to make it more stealthy. I know it isnt that bad stealthwise already.

Actually the new weapons and sensors will go a long way to increasing the stealthiness of the vessels as they tend to be low profile more compact systems that are more multiuse, so instead of 10 different radars for 5 different weapons (ie separate tracking and search radars for each) they can combine them to a single huge AESA array that manages all the functions of the older systems and more then they will be able to use the internal space even more efficiently and carry even more stuff and likely reduce the crew size and improve performance.

I also wonder if a "refit lite" could be done on the older Kirovs. Just basic stuff so they can be out on the high seas, flying the flag, anti-piracy, maybe missile testing etc. Leaving the stuff that requires cutting edge electronics to the new stealth destroyers.

I just think if it is worth doing, then it is worth doing right.

Of course if they know some ground breaking technology is on its way and it just needs 5 years or so to perfect then a modest upgrade now of the important stuff that needs replacing like the Granits with Onyx makes sense.

The issue is the Ushakov and Lazarev are in such a state that a lite refit is impossible- it would have to be something major.

The Nakhimov is in far better shape than the two of them.

I wonder what sort of condition the SSV-33 Ural is in. It has the same hull design as the Orlan class (Sea Eagle).