Soviet weaponry/equipment in Middle Eastern wars

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
The best chances he had was firing all available Scuds on coalition bases after which he would have had B-2s carpet bombing Baghdad within days.

The Iraqis fired some SCUDs on Saudi and Israeli cities but the US didn't bomb Baghdad.

starman wrote:

Walther von Oldenburg wrote:
The best chances he had was firing all available Scuds on coalition bases after which he would have had B-2s carpet bombing Baghdad within days.

The Iraqis fired some SCUDs on Saudi and Israeli cities but the US didn't bomb Baghdad.

You're kidding ?

starman wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:
Do you think it happened because of the F-4's superiority was a factor?

I think IAF Mirages scored most of the kills. From what I've read, their missiles were better than Soviet atolls. But the main reason for the defeat, or the lopsided resiult, was simply that the Soviets fell into a trap.

Also what do you mean even the EAF had more experience? Are you saying the soviets couldnt fly their own aircraft correctly?

I meant more experience in fighting the IAF. Interestingly, in one of his volumes on Arab MIGs, Cooper says the Egyptians were the first to use the ambush tactic, late in '68, when, he wrote, EAF MIGs got four Mirages. But the Israelis used the tactic on many subsequent occasions, including September 1973 when SAF MIGs were ambushed.

And what was so unique and and invulnerable in israeli pilots compared to NATO ones?

archangelski wrote:
You're kidding ?

Not carpet bombing, as a previous poster wrote.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:
And what was so unique and and invulnerable in israeli pilots compared to NATO ones?

They weren't invulnerable, but they had more experience in actual combat with Soviet made jets, with pilots trained by Russians, than NATO pilots.

starman wrote:

archangelski wrote:
You're kidding ?

Not carpet bombing, as a previous poster wrote.

I prefer, because Baghdad has actually suffered intense bombings... : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qq3L6EY3zg

MIrage III and Mig-21M/SM are probably comparable

Mig-21 does not even come close to F-4 interms of an air superority fighter

but Mig-21 is a pretty good point defence interceptor

so in my humble opinion

israelis had the following advs

1 more experienced pilots
2 favorable tactical situation /element of surprise
3 outnumbered the migs locally

why were the soviet mig21 even operating in the offensive role when their piots are not trained for this nor is the fishbed suited for it ?

Qaddafi is criticizing soviet arms quality in 1982 during Lebanon war:

“We have finally recognized that our relations are just of a commercial and not of a friendly nature. Your arms you are selling to us are looking to us like children’s toys. Last night 19 Syrian aircraft were shot down. Syria does actually not have a working air defense any more... "

https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/note-qaddafis-reaction-socialist-support-arab-countries-war-lebanon

Syria does actually not have a working air defense any more...

Russian SAM missiles were good, but they were poorly operated by the Syrians. They were in fixed positions, with the radars in valleys instead of mountains. Their positions were not camouflaged which only made it easier to detect targets from a distance. The Syrians did not follow the Russian doctrine of maneuver and camouflage. Russian manuals cite alternating firing positions, carrying out defensive ambushes, false positions and regular repositioning to confuse enemy intelligence.

I would not judge the quality of equipment based on the performance of an operator who placed radars, of anti-aircraft defense batteries, in valleys...

The MiG-23 aircraft that the Soviets sold to the Middle East were pretty much crap. They had outdated radars and missiles.
This was part of the reason why they failed hard against the fighters that Israel had. They never exported the good ones to the Middle East.

With the T-72 the same thing happened where the tanks were sold without the quartz composite filler.