S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #2

Nice !!

But why don't they make a naval version of it ?  like yanks have aegis ( only successful interceptor of theirs ) .


What about SM-6 missile ( RIM-174 Standard Extended Range Active Missile (ERAM) ) ? Currently they're using SM-3 to intercept . I think Russia should go for its naval version also .

max steel wrote:Nice !!    

But why don't they make a naval version of it ?  like yanks have aegis ( only successful interceptor of theirs ) .


What about SM-6 missile ( RIM-174 Standard Extended Range Active Missile (ERAM) )  ? Currently they're using SM-3 to intercept . I think Russia should go for its naval version also .

Russians are working on it as we speak. You will see introduction of navalized S-400 and S-500 on their future ships.


Another article as above put a emphasis on surely one of the most important things ....

Defense Ministry to urgently produce thousands of missiles for air defense

"Enterprises of the national military-industrial complex task this year three times to increase the number of missiles produced for systems and air defense and missile defense, which should significantly increase the ability to create a new kind of Russian Armed Forces - Air Force Space" - said the source in TASS Defense Ministry. The source stressed that "we are talking about thousands of rockets."

Nice

S-400 arrived in Kamchatka

WATCHOUT Japan , Alaska and Hawaii .

40N6 ultra-long range and high-altitude missiles or the hypersonic kinetic-kill 77N6-N missiles


are both part of S-400 ?

Austin wrote:40N6 ultra-long range and high-altitude missiles or the hypersonic kinetic-kill 77N6-N missiles


are both part of S-400 ?

Yes

flamming_python wrote:

Austin wrote:40N6 ultra-long range and high-altitude missiles or the hypersonic kinetic-kill 77N6-N missiles


are both part of S-400 ?

Yes

How is that possible , Can you tell me what missiles are part of S-400 system and any information on 77N6-N , I never heard of this before , I mean the range etc

because 40N6 has a range of 400 km and altitude of 185 km , what similar data for 77N6-N and how is it different ?

Austin wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Austin wrote:40N6 ultra-long range and high-altitude missiles or the hypersonic kinetic-kill 77N6-N missiles


are both part of S-400 ?

Yes

How is that possible , Can you tell me what missiles are part of S-400 system and any information on 77N6-N , I never heard of this before , I mean the range etc

because 40N6 has a range of 400 km and altitude of 185 km , what similar data for 77N6-N and how is it different ?

40N6 as you know is already in service; it's compatible with both the S-400 and S-300PMU2. It's somewhere between the US's SM-2 and SM-3 missiles in terms of range and altitude ceiling.

In regards to the 77N6-N - well not much is known about it, other than that it's a kinetic-kill hypersonic missile. An analogue to the US THAAD missile.
Due to its ABM-role I presume the altitude ceiling will be pretty high, in the ballpark of the 40N6.
Range will most definitely be smaller; due to its higher speed.
It's actually scheduled for introduction with the S-500, but info I've read claims that it will be compatible with the S-400 too and if so will probably be bought for S-400 regiments too. Actually there are at least two 77N6-N missile designations. Perhaps one will be compatible with both the S-400 and S-500 and the other with just the S-500.
I presume that it will be produced in one of Almaz-Antey's new production facilities in Kirov, Nizhny Novgorod or St. Petersburg; which were drawn-up in the first place to produce the S-500 system and next-gen missiles.
Production is allegedly to start this year.

As far as Im aware I dont know except for the officially released data about S-500 anything. Its missiles, its range, its composition, corelation with S-400 and all other stuff - nothing.

We just have to wait for more info about it.

One big advantage of US is that it gets help from all NATO countries ,but also non nato ones like Israel.. to develop technology.. and if that wasn't enough they steal the secrets of Russia technology bribing Russian Engineers ,while Russia basically have to do all alone..  Still with such
disadvantage in support is amazing how Russia can do so well , not only to compete with US but outperform them in many military technology.

on another Note ..  this is a very nice website.. a must have... with military info of latest
tech.. or from soviet times that was very innovative.

http://defendingrussia.ru

Here is a graphic of S-400 setup how it will look.. on the battle field.



About Thaad .. NOThing is 100% realiable. that doesn't exist. S-300 have like a 80%+ success rate and S-400 like 85%++ last time i saw.. So more than one missile is usually required for difficult targets to play safe. But massive attack of hundreds of missiles can overwhelm any air defense in the world. Simple tactics like detonating a small nuclear bomb as cover ,to blind enemy radars can be effective in countering any defense.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=91925&page=46

Nice pics.

I noticed the pics showed Philips monitors.
I wonder if monitors send any signal back to the computer or are entirely passive?
Could a spy backdoor be fitted to a monitor? I'd be sure the GPU must receive something back from the monitor?

Is the MOD pisstaking with the pic? Or are monitors 1000% safe?

Well..5 shipments doesn't mean that we will have 5 Battalions. They will replace 3 Battalions with 24 TELs plus Radar equipment.
I wonder why they didn't use airlift with AN-124, too...
What TEL types will they use this time? My guess is 5P85D2 (MAZ based). Obviously they stopped using 5P85T2 and 51P6A is still just an announcement not seen in the field at all.

Well according to counting done by charly015 blog Russia has now 10 S-400 regiments - the same number counted by me too and one more than everyone else counted



LINK

3 more S-400 regiments and 1 S-300V4 brigade in 2015. Its a 400km range festival of joy

Charlies No 9 is just fiction - still no RGT at Novosibirsk - just an announcment, as well as Novaja Smelja.
There are "just" 9 RGT - amoung them the one at Rybachi/Kamchatka which is NOT operational yet!

GarryB wrote:In a couple of years when S-500 starts entering service it will likely be deployed around Russia defending strategically important targets like ports and major cities and major airfields and of course HQs and comm centres... heck they might even deploy one near their new space port...

You know Garry, IMO Russia will do a far better job if it opts for different types of missiles on the S-400/S-500 rather than depending only on active/semi-active radar homing missiles like the 40N6,48N6DM, 9M96E2 among other missiles used by the S-400. So there can be a mix of radar guided(active or semi active) and IIR guided missiles.

Back in the 70s,Soviet operational analysis indicated that the low kill probability of missile seekers and airframes, especially if degraded by countermeasures, would be a major impediment to success. Therefore, Soviet Air Force pilots were instructed to launch two rounds, a semi-active radar homing weapon and a heat seeking missile.In this fashion the aircraft being targeted has a difficult problem as it must jam, decoy and/or outmanoeuvre three or four tightly spaced inbound missiles.

The same BVR philosophy should be adopted by the designers of the S-400/S-500. If the missiles fired by the S-400 differ by seeker type and guidance control laws, then the assumption of statistically independent missile shots is very much stronger.

jhelb wrote:

GarryB wrote:In a couple of years when S-500 starts entering service it will likely be deployed around Russia defending strategically important targets like ports and major cities and major airfields and of course HQs and comm centres... heck they might even deploy one near their new space port...

You know Garry, IMO Russia will do a far better job if it opts for different types of missiles on the S-400/S-500 rather than depending only on active/semi-active radar homing missiles like the 40N6,48N6DM, 9M96E2 among other missiles used by the S-400. So there can be a mix of radar guided(active or semi active) and IIR guided missiles.

Back in the 70s,Soviet operational analysis indicated that the low kill probability of missile seekers and airframes, especially if degraded by countermeasures, would be a major impediment to success. Therefore, Soviet Air Force pilots were instructed to launch two rounds, a semi-active radar homing weapon and a heat seeking missile.In this fashion the aircraft being targeted has a difficult problem as it must jam, decoy and/or outmanoeuvre three or four tightly spaced inbound missiles.

The same BVR philosophy should be adopted by the designers of the S-400/S-500. If the missiles fired by the S-400 differ by seeker type and guidance control laws, then the assumption of statistically independent missile shots is very much stronger.

S-400 and alike Russian AD systems are meant to simultaneously work with ECM systems meaning enemy radars are supposed to be blinded anyway as 40N6 and 48N6 steam rolls its way towards the target. From the official Almaz-Antey video we have learned about the existance of the passive guided S-400 missiles and many other things about the S-400 missile system remains a secret till this day but one thing is for sure, Russian PVO generals are extremely happy about it.

Viktor wrote:

jhelb wrote:

GarryB wrote:In a couple of years when S-500 starts entering service it will likely be deployed around Russia defending strategically important targets like ports and major cities and major airfields and of course HQs and comm centres... heck they might even deploy one near their new space port...

You know Garry, IMO Russia will do a far better job if it opts for different types of missiles on the S-400/S-500 rather than depending only on active/semi-active radar homing missiles like the 40N6,48N6DM, 9M96E2 among other missiles used by the S-400. So there can be a mix of radar guided(active or semi active) and IIR guided missiles.

Back in the 70s,Soviet operational analysis indicated that the low kill probability of missile seekers and airframes, especially if degraded by countermeasures, would be a major impediment to success. Therefore, Soviet Air Force pilots were instructed to launch two rounds, a semi-active radar homing weapon and a heat seeking missile.In this fashion the aircraft being targeted has a difficult problem as it must jam, decoy and/or outmanoeuvre three or four tightly spaced inbound missiles.

The same BVR philosophy should be adopted by the designers of the S-400/S-500. If the missiles fired by the S-400 differ by seeker type and guidance control laws, then the assumption of statistically independent missile shots is very much stronger.

S-400 and alike Russian AD systems are meant to simultaneously work with ECM systems meaning enemy radars are supposed to be blinded anyway as 40N6 and 48N6 steam rolls its way towards the target. From the official Almaz-Antey video we have learned about the existance of the passive guided S-400 missiles and many other things about the S-400 missile system remains a secret till this day but one thing is for sure, Russian PVO generals are extremely happy about it.

If I was going to guess one of the secrets about S-400 is that it's a transitional system between anti-IRBM ABM's such as S-300V4, and anti-ICBM ABM's such as S-500 and Moscow ABM.  A likely scenario would be that the S-400 is a high-tier anti-IRBM system when put into service but designed to evolve into a lower-tier anti-ICBM system (just under higher tiers that S-500 and Moscow ABM represent) in later modernization programs 10-15 years in the future with the maturation of scramjet technology.

Viktor wrote:
S-400 and alike Russian AD systems are meant to simultaneously work with ECM systems meaning enemy radars are supposed to be blinded anyway as 40N6 and 48N6 steam rolls its way towards the target.

With one important caveat. Targets must be in line of sight. You see ECM does not work if the target is not in line of sight. And hostile forces will ensure that they are not.

Say tomorrow some of China's enemies like Japan, India, Vietnam decide to attack the S 400. What do you think they will do? Their fighters will fly a nap of the earth profile thereby allowing them to rely on terrain masking & terrain-hugging flight profiles and consequently launch their missiles like Kh-31 to strike the S-400 from standoff range.

opts for different types of missiles on the S-400/S-500 rather than depending only on active/semi-active radar homing missiles like the 40N6,48N6DM, 9M96E2 among other missiles used by the S-400. So there can be a mix of radar guided(active or semi active) and IIR guided missiles.

There are at least 2 different missiles for the S-400 system and that does not include the two smaller 9M96 missiles that are part of the S-350 family. the S-500 will have something different too.

Regarding IIR guided missiles I really don't think integrating a guidance seeker that might see targets 20-30km away at best would be much use for the S-500 as the S-500 will be travelling at a rather high speed and will be intercepting targets travelling at up to 7km/s... even if the target is glowing brightly the 1-2 seconds an IIR sensor could detect such a target would not be that significant... it would be far more useful to have ground based sensors tracking the missile and the target and sensors on the missile also tracking the target.

Integration of sensors is normally a good thing and I agree it makes sense, but I suspect long range AAMs will benefit more than large heavy long range SAMs would.

Back in the 70s,Soviet operational analysis indicated that the low kill probability of missile seekers and airframes, especially if degraded by countermeasures, would be a major impediment to success. Therefore, Soviet Air Force pilots were instructed to launch two rounds, a semi-active radar homing weapon and a heat seeking missile.In this fashion the aircraft being targeted has a difficult problem as it must jam, decoy and/or outmanoeuvre three or four tightly spaced inbound missiles.

Improvements in technology and ECCM capability have reached a point where only occasionally multiple missiles would be needed... doing it as standard made sense when the missiles had less than 10% kill probability against long range targets, but now it is more like 70-80%.

the main use of radar and IR guided missiles was each complimented the other. A closing target is easy to track and guide a SARH missile at, but the front of an aircraft offers a poor IR target.

Conversely a receeding aircraft is hard to track with a pulse dopplar radar and the engagement range of a SARH missile for a receeding target is dramatically reduced, yet an IR guided missile looking at the engine exhaust tubes can get hits at much greater ranges especially with low flying aircraft with heavy loads in full AB.

It is not an accident that the short range early MiG-29s could carry two SARH R-27s for short range air defence while the larger Su-27s which might not be engaging targets head on also carried the IR guided R-27s.

If I was going to guess one of the secrets about S-400 is that it's a transitional system between anti-IRBM ABM's such as S-300V4, and anti-ICBM ABM's such as S-500 and Moscow ABM.

S-400 is a replacement for the S-300 and is not in the same defence structure as the S-300V4 which is an army system.

Likely it will be Verba, Morfei, Pantsir-SM, S-350, S-400, S-500, Moscow ABM for the air defence forces and air force.

For the Army it will be Verba, Morfei, Tor and SOSNA-R, Pantsir-SM, BUK-M3, S-300V4 and possibly S-500.

jhelb wrote:

With one important caveat. Targets must be in line of sight. You see ECM does not work if the target is not in line of sight. And hostile forces will ensure that they are not.

Say tomorrow some of China's enemies like Japan, India, Vietnam decide to attack the S 400. What do you think they will do? Their fighters  will fly a nap of the earth profile thereby allowing them to rely on  terrain masking & terrain-hugging flight profiles and consequently launch their missiles like Kh-31 to strike the S-400 from standoff range.

And that strike force will know where to strike how?

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but 8 s400 regiments are deliverd to the airforce till today. The others in service (not army systems) are the s300 pmu1/2/3 series. And there are shorads for point defence. In addition to this there are long range EW radars service for early detection.

I wonder what the strategic air defence of russia would look Like in 2020. The nummer of deployed systems (s400,s350,s300,s500 and pointdefence systems), the EW, and the area's of airdefence focus.

I guess, besides moscow, we will see deployment focus in the western and southern military district (against Nato) In the ural (probably s350 and s500, to protect the missile silo's) and around the pacific fleet (for bastion defence).

The air and space (aerospace) defence forces... a combination of the PVO air defence forces of the Air Force, and the Space defence forces of the strategic forces, will also operate S-400 along with the S-500 and the Moscow based ABM system.

Like the Air Force, the VKKO wont be so interested in theatre mobility (ie tracked vehicles) as strategic and short range mobility (wheels).

EKS wrote:So, correct me if i'm wrong, but 8 s400 regiments are deliverd to the airforce till today. The others in service (not army systems) are the s300 pmu1/2/3 series. And there are shorads for point defence. In addition to this there are long range EW radars service for early detection.

I wonder what the strategic air defence of russia would look Like in 2020. The nummer of deployed systems (s400,s350,s300,s500 and pointdefence systems), the EW, and the area's of airdefence focus.

I guess, besides moscow, we will see deployment focus in the western and southern military district (against Nato) In the ural (probably s350 and s500, to protect the missile silo's) and around the pacific fleet (for bastion defence).

Roughly and in general, Russia currently has about 220 batteries of S-300PX/VX/400 systems and somewhere in between of 500-1000 active fighters. Nuf said

+ whole lots of other stuff and by 2020 situation will further and rapidly improve.