Russian Navy: Status & News #4

Kimppis wrote:verkhoturye51... China is already the number 2. While their SSN fleet is certainly not as good as Russia's... that is still obvious.

It's very misleading to say that the Chinese Navy has not grown, nor is it actually true. China's navy was dogshit before 2010, it was always behind technologically, none of its vessels were modern (before the early 2000s). That's not the case anymore, it's the opposite. PLAN will basically be fully modern by 2020, after that it's goodbye for Pax Americana (I'm mainly talking about Western Pacific, not some global Chinese hegemony).  

This is my rough estimate for the Chinese Navy in 2030:

5-6 carriers
5-6+ helicopter carriers
10+ LPDs

40-50+ destroyers (not an exaggeration)
40+ frigates
60-100 corvettes
60 missile boats (if they keep them)

20+ SSNs (they will technologically also more or less catch up with Russia with their Type 095, especially considering that Russia will certainly not have 20 Yasens by 2030, closer to 10 + older upgraded boats)
60+ modern SSKs

Mind that Russia has always been principally continental - land power, while in maritime sense Russia must have strong navy as to defend its coast, as well as overseas interesses, but without need to be the first maritime power in the world. There is no need for that.


China's blue water capability will be stronger vis-a-vis the US in 2030 than the USSR's ever was, for the most part, maybe not in regards to SSNs, but nothing's certain.

Comparing China's current capabilities to Russia's Syria operation is difficult, because their geography is so different, but China could certainly pull off a similar operation and then some. That is, from a similar distance to the mainland, let's not also forget that Russia had access to bases in Syria from day 1. However, I do agree that there are very few countries that could do that, but China is certainly one of them. Let's not even talk about PLAN of 2030... Those numbers above should be clear enough.

And as has already been pointed out, by 2030 Russia will have:

0 new carriers operational
0-1 Liders

I'm also not saying any of this really matters, Russia really is much less of a sea power than China, but come on now...

Hole wrote:The Russian (SU) Navy in the 80´s had 30+ cruisers and 50+ destroyers, plus frigates, light frigates and corvettes. Much more than this "predictions" for the chinese navy.

Kimppis wrote:verkhoturye51... China is already the number 2. While their SSN fleet is certainly not as good as Russia's... that is still obvious.

It's very misleading to say that the Chinese Navy has not grown, nor is it actually true. China's navy was dogshit before 2010, it was always behind technologically, none of its vessels were modern (before the early 2000s). That's not the case anymore, it's the opposite. PLAN will basically be fully modern by 2020, after that it's goodbye for Pax Americana (I'm mainly talking about Western Pacific, not some global Chinese hegemony).  

This is my rough estimate for the Chinese Navy in 2030:

5-6 carriers
5-6+ helicopter carriers
10+ LPDs

40-50+ destroyers (not an exaggeration)
40+ frigates
60-100 corvettes
60 missile boats (if they keep them)

20+ SSNs (they will technologically also more or less catch up with Russia with their Type 095, especially considering that Russia will certainly not have 20 Yasens by 2030, closer to 10 + older upgraded boats)
60+ modern SSKs

China's blue water capability will be stronger vis-a-vis the US in 2030 than the USSR's ever was, for the most part, maybe not in regards to SSNs, but nothing's certain.

Comparing China's current capabilities to Russia's Syria operation is difficult, because their geography is so different, but China could certainly pull off a similar operation and then some. That is, from a similar distance to the mainland, let's not also forget that Russia had access to bases in Syria from day 1. However, I do agree that there are very few countries that could do that, but China is certainly one of them. Let's not even talk about PLAN of 2030... Those numbers above should be clear enough.

And as has already been pointed out, by 2030 Russia will have:

0 new carriers operational
0-1 Liders

I'm also not saying any of this really matters, Russia really is much less of a sea power than China, but come on now...

walle83 wrote:China has a goal and have the economy to make it come true. Russia on the other hand is more or less lost in the woods, moving from project to project without having the big picture or the economy.

walle83 wrote:U cant compare cruisers and destroyers of 1960/70s design with modern missile-destroyers. Most cruisers in the Soviet navy was out of date already in the late 1980s. There was ongoing plans to replace these with Slava and Kirovs, however only a handfull was ever completed and today these vessels are starting to show signs of old age.
Most of Russian naval vessels today are based upon 1980s technology and designs. About 80% av Chinas vessels are constructed since 2005 and forward.

Big_Gazza wrote:

walle83 wrote:China has a goal and have the economy to make it come true. Russia on the other hand is more or less lost in the woods, moving from project to project without having the big picture or the economy.

What rubbish...  RuN doesn't have a "big picture"?  Why? because they don't ask you for your personal opinions or structure their new programs to suit your personal taste?....

The RuN has put their priority in upgrades of the existing decent hulls, more subs, small combatants with "distributed lethality", and hypersonics.  They don't need fixed wing or helo carriers in the immediate future, and they won't build large surface combatants until they have a force of new escort-class ships which which to group with.

Don't have big picture of the economy????  FFS, surely you jest?  For an economy that is under constant assault by the Western-run NWO i think they are doing surprisingly well.  They have taken the blows, reconfigured and adapted, and are back in growth despite all efforts by the Exceptionalists, their public support the efforts and the gov is under ZERO PRESSURE to change course and seek to appease their antogonists.

Don't come here with bullshit MSM talking points and expect to get a warm reception.

verkhoturye51 wrote:Tech is crucial part of modern navies. Russian S-400 can shot down anything flying with less then 9 Gs, even stealthy F-22 or F-35, let alone Chinese YJ-18 flying with 3 Gs.

They can also sink all Chinese destroyers with Kalibr (soon Zircon) missiles.

These facts aren't relevant just in the case of war. They force China to have more friendly stance on Russia, which makes Russia benefit economically, politically and diplomatically.

And China can sink all Russian vessles with their CJ-100 missiles not to mention that they are buying S-400 systems from Russia, whats your point?

GarryB wrote:

And China can sink all Russian vessles with their CJ-100 missiles not to mention that they are buying S-400 systems from Russia, whats your point?

NO they can't because Russia can more easily destroy China than vice versa... Chinese population is concentrated on the coast... an easy target for nuclear missiles.

walle83 wrote:

Hole wrote:The Russian (SU) Navy in the 80´s had 30+ cruisers and 50+ destroyers, plus frigates, light frigates and corvettes. Much more than this "predictions" for the chinese navy.

U cant compare cruisers and destroyers of 1960/70s design with modern missile-destroyers. Most cruisers in the Soviet navy was out of date already in the late 1980s. There was ongoing plans to replace these with Slava and Kirovs, however only a handfull was ever completed and today these vessels are starting to show signs of old age.
Most of Russian naval vessels today are based upon 1980s technology and designs. About 80% av Chinas vessels are constructed since 2005 and forward.

GarryB wrote:The main problem is that you really don't know the value to your economy of a powerful navy until you have a powerful navy... to realise it is worth the investment you need to invest in the hope you will get returns...

Worked for the UK and US... and could have been useful to Japan if they had not tried to take on both the US and UK at once in WWII...

walle83 wrote:

GarryB wrote:

And China can sink all Russian vessles with their CJ-100 missiles not to mention that they are buying S-400 systems from Russia, whats your point?

NO they can't because Russia can more easily destroy China than vice versa... Chinese population is concentrated on the coast... an easy target for nuclear missiles.

What the hell does nuclear war have to do with sinking naval vessels?? The subject was size, capabilities and general growth rate of the different navies.

Hole wrote:

walle83 wrote:

GarryB wrote:

And China can sink all Russian vessles with their CJ-100 missiles not to mention that they are buying S-400 systems from Russia, whats your point?

NO they can't because Russia can more easily destroy China than vice versa... Chinese population is concentrated on the coast... an easy target for nuclear missiles.

What the hell does nuclear war have to do with sinking naval vessels?? The subject was size, capabilities and general growth rate of the different navies.

Without russian tech chinese ships would be empty hulls.

Hole wrote:

walle83 wrote:

Hole wrote:The Russian (SU) Navy in the 80´s had 30+ cruisers and 50+ destroyers, plus frigates, light frigates and corvettes. Much more than this "predictions" for the chinese navy.

U cant compare cruisers and destroyers of 1960/70s design with modern missile-destroyers. Most cruisers in the Soviet navy was out of date already in the late 1980s. There was ongoing plans to replace these with Slava and Kirovs, however only a handfull was ever completed and today these vessels are starting to show signs of old age.
Most of Russian naval vessels today are based upon 1980s technology and designs. About 80% av Chinas vessels are constructed since 2005 and forward.

Kimpis claimed the chinese Navy would have mor ships than the SU. He is wrong.

What the hell does nuclear war have to do with sinking naval vessels?? The subject was size, capabilities and general growth rate of the different navies.

It "worked" for them because they had/have colonies. Russia doesn´t need colonies.

15 years ago perhaps, not today.

Thats not what he is saying, he is saying that Chinas navy will be more compareble to the US navy by 2030 in its abilities,

Russia plans to lay trans-Arctic fiber cable linking military installations



Starting in Severomorsk on the Kola Peninsula, the fiber-optic line will provide state-of-the art tele- and data communication to all military bases and installations across the Arctic to Vladivostok......

https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/security/2018/04/russia-slated-lay-military-trans-arctic-fibre-cable

Russian Northern Fleet Creates Submarine Division for Deep-Water Operations



The Russian Navy Northern fleet created a deep-water division. It comprises small nuclear-powered deep-water stations capable of operating at depths of up to six thousand meters. It also has submarine carriers of the craft and a big number of robotized underwater complexes. The secret formation is subordinated directly to the defense minister, the Izvestia daily writes.

more at
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2018/april-2018-navy-naval-defense-news/6169-russian-northern-fleet-creates-submarine-division-for-deep-water-operations.html