Russian defence against drone swarms

I have hunted ducks for many years.

I have never shot a bird with any type of firearm. I have shot a lot of rabbits and fast moving small vermin like stoats and ferrets and weasels.

I have two twin barrel over and under 12 gauge shotguns and one side by side twin barrel 12 gauge shotguns... all Russian, plus a Remmington five shot semi auto and a Japanese SKB five shot semi auto.

Was about to buy a Saiga or a Vepr but an immigrant ruined that for me by being a dick.

In terms of soldiers I would say a Saiga or a Vepr would be simpler and easier for Soldiers to learn to use and there is nothing inherently about a pistol grip or a box mag that means you can't shoot things in the air or small fast moving things on the ground.

Learning to lead a moving target is something you have to practise because it is a combination of distance and speed... faster targets and greater distances require more lead.

The video I posted above shows that at 35m even a short barrel Saiga gets the job done with a level of density which should get a few good hits with every pull of the trigger.

Shotguns don't work like lasers... it is not the case that a long barrel and a super tight choke will double the effective range and with different ammo types you really do have to test it because sometimes the spread of pellets is uneven and there are huge gaps in your patterns where nothing would get hit and you can't control where those gaps are.

Going to a lighter shot helps make the patterns more dense but also reduces the effect of hits too... and reduces effective range.

Really light shot as used in clay bird shooting has a huge number of pellets but wont cycle my semi auto shotgun because it is not designed for such light loads.

So it seems the GShG-7.62 gatling gun is an upgrade of the old model. The gas powered model overheated which limited its firing endurance.

The new model has an electric motor so the rate of fire can be changed from 5 rounds a second to 100 rounds per second (300rpm to 6,000rpm).

The original 12.7mm four barrel gatling gun used in the nose turret of the Hind also overheated so they redesigned it and made it heavier so it could fire off the entire store of ammo without overheating... the original YakB-12.7 was 45kgs, while the improved YakBYu-12.7 was 60kgs.

In comparison the original GShG-7.62 was 19kgs.

Here is one of the new videos popping up about it... they have found a small calibre gatling gun fired from the cabin door of a helicopter is the best way to shoot sea surface drones...

So this new shotgun ammo with the kevlar strands linking lead weights seems to be effective to about 75m which is rather good for a shotgun round.

In addition to using by individual soldiers it would also be useful to mount in drones to create a fighter type with forward firing perhaps belt fed 12 gauge shotguns.

Having a belt feed would mean it would be easier to carry rather more rounds than could be fitted in a box magazine or a drum magazine.

Some sort of linkless feed system could allow a large volume of fire without creating the danger area a rifle calibre machine gun would create on the battlefield.

To combat FPV drones... a drone...

GarryB wrote:

To combat FPV drones... a drone...

did you see its name? WallE  to collect ukro -trash EW is as good as long FPV wont switch to AI based optical target finding/aiming. So we got some time ahead.

https://rostec.ru/news/roselektronika-vpervye-predstavlyaet-v-belorussii-resheniya-po-zashchite-obektov-ot-bpla-/

For the first time in Belarus, Ruselectronics presents solutions for the protection of facilities from UAVs

For the first time, Ruselectronics Holding of Rostec State Corporation presents the latest means for protecting facilities from UAV attacks at the II International Exhibition of the Security Industry "National Security. Belarus-2024", which takes place from June 19 to 21 in Minsk. The equipment allows you to detect not only the drone itself, but also its operator, and also provides effective counteraction to FPV drones that are now actively used.

As part of the Russian exposition, the Vector Research Institute, which is part of Ruselectronics, demonstrates the Serp-VS6 automated electronic suppression system for small UAVs and radio monitoring equipment (RM). The devices are successfully operated and provide reliable protection of protected facilities in Russia.

Serp-VS6 can combat modern UAVs at a range of up to 5 km using GNSS signals under the condition of direct radio visibility, and is also capable of suppressing FPV drones (first-person view) due to the expanded frequency range. In addition, the device can counteract several drones flying from different directions at once.

Serp-VS6 can be used both autonomously at a remote position and near the control point, providing protection for mobile or stationary objects. Combining disparate devices into a single complex allows you to organize the protection of large areas.

The RM equipment tracks UAVs by their own control signal and communication channels, this data allows you to identify the drone and the operator. At the same time, the product is invisible to other radio equipment, since it does not have active radio radiation.

"Drone protection is the new reality of security systems not only in Russia, but also abroad. We are ready to offer our Belarusian partners our advanced developments to equip facilities with electronic systems for monitoring, detecting and suppressing UAVs. At the exhibition in Minsk, we are presenting our anti-drone solutions, which have already shown their effectiveness at critical infrastructure facilities in Russia," said Vyacheslav Lyashuk, Business Development Director of the Vector Research Institute.

Another item of belarussian design being tested by Russia...

New Russian Radar Can Spot Tiniest Drones, 06.22.2024.

The product has been showcased at the Flot-2024 International Naval Show.

Russia's Iney (lit. 'hoar frost') compact radar station is capable of detecting very small drones, Georgy Antsev, general director and chief designer of producing company Radar mms, told Sputnik.

"Our specialists have developed the Iney compact radar station with an active phased array antenna (APAA). This radar is designed to detect, among other things, very small drones, such as Maviсs and other drones of similar size," Antsev said.

According to him, Iney can detect very small UAVs at a distance of up to 5 kilometers, while it sees larger targets "much further." The system includes a database that allows it to distinguish between different types of drones and birds.

"Several Iney complexes can be installed at airfields and extensive critical infrastructure sites, creating a continuous radar field around them. Moreover, due to its small size, Iney can be mounted on various weapon systems, turning it into an onboard radar," Antsev explained.

Research and production enterprise Radar mms is one of the Russian leaders in the creation of radio-electronic systems and complexes. The company’s areas of work include radar systems, robotics, unmanned aerial vehicles, meteorological and magnetometric systems, as well as high-speed vessels and sea-based complexes.

https://sputnikglobe.com/20240622/new-russian-radar-can-spot-tiniest-drones-1119060515.html

https://rostec.ru/news/rostekh-razrabotal-mobilnyy-antidron-leshiy-dlya-zashchity-transporta-i-promyshlennykh-obektov/

Ruselectronics Holding of Rostec State Corporation has developed a new mobile anti-drone complex "Leshy" to protect military vehicles and official vehicles from drone attacks. The product has demonstrated its effectiveness during tests and is already being delivered to customers.

The jammer, which is part of the Leshy complex, is located on the roof of the car and forms interference, creating a protective dome over the vehicle. This guarantees the suppression of control channels for drones, including FPV drones. The range of the complex is at least 250 m. The equipment works effectively on the move, but can also be used stationary.

The Leshy complex was developed and is produced by the All-Russian Central Design Bureau Polyus of the Ruselectronics holding. The equipment has been successfully tested and verified at the Research and Testing Institute of Electronic Warfare of the Military Training and Research Center of the Air Force "Air Force Academy named after N.E. Zhukovsky and Y.A. Gagarin" (VUNTS VVS VVA).

"The Leshy complex can be used not only to protect transport, but also to ensure the safety of industrial facilities. Our equipment is distinguished from existing analogues by high reliability and low cost. The production of products is fully localized at the facilities of the All-Russian Central Design Bureau "Polyus". We receive positive feedback from our customers about the work of the complex. We are currently working to expand the frequency range," said Anatoly Kuznetsov, General Director of the All-Russian Central Design Bureau Polyus.

Polyus has also developed, manufactures and supplies customers with the Groza UAV countermeasures system. The product is designed to protect personnel, military and civilian infrastructure from drone attacks. The range of the device is at least 300 m.

Further to previous discussion of shotgun ammo for counter-FPV work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lM05lX89i4

    Testing of Russia's first "Intercept" cartridges against drones

    The Russian company Tekhkrim presented new “Interception” cartridges designed to intercept drones. The tests were shown by journalist Alexander Rogatkin. Anti-drone cartridge 12/70 caliber, has 6 lead segments connected by Kevlar thread, the cartridge device is on the screen.

    When firing this cartridge, a strong Kevlar thread is revealed, which, when it hits a target, instantly gets tangled in the drone and disables it. The maximum diameter of the opened net of the Intercept cartridge is one meter; the net opens completely at a distance of 15-20 meters from the barrel cut.

    This solution will be especially effective against FPV drones, which have begun to attack infantry. According to the manufacturer, the effective firing range of the cartridge is up to 100 meters.

https://vpk.name/en/874913_the-blade-will-tear-special-drones-have-been-developed-to-combat-drones.html

    New ammunition will increase the effectiveness of the fight against small UAVs

    Special cartridges for fighting drones — 12/70 "Intercept" and 12/76 CS - were sent to the zone of the SVO. They are used for shooting smoothbore rifles. The first cartridge received an original design — its striking elements are connected by a Kevlar thread. A special ring is used in the construction of the second one. These structural elements increase the destructive power and accuracy of ammunition. Experts note that on the front line, our fighters are already shooting down drones from rifles with conventional hunting ammunition and special drones should significantly increase the effectiveness of this method of combating UAVs.

    Kevlar Web

    Anti—drone cartridges - 12/70 "Intercept" and 12/76 KS developed by CJSC Techkrim — were sent from Izhevsk for testing to the zone of a special military operation. The ammunition is designed for firing 12-gauge smoothbore rifles — the most common hunting rifles in Russia. Among them are the well-known multi-shot models "Saiga-12", "Boar-12", MP-155. As well as fractured, single—barreled and double-barreled - MR-18, MR-27, MR-43, TO3-34 and others.

    — We have already shipped the first batches of cartridges to the SVO zone, — Oleg Kuzmenko, director of CJSC Techkrim, told Izvestia.

    The Intercept cartridge is equipped with six lead segments, which are interconnected by a Kevlar thread.

Would be interesting to experiment with the design using different numbers and sizes and shapes of lead weights, perhaps even multiple rows of lead weights with multiple separate "nets".

Or they might just get tangled and not deploy properly.

Different calibres and different sizes could be used... perhaps a 40mm under barrel grenade launcher version that is launched and at 10-20m explodes sending a shower of fragments forward in a cone shaped arc... it could be used as a self defence round if enemy forces are charging you and could be fired from trenches or from inside buildings.

Would obviously be very carefully designed to not threaten the user with injury of course...

A related round could be designed to have a variable time fuse to explode at a set distance that could be manually set before firing perhaps or electronically set in flight that could be used on the automatic grenade launchers to take on air targets or enemy behind cover with no top cover.

These new shotgun rounds can be used from shotguns on the ground and in the air on drones...

They could even use small ball shaped lead beads with holes through them... you could use kevlar threads with lead beads tied along the length of the strands so they are not just located at the ends of the threads to act a bit like a flail to limit the spread of the lead weights, but also make each strand of kevlar cause more damage and tangle around any target it hits so it will foul propellers and disable all sorts of different drone types.

Essentially you have a length of kevlar thread and you poke it through the small hole in the lead weight and move the lead weight to a fixed position along the thread and then tie a knot to hold that bead in place. You can then put beads in either direction along the thread at regular or irregular intervals. You could have different numbers of strings tied together to form different patterns from circles to stars.

The larger calibre the round the more kevlar and lead weights you can fit... so the KS-23 shotgun could hold a very large amount of thread and weights.

Even in 12 gauge the standard shell length is 2 and 3/4 inch long shells (70mm), but you can also have 3 inch (76mm) magnum shells and even longer 3.5 inch shells (89mm) shells which has more internal volume for more weight of lead normally but in this case more kevlar strings as well.

Heavier lead weights will retain their velocity better, though normally for shotgun rounds the negative is that making them heavier means fewer projectiles which limits effective range because fewer pellets means at 40m or more the air space between the lethal projectiles becomes so great the chance of actually hitting the target becomes too low to make the shot worth it... even though a lucky hit can still wound or kill.

With these rounds being connected and unable to continue spreading the heavier loads with fewer projectiles actually makes good sense because they wont keep spreading but will retain lethality at much greater distances than lighter shot which slow down much faster.

A defensive hand grenade tends to have larger fragments that are lethal over greater distances because you are supposed to throw them from behind cover or from a building or trench.

An attack hand grenade has smaller fragments that rapidly slow down and loose effect so you can throw them during an attack without needing to take cover because the fragments are not effective at 10m or more.

This is the same principle.

https://iz.ru/1737013/iuliia-leonova/proverka-obozreniia-v-rossii-razrabotali-novuiu-rls-protiv-dronov
A new radar is on the way​
Lori is a three-coordinate radar station (radar) that can detect both ground and air targets at a range of up to 10 km and determine their coordinates. It can be used to protect industrial and economic facilities - power plants, oil refineries, airports.

"Now the demand for radars in the market of security systems is growing, and after analyzing the features of the use of existing products, as well as working out their shortcomings, in January of this year we began to develop Lori," the chief designer of the product from Eliars told Izvestia.
According to the developers, the station can automatically track targets that move at speeds of up to 200 km / h. As a rule, it is in this speed range that Ukrainian UAVs fly, trying to strike deep into Russian territory.

The developers said that the use of a radar station becomes more effective if it is used in conjunction with optoelectronic and radio intelligence systems with the ability to form target designation.
Preliminary tests of prototypes of the Lori radar are scheduled for February next year, and the start of production of a pilot batch is scheduled for September. According to the developers, the cost of the finished radar station will be tens of percent lower compared to existing domestic and foreign analogues.

https://iz.ru/1725938/iuliia-leonova/set-raz-otrezh-razrabotana-novaia-antidronovaia-sistema

GarryB wrote:Different calibres and different sizes could be used... perhaps a 40mm under barrel grenade launcher version that is launched and at 10-20m explodes sending a shower of fragments forward in a cone shaped arc... it could be used as a self defence round if enemy forces are charging you and could be fired from trenches or from inside buildings.

In the August issue of the magazine "Army Collection" from the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (distributed in open access) there is already an article on the use of AGS-17 and AGS-30 to combat small UAVs.

Do tell us more....

The Yak-52 trainer aircraft is going to be modified as a drone hunter!

https://sputnikglobe.com/20240821/modernized-russian-yak-52-aircraft-to-be-upgraded-to-fight-drones-1119853566.html

Russia’s Yak-52 is a single-engine, tandem-seat trainer aircraft designed by Yakovlev Design Bureau. The model is a derivative of the Yak-50 and is known for its impressive aerobatic capabilities and robust design.

The Aviastroitel Design Bureau is working on an upgraded version of the Yak-52 that will allow one of the most popular sports aircraft to be used not only for training flights, but also to fight against attack and reconnaissance drones.

The modernized Yak-52 trainer aircraft will be upgraded to combat drones, Dmitry Motin, head of the modernization project at the Aviastroitel Design Bureau, told Sputnik.

"Today, one of the priority projects of our bureau is the modernization of the Yak-52 trainer aircraft into the Yak-52B2 capable of combating UAVs. It is currently waiting for a certificate of airworthiness from Rosaviatsia [Russia's Federal Air Transport Agency]," he said.

According to him, the aircraft modernization concept includes installing new equipment, including a multi-function display in the rear cockpit.

"Navigation and control equipment, electronic warfare system for jamming communication channels and radar will be modernized," Dmitry Motin said.

A drone interception drone. It is optically guided. In the tests in the video the aiming system is offset so it does not impact the target so they can use it for repeated tests without needing lots and lots of target drones.

The drone interceptor itself is designed to chase down and directly hit the target with its own propellers positioned so as not to be damaged in the impact so the interceptor can be reused over and over.

I like the sound of that thing - it's the new Stuka!

Actually, I would say it is an I-16 going up against BF-109s, but modified to actually survive the encounter... so it can be repeated...