Russian defence against drone swarms

I have hunted ducks for many years.

I have never shot a bird with any type of firearm. I have shot a lot of rabbits and fast moving small vermin like stoats and ferrets and weasels.

I have two twin barrel over and under 12 gauge shotguns and one side by side twin barrel 12 gauge shotguns... all Russian, plus a Remmington five shot semi auto and a Japanese SKB five shot semi auto.

Was about to buy a Saiga or a Vepr but an immigrant ruined that for me by being a dick.

In terms of soldiers I would say a Saiga or a Vepr would be simpler and easier for Soldiers to learn to use and there is nothing inherently about a pistol grip or a box mag that means you can't shoot things in the air or small fast moving things on the ground.

Learning to lead a moving target is something you have to practise because it is a combination of distance and speed... faster targets and greater distances require more lead.

The video I posted above shows that at 35m even a short barrel Saiga gets the job done with a level of density which should get a few good hits with every pull of the trigger.

Shotguns don't work like lasers... it is not the case that a long barrel and a super tight choke will double the effective range and with different ammo types you really do have to test it because sometimes the spread of pellets is uneven and there are huge gaps in your patterns where nothing would get hit and you can't control where those gaps are.

Going to a lighter shot helps make the patterns more dense but also reduces the effect of hits too... and reduces effective range.

Really light shot as used in clay bird shooting has a huge number of pellets but wont cycle my semi auto shotgun because it is not designed for such light loads.

So it seems the GShG-7.62 gatling gun is an upgrade of the old model. The gas powered model overheated which limited its firing endurance.

The new model has an electric motor so the rate of fire can be changed from 5 rounds a second to 100 rounds per second (300rpm to 6,000rpm).

The original 12.7mm four barrel gatling gun used in the nose turret of the Hind also overheated so they redesigned it and made it heavier so it could fire off the entire store of ammo without overheating... the original YakB-12.7 was 45kgs, while the improved YakBYu-12.7 was 60kgs.

In comparison the original GShG-7.62 was 19kgs.

Here is one of the new videos popping up about it... they have found a small calibre gatling gun fired from the cabin door of a helicopter is the best way to shoot sea surface drones...

So this new shotgun ammo with the kevlar strands linking lead weights seems to be effective to about 75m which is rather good for a shotgun round.

In addition to using by individual soldiers it would also be useful to mount in drones to create a fighter type with forward firing perhaps belt fed 12 gauge shotguns.

Having a belt feed would mean it would be easier to carry rather more rounds than could be fitted in a box magazine or a drum magazine.

Some sort of linkless feed system could allow a large volume of fire without creating the danger area a rifle calibre machine gun would create on the battlefield.

To combat FPV drones... a drone...

Another item of belarussian design being tested by Russia...

Would be interesting to experiment with the design using different numbers and sizes and shapes of lead weights, perhaps even multiple rows of lead weights with multiple separate "nets".

Or they might just get tangled and not deploy properly.

Different calibres and different sizes could be used... perhaps a 40mm under barrel grenade launcher version that is launched and at 10-20m explodes sending a shower of fragments forward in a cone shaped arc... it could be used as a self defence round if enemy forces are charging you and could be fired from trenches or from inside buildings.

Would obviously be very carefully designed to not threaten the user with injury of course...

A related round could be designed to have a variable time fuse to explode at a set distance that could be manually set before firing perhaps or electronically set in flight that could be used on the automatic grenade launchers to take on air targets or enemy behind cover with no top cover.

These new shotgun rounds can be used from shotguns on the ground and in the air on drones...

They could even use small ball shaped lead beads with holes through them... you could use kevlar threads with lead beads tied along the length of the strands so they are not just located at the ends of the threads to act a bit like a flail to limit the spread of the lead weights, but also make each strand of kevlar cause more damage and tangle around any target it hits so it will foul propellers and disable all sorts of different drone types.

Essentially you have a length of kevlar thread and you poke it through the small hole in the lead weight and move the lead weight to a fixed position along the thread and then tie a knot to hold that bead in place. You can then put beads in either direction along the thread at regular or irregular intervals. You could have different numbers of strings tied together to form different patterns from circles to stars.

The larger calibre the round the more kevlar and lead weights you can fit... so the KS-23 shotgun could hold a very large amount of thread and weights.

Even in 12 gauge the standard shell length is 2 and 3/4 inch long shells (70mm), but you can also have 3 inch (76mm) magnum shells and even longer 3.5 inch shells (89mm) shells which has more internal volume for more weight of lead normally but in this case more kevlar strings as well.

Heavier lead weights will retain their velocity better, though normally for shotgun rounds the negative is that making them heavier means fewer projectiles which limits effective range because fewer pellets means at 40m or more the air space between the lethal projectiles becomes so great the chance of actually hitting the target becomes too low to make the shot worth it... even though a lucky hit can still wound or kill.

With these rounds being connected and unable to continue spreading the heavier loads with fewer projectiles actually makes good sense because they wont keep spreading but will retain lethality at much greater distances than lighter shot which slow down much faster.

A defensive hand grenade tends to have larger fragments that are lethal over greater distances because you are supposed to throw them from behind cover or from a building or trench.

An attack hand grenade has smaller fragments that rapidly slow down and loose effect so you can throw them during an attack without needing to take cover because the fragments are not effective at 10m or more.

This is the same principle.

Do tell us more....

A drone interception drone. It is optically guided. In the tests in the video the aiming system is offset so it does not impact the target so they can use it for repeated tests without needing lots and lots of target drones.

The drone interceptor itself is designed to chase down and directly hit the target with its own propellers positioned so as not to be damaged in the impact so the interceptor can be reused over and over.

Actually, I would say it is an I-16 going up against BF-109s, but modified to actually survive the encounter... so it can be repeated...

It seems that Russia is deploying special shotgun teams to camouflaged positions... likely with IR camo as well and are trying to intercept FPV drones on their way to other targets.

Making every soldier carry two firearms is a bit of a burden, plus you can't just hand a shotgun to someone and expect them to be able to hit fast moving elusive manouverable targets every time, and if it is going for them they only have to miss one to die..

It makes more sense to select soldiers who show an aptitude or have hunting experience for the job to defend their unit or trench or vehicle... in the same way a unit will have a designated marksman with an SVD and a bit of extra shooting training.

This is going to be part of the solution, but friendly drones hunting down enemy drones and enemy drone controllers, as well as jammers and laser based antidrone weapons, and also taking out the recon drones directing the suicide and FPV drones would also be part of the solution.

Airburst cannon shells and airburst grenade launcher rounds and EMP shells could also contribute.

Even just good camouflage and nets and cages and top cover...

Just the other day I was putting up my clothes on the line for drying and it just occurred to me -

Why not use a really long pike (think 7-10m) to put up a very wide mesh? Sort of like an umbrella with a very long handle?

Its low tech. Can be scaled to match FPV drone production pretty easily.

In use it'd be a lot controllable. Much easier to wave a pike around than aim at a very small, very fast target, even with the forgiving spread of buckshot and special kevlar wire cartridges.

Teams of soldiers can combine their net pikes to better improve their chances of stopping a drone...

Why not use a really long pike (think 7-10m) to put up a very wide mesh? Sort of like an umbrella with a very long handle?

Interesting idea, but the main problem with original Pikes was their length and the fact that you couldn't sling the or put them in a scabbard when not in use... so either you lay it on the ground or you carried it around in your hands all the time.

I think a shotgun could be much shorter and much lighter and could be used multiple times against a variety of targets... you could use it in trench warfare and in urban combat it is good for blowing locks on doors or hinges. The americans called their shotgun attachments for their rifles Masterkey for that reason... and with it attached to a rifle like a 40mm grenade launcher means you could fire a shotgun slug to blow a door hinge and you still had a 5.56mm rifle with 30 rounds ready to fire.

An umbrella like pike is interesting but a few drones that explode could render it useless with use... of course it will have done its job, but the real problem is awkwardness of carrying around a pole vault pole.

Once you get to your trench position however a fine mesh held up by multiple long poles so drones can't get within 10 metres of your trench or bunker would be useful and for parked vehicles and set of long poles and fine invisible fishing line could form an invisible barrier that keeps exploding warheads away from your troops and vehicles.

A couple of 10m long poles with mesh net with a fine mesh could be rolled up and spread along gaps in trees and bushes to capture or trap low flying FPV drones flying low trying to get to targets... you could put the poles next to tree trunks or bushes or buildings and have the net fill the gap between obstacles like trees and bushes and buildings. Difficult to spot from drone cameras and should ensnare any drone trying to fly through that gap.

Most important, to avoid such nets their drones will have to fly over things which makes them easier to spot and deal with using shotgun rounds and other systems.

(I don't think any one solution should be used because one solution is not going to defeat all types of threats...)