"Poseidon" Nuclear-armed Underwater Drone

flamming_python wrote:


Considering how everyone at Pentagon is getting their panties in a bunch it might be decent idea after all. Can't shoot down a torpedo with ABM shields (not that it works but you know...).


Problem with this idea is - what's to stop the US developing one too?

IF you look at the world map , Russia is a continent connected to a GIANT Land Mass
of ASIA.. So a Poseidon like system will be minimal the damages it will do to Russia
economy ,since Russia Trade can come from Land.. Russia actually don't need to use
the sea for most of its trading. China near and Europe too.. and the biggest exports of Russia
are Energy , natural gas to Europe.. so those pipelines ,are easy to repair or rebuild if destroyed .
And Americans can't use nuclear weapons so close to their allies.. for example if they attack ST petersburg.. it will affect Findland and Estonia too the radiation... And guess what ? Russia don't have such problems..    Russia can nuke the entire eastern Coast of US and it will not affect Europe ,only US.. and contrary to Russia , that don't depend as much of sea ports trading... US economy most of
what they export is through Naval ports..  So Poseidon Benefits far more Russia ,than it could to USA..  Russia can continue trading with Europe , through land Route ,using Belarus..no problem if ST peterburg coast nuked.. Ukraine for sure will be invaded by Russia in case of world war 3 scenario with US to secure a road to Europe from eastern Europe and so gloves will be off ,anything will be valid.. no longer international laws will matter.. that if US start/provoke a World War 3 vs Russia.  
Poseidon can also be used to create  a giant 50 meters wave Psunami towards US eastern coast..
that is very swampy and under water..  just the other day Miami was a small part of it under water after bad weather.. imagine the detonation of 6 x 50 megaton bombs.. in the atlantic.. The huge wave will cover in radioactive water most of the eastern coast of US..

Russia in the other hand ,is on a high elevation tectonic place... Lavrov even spoke about this..
in case of a nuclear war with US... So Russia is less vulnerable to flood than US is.. and the problem also that to detonate a nuke in any part of the northern coast of Russia will affect most important US allies too..

So in short because Russia trade don't depend on water routes.. can be done all through land routes..
So is very little what US can gain from developing a drone like Poseidon ..  US in the other hand .if their eastern Coast is destroyed by underwater nukes ... their entire trade with Europe and latin America will be shot down...   So Poseidon was developed by Russia to be 100% sure..
that Americans understand ,that Russia have the capabilities ,to completely shutdown US trade with Europe.. while Americans can't do that to Russia.. since can't shut down the territorial routes.  

and since Russia don't have  an offensive large navy or aircraft carriers ,Russia military is mostly land defensive and airforce.. and underwater subs.then neither US will benefit much from a Poseidon Submarine..something they can do with their stealth planes armed with Glide nuclear bombs..  US in the other hand have most of their military , depends of their Navy..  So if US have 12 aircraft carriers.. then All Russia needs to defeat US navy is 12 drones.. US aircraft carriers will be very easy targets . Russia simply detonate the drones with 50 megaton warheads under Aircraft cariers formation.. wiping not only the aircraft carriers but entire warships escorting it..

Poseidon if Russia produce lets say a Dozen of them..each one with 4 or more drones.. it will allow to completely crush US ,coastal zones in a surprise attack and their entire navy too.. if all of them positioned in place.. So US warships will be forced to abandon the deep water and navigate in very shallow waters all the time to avoid Poseidon. Hypersonic missiles can do the same but needs more missiles and Russia don't have any on their submarines yet..
Those drones are kamikazis nuclear drones and will be very hard to counter that.. specially in deep waters.. the Poseidon carrier could also have some versions of them , armed with 100 ,200 to 400 hypersonic underwater launched nuclear missiles..  So is an effortless elegant weapon .. because Russia could park those drones for months ,near US eastern coast.. and take by surprise US and allow Russia to sneak a very powerful massive nuclear strike of many underwater nuclear armed drones. without warning ..if they sneak all the way to the coast..

Poseidon ,to understand the kind of strategy capabilities ,it can achieve..
it can be used as a suicide terror underwater sub super nuke bomb attack.. that Rush to the target and is difficult to stop it..

Isos wrote:Just thought about something. The original code name of that weapon is status-6... 6... does that mean there are 5 other nuclear midget weapons ?

The nuclear cruise missile may be one of them. Which means they could have something like 4 others. There is also the midget nuclear reactor supposed to be used on the sea floor.

So another 3 that we don't know about using midget nuclear reactor ? A space ship maybe ? Or a nuclear satelitte ? Or maybe pak da will use a small reactor, if the missile can why not a bomber ?

Imo it's not impossible. Russians are always secret so if they talked about those weapons they are probably hiding some other much more useful.

Skiff - sea bed launched ICBM?

Isos wrote:Just thought about something. The original code name of that weapon is status-6... 6... does that mean there are 5 other nuclear midget weapons ?

Not nuclear but there is the Klavesin-R2-PM UUV




Latest news...

Klavesin-R2-PM ("Harpsichord") UUV had a succesful test in 2018 according to Rubin design bureau annual report. Correct design solutions, basic principles and algorithms of operations confirmed.
https://mobile.twitter.com/KomissarWhipla/status/1139817677432729600

Should be useful for Poseidon:

In Russia, invented a "secret" alternative to GLONASS

Russian engineers have found an alternative navigation system GLONASS, which will allow for accurate orientation under water. Developed by scientists from the Saratov state University of the geomagnetic sensor will not only provide underwater vehicles exact coordinates, but additionally can be used to search for minerals, and study processes inside the Earth.



The advantage of innovation is that it will support seamless communication and coordination in the water column, where the satellite system is inefficient by reason of the attenuation of electromagnetic waves. And if submarines the control can take pilots for drones the new system will be a real "find".

The essence of the invention lies in the fact that thanks to developed by domestic scientists, the sensors can determine the object's location on the geomagnetic map, which, in turn, is tied to geography. Such devices are already created before, however, their main drawback was the lack of sensitivity to the geomagnetic fields and, conversely, excessive perception of temperature change.

Saratov engineers managed to solve the above problem, using your instruments, the ferrite material, sensitive to even very weak magnetic field. In addition, scientists have collected a laboratory sample that can operate at temperatures from -50 to +40 degrees Celsius.

The only obstacle in the implementation of promising project is the lack of the most accurate geomagnetic maps. Work on its drafting was last conducted in the 70-ies of the last century. In addition, the intensity of the geomagnetic field in the same point over time can change. However, re-measurement can be used the same sensors.

However, even if the updated map in the near future will not appear, Saratov development can find application in the search for deposits of iron ore, which greatly distorts the magnetic field. Plus, the sensors are useful for tracking the displacement of the geomagnetic poles, which will undoubtedly contribute to basic scientific research.

https://translate.yandex.com/translate?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftopcor.ru%2F10378-v-rossii-izobreli-podvodnuju-alternativu-glonass.html&lang=ru-en

Basically the underwater equivalent to inertial guidance. Should have high resistance to ECM warfare.

^^^
Sounds like a promising development

...

Not official, but the Pr 09851 "Khabarovsk" will reportedly be launched by the end of the year
https://ria.ru/20190727/1556929941.html

This is the sub that's designed specifically for the Poseidon as it's main weapon

Cyberspec wrote:^^^
Sounds like a promising development

...

Not official, but the Pr 09851 "Khabarovsk" will reportedly be launched by the end of the year
https://ria.ru/20190727/1556929941.html

This is the sub that's designed specifically for the Poseidon as it's main weapon

So are SLBM and and ICT (Intercontinental Torpedo) subs to remain separate vehicles, or do they ever plan on combining them both?

It would be like combining SSBN with SSGN or SSGN with SSN, which will defeat the purpose of each & compromise all of their missions. They don't need many Poseidon carriers anyway, so keeping them separate won't be too costly.

Tsavo Lion wrote:It would be like combining SSBN with SSGN or SSGN with SSN, which will defeat the purpose of each & compromise all of their missions. They don't need many Poseidon carriers anyway, so keeping them separate won't be too costly.

1.) The U.S. says START-3 would require all the new strategic systems to fall under the treaty, meaning that SSB's and the Poseidon subs fall underneath them. They would demand that the introduction of one sub for the reduction of another type, if they ever plan on negotiating START-3, they would have to combine platforms or lose some either way. It's idiotic to make the SSGN/SSN comparison, when was the last time Kilos have ever fallen under START?

2.) How would it defeat the purpose and compromise their mission? Yet another idiotic statement. They're going to bomb strategic targets with strategic warheads, undetected from several thousand km's away. SBLM's would hit in 30 minutes, and the Poseidon's would hit a day later. Launch of either would mean WW3 and the end of modern civilization as we know it. The use of attack subs in conflicts have never caused the outbreak of WW3, so put your goofball sandwich down.

3.) "Keeping them separate won't be too costly" Yet another idiotic statement. It'll be costly if they ever fall under START-3, they'll have to reduce the number of SSBM's, and introducing a new strategic sub series and maintaining them is way more expensive when you compare it to improving an already existing series.

No more nuclear treaties with yanqui vermin, period. All of the treaties signed by the USSR and inherited by Russia have served the
interests of Americans. Their whole game plan was to reduce Russian nuclear missile numbers low enough for their wank-fest ABM
to neutralize Russia. Now that they are throwing a tantrum, is the perfect time to unload all idiotic obligations. The yanquis can in
no way benefit to the return of massive warhead and launcher numbers seen during the 1970s and 80s. And this happens to be
the perfect asymmetric neutering of NATO's conventional forces advantage. Nuclear ICBMs, IRBMs, cruise missiles, etc. are the
cheapest and highest bang for the buck weapons systems bar none.

BTW, perhaps a nuclear arms race will wake up the sheeple in NATO. In the past, all those nuclear warheads made them wet their
beds and come out into the streets to protest against war. Now for some reason they are quiet and don't care.

The U.S. says START-3 would require all the new strategic systems to fall under the treaty, meaning that SSB's and the Poseidon subs fall underneath them.

They could care less what the US says now days! Russia doesn't need START-3 anytime soon: she will develop asymmetric means w/o getting into a new arms race with any1.
China won't reduce her arsenal since it borders on Russia & India & she tries to regain her lost position as the Middle Kingdom; it's not like the US vs. the USSR + client & non-aligned states anymore. So, Russia needs to be at least as equal, if not stronger, to China to retain her independence. About military friendship with China
https://regnum.ru/news/polit/2698359.html

It's idiotic to make the SSGN/SSN comparison, when was the last time Kilos have ever fallen under START?

Kilos r multipurpose diesel subs- not like the purpose built Oscars & Yasens SSGNs that r bigger & better armed than hunter-killers Akula SSNs.

How would it defeat the purpose and compromise their mission?

putting SLBMs & UUVs on the same submay be too complicated; SSBNs have their patrol areas optimal for deterrence & Poseidon mother subs will be hunted by SSNs & other ASW assets as soon as they leave base; their operational tactics will be different depending on what target(s) is to be destroyed- on shore or at sea.

"Keeping them separate won't be too costly" Yet another idiotic statement. It'll be costly if they ever fall under START-3, they'll have to reduce the number of SSBN's, and introducing a new strategic sub series and maintaining them is way more expensive when you compare it to improving an already existing series.

even if the do, the older Delta IVs &/ Boreys can be decommissioned/converted to SSGNs earlier to bring the total #s down, converted to SSGNs, as was done before with Delta IIIs & Typhoons. To me, ur statements r idiotic!

This is probably the most deadly weapon in Russia inventory or anywhere in future..
More deadly that Avangard . BEcause the belgorod Submarine will carry 6x ~100 megatons
kamikazi subs..

So if people analize for a moment what this really means..  the possibilities for
tactical use..are endless.  For example Russia with good intelligence through satellites
and other sources of US navy aircraft carriers positions..  and with enough Poseidon Subs... lets say just 12x poseidon suicide nuke subs.. if they used in a preventive attack.. against
US.. lets say ,that Russia takes reach the conclusion though many sources that war can't be avoided and that Americans are preparing to take the risk , because US economy will collapse and the crazy generals take the decision to bypass/arrest /kidnap in order to start a nuclear war with Russia..that targets all Russia military bases..  Then Russia will have at hand the option to completely erase the US navy.. in a very easy way..

just sending a 50 -100 megaton
nuke deep underwater of US aircraft carrier formation.. and that will instantly kill withing a few seconds everyone in a radius of 50km distance.    Not only the aircraft carrier,
but also the escort ships ,the warplanes in the aircraft carrier and the submarines under water too ,could be seriously damaged if not destroyed.   So 12 poseidon subs.. can be deployed in place , near US aircraft carriers formation.. lets say 10km-30km away.. and still
will destroy it.. with the shock wave and third degree burns of planes fuel and the shock wave will crush all humans bones up to 50km away.  So it will be a guarantee kill..

Poseidon allows Russia takes a very HUGE devastating advantage over US navy in a preventive attack. So there will be no time to counter attack with the navy.. and if Russia knows the positions of Ohios subs.. even better. can destroy them very easily from 20km away of distance , a deep detonation will sink them.  

Also they can be used to shut down the most important  trading ports too..of US and submarines bases.. is a very useful weapon.. and im sure Trump will include that Submarine in a nuclear treaty..for being too lethal for them to deal..

Look at the next video .. shows Poseidon attacking an Aircraft carrier formation when leaving from a base in what could be inspired by Florida state.. while at the same time
a second poseidon Sub nuke  the coast of florida in the western part.

the video is on another language.. so don't understand it.. but in the end
at minute 5:15 there is an interesting CG
Animation that visually explain how lethal the submarine is..
Notice in the video how Poseidon is supposed to be used.. with simultaneos coordinated
attack and mass scale too.. and at the same time.. So enemies Adversary navies will NOT even know they are under attack ..it will be an instant kill ,in seconds.. of entire aircraft
carrier formations and Naval ports in land.




Poseidon is truly a game changing scary weapon.. a very simple concept but that works very well..thanks to the powerful force of the nuke that is estimated could have 50 to 100 megaton.... but in order to really take advantage of it..
have to be used preventivelly before any declaration of war.. and in a day Russia adversaries are not expecting Russia to do it. No US navy surface warship or aircraft carrier will be save with Poseidon.. Will not be surprising if China or even North korea start working with such simple but very effective lethal weapons. and if Russia discover Ohio positions is even worse.. When nation security is at risk , Putin will not give a damn of Duma parliament laws of no first use.. a first coordinated mass scale first strike will give a major
advantage to who do it.. and because this are not missiles ,and go underwater ,if used in time of "peace" , the enemy will now know what to do even if detected ,if the sub is on international waters. Just 2-3 belgorod subs carriers armed with Poseidons each ,is all Russia need to create major terror to any NATO navy.

Russia Wants Four Submarines Armed With the Nuclear Doomsday Torpedo

https://www.checkpointasia.net/russia-wants-four-submarines-armed-with-the-nuclear-doomsday-torpedo/

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russia-wants-four-submarines-armed-nuclear-warhead-drones-can-cause-tsunamis-73606

PapaDragon wrote:
Russia Wants Four Submarines Armed With the Nuclear Doomsday Torpedo

https://www.checkpointasia.net/russia-wants-four-submarines-armed-with-the-nuclear-doomsday-torpedo/

That report is full of the same misleading bullshit ,i always hear from American media
so called "Experts" that downplay Poseidon Drone capabilities..  But they are always
incredibly misleading awfully wrong..


Their first mistake..

1)That poseidon is a "revenge" weapon..  
Yeah as long they believe it.. better for Russia.. Because poseidon its biggest
feature is it precisely its capability to launch a surprise attack , under their noses..
and destroy anything near the drone ,without any warning.. So absolutely NOTHING
stop Russia from using the drones for a preventive attack.. Which is were more deadlier
the drone will be ..  
2)They claim that .. is not any better than intercontinental nuclear missiles..
   because it will take days to Poseidon to reach the US coast.. while the bulava missiles
    or trident missiles can reach in less than half an hour each other countries..  FALSE.
   They assume ,that Russia will have the Poseidon drones parked in RUssia naval bases
  and that only when Russia is attacked ,then putin will send a petition to the parliament to declare war on that nation and then half and hour later ,an order given to send the drone to US coast.. for revenge.   What the idiots don't realize is that nothing stop Russia from having those Drones parked for months withing 300km of eastern or western US Coast.. without violating their territorial waters..just waiting orders.. and an order given to hit a naval port..or a city, so the drone approach any city in total silence in stealth mode.. This drone could deploy hundred of decoys too , before approaching ,eventually making it very hard to intercept the real drone
3)They also ignore the drone can operate like a nuclear mine.. that self deploy where ordered.. and they just wait US aircraft carriers get closer to their positions and bang..
it will be totally invincible and impossible to stop in deep waters.. Even the Russia own animations show this scenario.. Poseidon park near US military bases.. from international waters.. and wait for any Battlegroup to pass.. and wipe it..  The atlantic Sea and the Pacific sea will be a grave yard of the US navy. since the drone is very fast.. and very deep ,they will not be able to stop it ,from getting close enough  to their warships.
-if the drone positions close enough 20km of an aircraft carrier formation, it will shutdown the entire convoy. The shock wave ,the pressure is so high ,that can break every bone in any human body and will kill every living thing in those warships..and aircraft carrier and totally destroy their radars and electronics..  if the drone position right under the aircraft
carrier formation.. it will be instant kill ,and the fireball ,will vaporize everything.


If poseidon detonates at distance. 20km from them..Russia can wipe out the sailors in those warships and Russia can later do piracy and steal those warships and aircraft carriers since everyone will be dead and fried inside ,as easy as taking a candy away from a kid..
or can sink them just using a cheap torpedo..  Choke points like in Persian Gulf.. hormuz
Gilbraltar ,Suez , will be super easy .. just park the poseidon near and wait they pass, then detonate the bomb and anything 20km to 50km near will be wiped. .

In summary Poseidon can be used in any way the Russian military desire,, is not limited
only to "Revenge attacks"  , if USED in a preventive attack ,that Russia understand
that US is preparing from a nuclear war and the order already exist to attack Russia in a preventive strike.. Then Russia will have the option to plan to do a mass scale ambush on all US aircraft carriers and warships .  and neither Russia needs to wait "days" for Poseidon to strike any US coastal city.. It can be just 300km away.. of US coast. and when order given ,approach in silence.and get very close and the last 50km ,when the city can be seen on the horizon .. rush at full speed.  . For attacking cities they will need a very heavy nuke ,
like the official leak papers claimed , that it was capable of 100 megaton nuke. Russia will have no problem mounting a modified TSAR bomb ,to fit inside so a poseidon drone. and if for some reasons any coastal zone is heavily protected.. it can detonate 2 bombs.. one to wipe out the defenses above water or under water when comes close , clearing the way for the Second Poseidon drone to enter with totally cleared path..  

Poseidon best capabilities is that is a no warning ambush weapon.. not a revenge weapon.. but also can be used for revenge if desired.. but will be less effective ,because in that case the enemy of Russia will be warned and so their warships will spread and no longer protect their aircraft carriers with destroyers and will disperse them over a very large
area. to minimize the effectiveness of Poseidon drone.

The only best thing , than a couple of dozen of Poseidon drones ,will be a space bombers armed with dozens of hypersonic missiles.. Permanently patrolling Russia adversaries space zone.. that is international space . NASA already fly one mini shuttle above Russia exosphere space zone ,so Russia needs to do the same.. That will be more expensive but it will be worth of it..

Vann7 wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Russia Wants Four Submarines Armed With the Nuclear Doomsday Torpedo

https://www.checkpointasia.net/russia-wants-four-submarines-armed-with-the-nuclear-doomsday-torpedo/

That report is full of the same misleading bullshit

Compared to your usual incoherent idiotic drivel it a doctorate level dissertation

Vann7 wrote:Their first mistake...

1)That poseidon is a "revenge" weapon..

Of course it's a revenge weapon, it's a reason for existence of entire Russian nuclear arsenal

Otherwise Russia would have been nuclear aggressor

Are you claiming that Russia is nuclear aggressor?

..to explode in the english channel to sink london and coastal france

before that, they'll want to evacuate all Russians from there, & thus giving ample warning that something bad is planned. Besides, in those shallow waters it will be a lot easier to detect it & there won't be as much water to create a big wave. The radiation will then get airborne & with prevailing winds boomerang back to Russia.

It became known how the unmanned "Poseidon" will sail to the United States

The expectation is that the west is going to kill a lot of Russians, and so this weapon is part of a force designed to kill as many people in the west as possible and damage the planet so badly most humans will die...

I still doubt they would use it against W. Europe- their target is N. America's coasts, & they don't want to kill any more people, (incl. their own, most of whom live West of the Urals) on the planet than necessary.

It could be used to sink command ships, MEUs & SSBNs as well- an underwater nuke doesn't need "to find a needle in a haystack".

I don't think you are getting the meaning of doomsday weapon.

it has the same meaning as an SSBN armed with nuclear-tipped SLBMs- a 2nd strike capability acts as a damn good deterrent; that's why in the USN their deployments r called "deterrence patrols".
Now, SSBNs r still vulnerable at their bases & at sea; their BMs/warheads may be intercepted in space.
The Poseidon bypasses all that, & the damage it can inflict is a lot bigger & longer lasting. With this weapon system, there's no need to have as many SSBNs, SSNs & a surface fleet + aviation to protect them.