To Zivo:
"There's an interview with General Sergei Maev that Alexei Khlopotov posted earlier this year. He's one of the few people that has driven Object 195 and he stated Object 195 carried 40 rounds of 15Xmm ammunition. Since the layout is similar, Armata's magazine should carry at least 40 rounds."
I see. Do you think ALL 40 rounds would have been carried in the autoloader?
"What this is, is KBTM's proposal for the Armata BMPT. It's main armament is actually a 120mm rifled gun/mortar. It also has a small bustle."
Oops
I thought that was Armata prototype from UVZ. Thank you for correction.
"Chances are, this is what the MBT will look like, or at least what UVZ will propose."
I see. It looks there is much space on the turret sides, which could be utilized by mounting secondary armaments there (smoke grenades could be mounted on turret top). I think, fitting just 7,62mm would be wrong.
"Regarding auxiliary weapons, it's anyone's guess. An MBT could benefit from have a 12.7mm coaxial gun, a 14.5mm weapon would be highly effective at dealing with infantry. 30mm would be overkill because a MBT doesn't need the additional anti-armor capability offered by the 30mm autocannon."
That's right, but I believe, that effectiveness of any particular armament really does depend in what battle environment tank would be fighting. 30mm would be very effective against buildings and trenches. Therefore, modular secondary armaments on turret sides would seem the best option for me.
To GarryB:
"One piece ammo doesn't make the projectiles longer... if anything it restricts the length of the projectile even shorter than two piece ammo.
Very simply if you want to arrange your ammo in a circle around the floor of the turret in an underfloor ammo magazine then the length of the entire round is dictated by the diameter of the turret ring. Whether the ammo is one piece or two piece or three piece for that matter the length limit remains the diameter of the turret ring.
Just because the armata MBT wont have ammo stored in a rear turret bustle does not mean there will not be a turret bustle area for the ammo to be loaded into the rear of the gun."
I was under impression that two peace ammo was specifically created for easier handling, isn't it?
About autoloader. Probably you didn't notice. I proposed to store both propellants and rounds vertically
which would kind of remove the turret ring width limit, wouldn't it?
And yes, it doesn't mean, probably. However, it would be the best interest for tank designers to limit the volume of the turret for weight reasons.
"I don't know that vertically stored ammo would increase internal capacity... I would suspect two layers of ammo with 44 rounds stored in the autoloader ready to fire in 1125mm calibre is more likely along with perhaps a 4-6 round small autoloader near the gun chamber for rapid fire that is loaded from the under floor ammo cassettes... but that is just speculation on my part."
Yes it is possible. But I believe that it would be very complex ("dense") design, and very hard to access in case of malfunction or maintenaince procedures. Vertical rounds just sound so much simpler. Besides, horizontally stored rounds have that nasty length limit, haven't they?
"That model was described as having a rifled 120mm gun, which makes it an automatic gun/mortar of the type fitted to the Vena gun/mortar system.
From this it has been generally concluded that this vehicle is the BMPT of the Armata family... or one prototype from one factory anyway.
(PS I liked that design a lot assuming it had a long barrel 40mm Balkan grenade launcher, 120mm gun/mortar, and a 23mm 6 barrel gatling."
Yes, I was corrected on that one. However, I don't think mounting cannons on BMPTs is a good idea. It's first goal is to increase safety for the crew, that means all ammunition and (possibly) fuel shouldn't be stored near the crew. Besides, I think that a BMPT with a cannon isn't really needed, because there is already existing vehicle in this category. It's called a tank
"AFAIK there were suggestions of a 30mm coaxial gun on the T-95, but I suspect in the interests of ammo capacity they might go for a single barrel 23mm KPB (KPV HMG in 23 x 115mm calibre) which has a lot of punch but much smaller and more compact ammo (about HMG ammo sized rounds).
It has a low velocity but a good HE shell with a good punch... it could also have a 40mm grenade launcher instead, plus HMG and coaxial MG."
As I mentioned earlier, usability of secondaries varies greatly, so modular weapons would be the most flexible option.
"There is likely a fire and forget gun tube launched missile (Sokol-1) so ATGM option is probably redundant, and the rockets would likely be less useful than a HE shell,"
It is not, if thermobaric warhead is carried
And sure, ATGM is not better than HE shell, but it is, if long range accuracy is required.
"a Vasilek 82mm automatic mortar mount with continuous belt feed would be a very powerful light addition that would allow targets to be engaged with heavy HE rounds in larger numbers than 125 or 152mm HE rounds could be carried... allowing more anti armour rounds to be carried."
Eh, that would be very complex mounting... I think S-8 rocket pod could be a much better and mechanically simpler option than Vasilek. And if more firepower would be required, these could be pretty easily replaced by S-13 or, in case of emergencies, the S-24/25 buildings buster
"The low velocity of the 82mm mortar means targets behind frontal protection can more easily be engaged too."
Yes, but the downside of that is shorter range, it really would be the matter of preffered battlefield requirements, I think
"We need to keep in mind that the Russians aren't against all turret bustles... the T-90AM has a turret bustle... they just don't like storing lots of ammo there."
When I mentioned the bustle, I was thinking more along the lines of the bustle connected by doors, via which the ammo is supplied directly to the turret, like in Object 640 or that "Burlak" prototype. The structurally separate ammo storage bustle is, of course, possible.
To collegeboy16:
"With the vertical AL, I count 56. Assuming the same diameter of propellant charge which is 140mm, stack 2 on each of 28 of the propellant holder, then fill the inner part with projectiles, and move the machinery to the corners."
Very interesting
Could you elaborate a bit more if possible?
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