[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

Werewolf wrote:

medo wrote:How effective is DIRCM against IIR and TI homing heads?

DIRCMs were invented because IIR seekers of MANPADS for exampe, are almost immune to conventional countermeasures like FLAREs.
Of course i don't have actual statistics but relying on developers claims it is in the figure of 8-9/10 missiles can be intercepted by such system, of course under trial tests not combat environment.

In that case placing DIRCM on tanks will be best solution against ATGMs like Javelin and Spike.

The question is what's more effective and affordable? A DIRCM or Nakidka?

Both would be nice though.   

Zivo wrote:The question is what's more effective and affordable? A DIRCM or Nakidka?

Both would be nice though.   

just hit it with APS, would make for great fireworks display.  

Well the question of special layered armour OR ERA OR APS OR EO jamming equipment OR smoke grenade launchers for T-90 tanks was pretty much answered with yes to everything... I rather suspect with Armata they will want every technology too.

One technology might not be effective against all threats but a dozen different defensive measures makes it a tough nut to crack.

GarryB wrote:Well the question of special layered armour OR ERA OR APS OR EO jamming equipment OR smoke grenade launchers for T-90 tanks was pretty much answered with yes to everything... I rather suspect with Armata they will want every technology too.

One technology might not be effective against all threats but a dozen different defensive measures makes it a tough nut to crack.

Out of curiosity, is their any footage of live firing of the GSh-23-6, or the Yak-B-12.7, or the GShG-7.62? Apparently the only footage of Soviet/Russian gatling guns and vulcans are the many variants of the GSH-6-30 (which are quite nice btw).

While on the topic my favorite picture from Kuzmin's photo collection, it's seriously a thing of beauty what do you say?

Unfortunately, I've never seen it shot on video.



If anyone has any information about the GSh-6-23's pyrotechnic windup system I'd love to see it.

I have seen footage of the 12.7mm gatlings on the Hinds... a bright orange ball of fire about half a metre across just appears at the end of the barrels... of course the standard round for that weapon was a duplex cartridge with two projectiles so its actual rate of fire was about 9,000 rpm.

I have seen brief footage of the 30mm 6 barrel gatling being fired on the Mig-27... note the gun is 6 metres from the nose of the aircraft but is fitted with muzzle blast deflectors to prevent the fireball blinding the pilot at night...

I also have seen footage of the twin 30mm cannon on the Hind, but have not seen the 23mm gatling, the twin 23mm gun of the new Hinds, or the 30cal gatling of the Ka-29 being fired.

Gsh 6-30 (AK 360)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWzRehv-Tlc (AK 630)
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9cc_1295667231 (Gsh 6-30 on MiG-27)

Gsh 12.7 Mi-24V

Polish, couldnt find better even tho the gunner had a bad grouping, actually the Gsh 12.7 has a much more accurate fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYwTGbSGTyI

at (0:45)

Couldn't find any footage of Gsh 6-23.

And no good footage of GshG 7.62mm either, at least nothing worth watching.

This is the best i can provide of GshG-7.62mm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51VLaFq5qXQ


Correction found footage of Su-24 and Gsh 6-23mm shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51VLaFq5qXQ

24:30 it starts but only for short moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RXKAWVm78E

Afghani Mi-25s firing 12.7mm...

EDIT: Werewolf, could u check your last Su-24 link? It brings me to the DCS Ka-50 link...curious to see the Su-24 fire its gun .

TR1 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RXKAWVm78E

Afghani Mi-25s firing 12.7mm...

EDIT: Werewolf, could u check your last Su-24 link? It brings me to the DCS Ka-50 link...curious to see the Su-24 fire its gun .

Hmm, yea was my mistake.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvv2CFgmRhk


at 24:30 it starts but you want be satisfied, not even 3 seconds long in total.

Thank you! Damn, too short. There is precious little footage of Su-24 doing its thing, funny considering it has been the most numerous Russian tactical aircraft for years.

I searched via google, youtube and several hours via yandex for someone who uploaded videoes but so far without success.
I also tried to find Gsh-30L for Mi-24VM2/3 (Mi-35M), also without success.

Werewolf wrote:I searched via google, youtube and several hours via yandex for someone who uploaded videoes but so far without success.
I also tried to find Gsh-30L for Mi-24VM2/3 (Mi-35M), also without success.

...Thanks for the footage, and the hard work. How can such engineering masterpieces such as the Soviet/Russian gatling guns and vulcans have so little footage floating on the internet? I mean we still need to hunt down footage of the elusive GSHG-7.62mm. Any footage of it would suffice, hell if it's mounted on an 80's era Toyota truck a.k.a. a "Technical" I wouldn't mind that at all. In the weapons realm when it comes to vulcans, Russia is clearly leading the pack by a wide margin. Every Russian vulcan/gatling in the various cartridge variants are simply superior to Western analogues in virtually every significant attribute. The widest margin being between M61 Vulcan and the GSH-6-23, were the latter fires a more powerful round (20 x 102 mm vs 23 x 115 mm) and has anywhere from 2-to-3 times the firing rate, and doesn't require an external power source implying that its more reliable/durable and cost effective.

For footage of the GShG-7.62 I would suggest looking through navy footage as the weapon is only operational AFAIK on the Ka-29 troop assault helo.


BTW:

If anyone has any information about the GSh-6-23's pyrotechnic windup system I'd love to see it.

Soviet Gatlings don't have "pyrotechnic" windups... most are powered by gas pressure like an assault rifle. The exception AFAIK is the light AK-306 and 306K guns using the lightened simplified GSh-6-30L. It fires are a rate of 600-1000 rpm and at such a low rate can fire continuously and not overheat.

It doesn't have a cooling system and has an external motor to operate it.

Most other Russian and Soviet gatlings use a compressed air starter and gas power to continue firing.

The pyrotechnic starter is used in most Soviet and Russian autocannons including single and twin barrel weapons and consists of a squib charge that is directed at the side of the shell case... the intention is to blow a small hole in the side of the shell and ignite the propellent when the main primer has failed. In the case of most of the gatling guns the rate of fire is so high that if one or even two or three rounds together fail to fire when the primer is hit or the firing circuit completed (for the electrically fired rounds) the momentum of the barrels will cycle the weapon and a small reduction in rate of fire that probably wouldn't be noticed by the gunner or target would be the result.
In a 2A42 cannon however where the recoil of the round is needed to eject the case and load an new shell a squib is used to fire the failed round and cycle the weapon to clear the weapon and continue firing.

Amazing pictures and videos guys. Russian gatlings have look steampunkish and I find it awesome

Short video and impressive sound of the high RPM of Gsh 23L in SPPU-22 Gunpods on Mi24VM2 (Mi-35M).




Also Mi-24V and P shooting with Gsh 30K and YaKB 12.7mm from gunners cockpit position and on Gun position.

Thanks for the explanation about the pyrotechnic system GarryB.

Where the hell you get such informations from GarryB?
Would be nice to know your sources, i like to collect everything that includes or compliments information of such weaponary.

I was reading a book about cannon ammo and it mentioned a squib charge used in Russian cannons.

Basically it was like a blank charge that when fired burns a hole in the side of a shell inside a chamber of a cannon to ignite the powder charge of a shell that has not fired due to primer failure.

I believe the Mig-29 has about 5 squib charges so after 5 rounds are fired with squibs then that is it till the weapon is reloaded and the squib charges are replaced... but something would need to be seriously wrong to need to use all 5 squibs.

Do you think the armata will be shown in nizhny tagil September 2014?

KomissarBojanchev wrote:Do you think the armata will be shown in nizhny tagil September 2014?

I doubt. The chosen ones see it in 2013, but it was said, that public will see Armata in 2015 parade.

It wont be "publicly" shown until 2015.   

So its gonna be the same boring old machines in tagil next year if we aren't talking about new fire trucks or jeeps  , just the T-90AMs, BMPTs, BMD-4s and the other usual residents over the last 3 years.

Eh, REA 2013 was damn interesting.

Who knows, we might see the T-90AM serial version.

We'll likely get to see components of the new generation vehicles. Active protection systems, remote weapon stations, etc.