[Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

PapaDragon wrote:
This is a screengrab, any chance to get the source video?

Also, Armata just keeps getting more awesome

Big_Gazza wrote:Right top row is the (cancelled) Obj 195 / T-95
No idea what the left 2nd row is....

Cyrus the great wrote:

I'm going to be crowned the captain of asking stupid questions, but I maintain that looking foolish is an integral part of learning. So here it goes:

I  understand that some people have discussed the possibility of incorporating anti-aircraft missiles on the Armata, so could the turret of the T-14 Armata physically incorporate the Verba missile by housing it vertically within the unmanned turret? The space required to accommodate the Verba missile would have to be at least 1.5 meters long. I imagine that the turret could *accommodate* three Verba missiles.  I know that SHORAD would better protect armored columns from aerial attacks, so I'm asking this admittedly stupid question to satisfy my own curiosity.  

Cyrus the great wrote:

I'm going to be crowned the captain of asking stupid questions, but I maintain that looking foolish is an integral part of learning. So here it goes:

I  understand that some people have discussed the possibility of incorporating anti-aircraft missiles on the Armata, so could the turret of the T-14 Armata physically incorporate the Verba missile by housing it vertically within the unmanned turret? The space required to accommodate the Verba missile would have to be at least 1.5 meters long. I imagine that the turret could *accommodate* three Verba missiles.  I know that SHORAD would better protect armored columns from aerial attacks, so I'm asking this admittedly stupid question to satisfy my own curiosity.  

Werewolf wrote:The Problem you would face with trying to integrate a Verba MANPAD system on a plattform like a Tank that is a frontline (ground to ground) orientated vehicle is that it does not have Thermial Imagers made to search for threats in the sky and due that being not aware of any threats from the sky like Attack Helicopters. That would mean you would need an OLS (IRST) which cost and will have no use 99% of the time they are installed, get easily dirty and by that decrease their functionality, use and will affect the amount of budget you will have to buy new tanks or maintain them, since such systems are made of highly costly materials such as saphiric lenses and what not, very costly for a system that is still very inferior compared even to an old Tunguska. It has no economical use.

GarryB wrote:I think you are mostly ignoring the fact that Armata is not a tank.

There will be a version of Armata that has a turret with a 125mm or later 152mm main gun that is used as a tank, but there will be Pantsir-SM and Tunguska and TOR versions and as mentioned above a 57mm armed version used for infantry transport... an IFV... the Tunguska replacement will likely also have 57mm guns as well because in the anti air role a 57mm cannon shell killing air targets to 12km makes it a very potent gun, and with the air search capabilities it will be effective in the role too.

I rather suspect with the data communication and battle management systems all Armatas will carry that a new model Svir or Sokol-1 or improved version of either... perhaps incorporating scramjet propulsion might offer superior performance to any MANPADS through the main gun with net centric data from a range of platforms offering the situational awareness to use them at 10km or beyond.

A standard MBT will not defend itself from aircraft... there will be IFVs and SPAAGs and short range systems armed with SOSNA-R and Morfei and Pantsir and TOR missiles doing that.

Big_Gazza wrote:Additionally, doesn't a Verba need to lock its IR seeker onto a target prior to launch? If so, this suggests that it cannot be launched from VLS.

Big_Gazza wrote:

Werewolf wrote:The Problem you would face with trying to integrate a Verba MANPAD system on a plattform like a Tank that is a frontline (ground to ground) orientated vehicle is that it does not have Thermial Imagers made to search for threats in the sky and due that being not aware of any threats from the sky like Attack Helicopters. That would mean you would need an OLS (IRST) which cost and will have no use 99% of the time they are installed, get easily dirty and by that decrease their functionality, use and will affect the amount of budget you will have to buy new tanks or maintain them, since such systems are made of highly costly materials such as saphiric lenses and what not, very costly for a system that is still very inferior compared even to an old Tunguska. It has no economical use.

Additionally, doesn't a Verba need to lock its IR seeker onto a target prior to launch?  If so, this suggests that it cannot be launched from VLS.

Big_Gazza wrote:

Werewolf wrote:The Problem you would face with trying to integrate a Verba MANPAD system on a plattform like a Tank that is a frontline (ground to ground) orientated vehicle is that it does not have Thermial Imagers made to search for threats in the sky and due that being not aware of any threats from the sky like Attack Helicopters. That would mean you would need an OLS (IRST) which cost and will have no use 99% of the time they are installed, get easily dirty and by that decrease their functionality, use and will affect the amount of budget you will have to buy new tanks or maintain them, since such systems are made of highly costly materials such as saphiric lenses and what not, very costly for a system that is still very inferior compared even to an old Tunguska. It has no economical use.

Additionally, doesn't a Verba need to lock its IR seeker onto a target prior to launch?  If so, this suggests that it cannot be launched from VLS.

higurashihougi wrote:Actually I am more curious about the BMPT version of Armata. It will be similar to what Garry described or it will looks more like the old Terminator ?

OminousSpudd wrote:

higurashihougi wrote:Actually I am more curious about the BMPT version of Armata. It will be similar to what Garry described or it will looks more like the old Terminator ?

I want it to look like the old Terminator or obvious reasons.

Militarov wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

I'm going to be crowned the captain of asking stupid questions, but I maintain that looking foolish is an integral part of learning. So here it goes:

I  understand that some people have discussed the possibility of incorporating anti-aircraft missiles on the Armata, so could the turret of the T-14 Armata physically incorporate the Verba missile by housing it vertically within the unmanned turret? The space required to accommodate the Verba missile would have to be at least 1.5 meters long. I imagine that the turret could *accommodate* three Verba missiles.  I know that SHORAD would better protect armored columns from aerial attacks, so I'm asking this admittedly stupid question to satisfy my own curiosity.  

Even IF it was ever placed on Armata i dont think they would install vertical launch tubes, as it would probably affect its protection, as they would though turret be laying partially in loader. IF it was ever placed on Armata i personally would do it like its on ZSU-23-4MP Biała for an example:





Or like this:

x_54_u43 wrote:

Cyrus the great wrote:

I'm going to be crowned the captain of asking stupid questions, but I maintain that looking foolish is an integral part of learning. So here it goes:

I  understand that some people have discussed the possibility of incorporating anti-aircraft missiles on the Armata, so could the turret of the T-14 Armata physically incorporate the Verba missile by housing it vertically within the unmanned turret? The space required to accommodate the Verba missile would have to be at least 1.5 meters long. I imagine that the turret could *accommodate* three Verba missiles.  I know that SHORAD would better protect armored columns from aerial attacks, so I'm asking this admittedly stupid question to satisfy my own curiosity.  

Any ground to air functionality would be well performed by the future 57mm that might be mounted to the serial T-14 or the dedicated variant of SHORADS that uses the future 57mm.

BTW the 57mm is slated for use with laser guided shells.

Verba would just be a lot of cost with not a lot of functionality outside of shooting down aircraft. Now 57mm, on the other hand, are very, very useful in a variety of roles, from anti-personnel to soft-targets to fuck everything.

Werewolf wrote:The Problem you would face with trying to integrate a Verba MANPAD system on a plattform like a Tank that is a frontline (ground to ground) orientated vehicle is that it does not have Thermial Imagers made to search for threats in the sky and due that being not aware of any threats from the sky like Attack Helicopters. That would mean you would need an OLS (IRST) which cost and will have no use 99% of the time they are installed, get easily dirty and by that decrease their functionality, use and will affect the amount of budget you will have to buy new tanks or maintain them, since such systems are made of highly costly materials such as saphiric lenses and what not, very costly for a system that is still very inferior compared even to an old Tunguska. It has no economical use.

GarryB wrote:I think you are mostly ignoring the fact that Armata is not a tank.

There will be a version of Armata that has a turret with a 125mm or later 152mm main gun that is used as a tank, but there will be Pantsir-SM and Tunguska and TOR versions and as mentioned above a 57mm armed version used for infantry transport... an IFV... the Tunguska replacement will likely also have 57mm guns as well because in the anti air role a 57mm cannon shell killing air targets to 12km makes it a very potent gun, and with the air search capabilities it will be effective in the role too.

I rather suspect with the data communication and battle management systems all Armatas will carry that a new model Svir or Sokol-1 or improved version of either... perhaps incorporating scramjet propulsion might offer superior performance to any MANPADS through the main gun with net centric data from a range of platforms offering the situational awareness to use them at 10km or beyond.

A standard MBT will not defend itself from aircraft... there will be IFVs and SPAAGs and short range systems armed with SOSNA-R and Morfei and Pantsir and TOR missiles doing that.