[Official] Armata Discussion thread #4

on the Alabino range, from closed(limited acces) exposure

2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

New air defense system to be created on Armata platform

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Oleg Sienko: on the basis of "Almaty was" complex air defense can be created

Held in Moscow military-technical forum "Army 2016" did not go unnoticed largest tank manufacturer in the world concern "Uralvagonzavod", which is used outside Moscow exhibition platform to showcase their innovations. Here you can see the latest modernization of the T-90MS, which now offers customers with a remotely controlled machine gun 12.7 mm, and the latest railway platform capacity of more than 70 tons.


About what kind of new products presented at the show, he said in an interview with the head of the editorial profile of RIA Novosti Sergei Safronov CEO of Uralvagonzavod Oleg Siyenko.



Director General of Uralvagonzavod Oleg Siyenko.

- Oleg, tell us what news Uralvagonzavod presented at the forum "Army 2016"?


- For the first time Uralvagonzavod is two combat unit caliber 30 and 57 millimeters. 57 mm cannon stands on a platform of "Barys" production company "Kazakhstan Engineering". 30 mm module - a jeep KAMAZ, which is on display at the exhibition closed. In addition, we put on display combat module 12.7 mm on the BTR-80 platform. Also for the first time at the site showed Uralvagonzavod "Army 2016" T-90MS with remote-controlled 12-mm machine gun mount.


- Remotely manageable by the crew out of the tank or in the tank?


- It is understood that members of the crew run the installation from inside the tank.


In addition, in this exhibition we show 120mm complex on the basis of KAMAZ eight-called "Phlox". Among the new products are also widely represented by units of electrical equipment, such as generators, which are now used for "Typhoon" on tanks T-72, T-90, as well as Arctic power, automatic transmissions for armored vehicles, it is something that today exhibits an increased interest foreign buyer.


These units may be placed on the T-72 tanks, which produced most of the world (all produced more than 30 thousand - Ed.), And which need to be modernized, as well as T-90 tanks of some foreign armies, in which the processes of modernization are now located at art weaponry.


- Plan for the modernization of tanks T-72 to the level of the T-72B3 is made in accordance with contractual obligations?


- While in the Russian army, not all T-72 tanks brought to the level of the T-72B3. Now we are discussing with the Ministry of Defence of future contracts in this area. Now we need to determine the amount of the remaining T-72 tanks, which the ministry wants to upgrade to this level. But we are going to offer them an improved upgrade package, which includes in particular a new generator.


- That is, it will be a further modernization of the T-72?


- Let's just say it will be an improved T-72B3.


- What amount of tanks T-72B3 has modernized the Russian army?


- About a thousand.


- You can tell that the T-72B3 - it's almost a tank T-90?


- No, this is absolutely not comparable machines.


- What are the financial performance of your company on the results of eight months of this year?


- Revenues for the first eight months of this year compared to the same periods in 2015 was 56 billion rubles, of which 46 billion rubles accounted for by exports, which, in turn, has increased fourfold. Net profit of the Group amounted to about 6.5 billion rubles.


- Due to what?


- We have quadrupled the export of our products. And we started to increase the production of civilian goods, ie rail cars. We collect a lot of orders, and are now discussing with the companies long-term five-year contracts before the end of the year.


By the way, in this exhibition we introduced railway platform for machinery lifting capacity of 70 tons. This is a new platform with a ramp for loading equipment without special devices in the field.


- Does the "Almaty was" new ammunition?


- Work in this direction is, in it, we act as consultants. But as long as we use for fire testing to confirm the terms of reference, and we, by the way, it can confirm the old shell. We hope that in the course of the year our colleagues create a new shell.


By the way, we are the initiative to set up a 125-mm remote-subversion ammunition. We never have done, but did. Got OCD, development, product testing and adoption. And even today already offer it for export.


- That is, it turns out that the new ammunition for "Almaty was" still there?


- It is, but we need new high-explosive bombs and armor-piercing sub-caliber armor-piercing to fight heavy machinery


- It is known that the first contract for 100 tanks "Armata" has already been signed and delivery has already begun. Do you expect in the near future conclusion of a new contract?


- Indeed, we confirm that the deliveries began. In total, we have to put the Russian army 2,3 thousand of these tanks. As for the new contract, everything the customer specifies, we only prepare the production site.


- Negotiations with the Ministry of Defense on this matter are?


- All the talks have already been held, is now the most important thing is to have the customer money.


- The first 20 cars that took part in the Victory Day parade, have already arrived in the Russian army?


- As long as they are still being tested, we are continuing to test the program, and quite successfully.


- On the platform, "Armata" can be developed about 28 new types of military equipment. It is already known about the development of the howitzer "Coalition", a heavy infantry fighting vehicles, Bram. What else is on the way?


- We offered to the concept of a "Armata" platform, in particular, air defense systems, including "Thor", "Buk". We can offer to create a new tank support combat vehicle "Terminator", but with a gun, 57 mm instead of 30 mm.

Source (in russian, translated to english with Google Translator):
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2016/09/blog-post_3.html

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In my opinion, the Tor and Buk SAM systems would look cool on an Armata chassis, and the Pantsir or the Sosna systems would perfectly fit onto a Kurganets or maybe a Boomerang chassis.

KoTeMoRe wrote:2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

You could definitely tell that's a different gun than the one installed on previous T-14's....the first thing that came to mind was "Ribbed for her pleasure."

BTW the photos would be so much better without the watermarks.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

You could definitely tell that's a different gun than the one installed on previous T-14's....the first thing that came to mind was "Ribbed for her pleasure."

BTW the photos would be so much better without the watermarks.

What's the range on that gun?

AlfaT8 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

You could definitely tell that's a different gun than the one installed on previous T-14's....the first thing that came to mind was "Ribbed for her pleasure."

BTW the photos would be so much better without the watermarks.

What's the range on that gun?

"enough"

Depends on the rounds.

Zivo wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

You could definitely tell that's a different gun than the one installed on previous T-14's....the first thing that came to mind was "Ribbed for her pleasure."

BTW the photos would be so much better without the watermarks.

What's the range on that gun?

"enough"

Depends on the rounds.

It's a state secret for now, however from export T-90MS numbers we can determine it to be at least 2.7km's range for sabots, 5km's range for GLATGM's, and 12km's for HE-Frag...I wouldn't be shocked if it was 3-4km's for sabots, 8km's for GLATGM's, and 14-16km's for HE-Frag.

For new ammo, I would like to see them develop UAV shells, thermobaric shells (which are superior to HE-Frag in enclosed spaces), and MANPAD shells for CAS aircraft.

BTW lets discuss something that real hasn't been discussed, which is the communications between MBT's while tracking targets. While were still discussing munitions, much has been said about laser-beam riding GLATGM's and their high-resistance towards ECM. Let's say for arguments sake that the resistance wasn't that high...the electro-optical auto-tracking feature, and the short range (6km) C4I between other T-14 MBT Armata's could make an OPFOR's PPS (passive protection system) nearly ineffective. Let's say a OPFOR's MBT manages to successfully dazzle one T-14's GLATGM mid-flight. Theoretically speaking if you have 3 or 4 additional T-14 MBT's spaced 1km away from the T-14 that's enraged in combat, and all of them are communicating with each other and auto-tracking the same target, the T-14 that's engaging in combat could still successfully score a hit on the OPFOR's armor by the auto-tracking information being communicated by the 3 to 4 other T-14's. It would be extremely difficult for the OPFOR's MBT's PPS to suppress the tracking capabilities of all the T-14's communicating with each other.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Zivo wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

You could definitely tell that's a different gun than the one installed on previous T-14's....the first thing that came to mind was "Ribbed for her pleasure."

BTW the photos would be so much better without the watermarks.

What's the range on that gun?

"enough"

Depends on the rounds.

It's a state secret for now, however from export T-90MS numbers we can determine it to be at least 2.7km's range for sabots, 5km's range for GLATGM's, and 12km's for HE-Frag...I wouldn't be shocked if it was 3-4km's for sabots, 8km's for GLATGM's, and 14-16km's for HE-Frag.

For new ammo, I would like to see them develop UAV shells, thermobaric shells (which are superior to HE-Frag in enclosed spaces), and MANPAD shells for CAS aircraft.

BTW lets discuss something that real hasn't been discussed, which is the communications between MBT's while tracking targets. While were still discussing munitions, much has been said about laser-beam riding GLATGM's and their high-resistance towards ECM. Let's say for arguments sake that the resistance wasn't that high...the electro-optical auto-tracking feature, and the short range (6km) C4I between other T-14 MBT Armata's could make an OPFOR's PPS (passive protection system) nearly ineffective. Let's say a OPFOR's MBT manages to successfully dazzle one T-14's GLATGM mid-flight. Theoretically speaking if you have 3 or 4 additional T-14 MBT's spaced 1km away from the T-14 that's enraged in combat, and all of them are communicating with each other and auto-tracking the same target, the T-14 that's engaging in combat could still successfully score a hit on the OPFOR's armor by the auto-tracking information being communicated by the 3 to 4 other T-14's. It would be extremely difficult for the OPFOR's MBT's PPS to suppress the tracking capabilities of all the T-14's communicating with each other.

The T-14's new gun launched ATGM is going to be based on the Sokol-1 ATGM. Sokol uses IR image seeking for LOS engagements with a top attack profile able to engage out to 5km, and semi active laser homing for non IR targets like structures, with a range of 12km.

This dual seeker guidance allows for a lot of redundancy, and the ability to hand off targets to other T-14's.

Can anyone tell me the difference between the gun on these three photos and the one on previous T-14s?
Thanks...

xeno wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between the gun on these three photos and the one on previous T-14s?
Thanks...

From pictures it looks like 2 caliber lengths have been added.

Russia's T-14 Armata tank to get new ammunition

http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/09/russias-t-14-armata-tank-to-get-new-ammunition/

KoTeMoRe wrote:

xeno wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between the gun on these three photos and the one on previous T-14s?
Thanks...

From pictures it looks like 2 caliber lengths have been added.

I measured with Photoshop, yes the new gun is about 190mm longer than the old one.
It is strange that nobody discussed this very important modification on Otvaga2004 forum which is the best Russian tank forum...

xeno wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

xeno wrote:Can anyone tell me the difference between the gun on these three photos and the one on previous T-14s?
Thanks...

From pictures it looks like 2 caliber lengths have been added.

I measured with Photoshop, yes the new gun is about 190mm longer than the old one.
It is strange that nobody discussed this very important modification on Otvaga2004 forum which is the best Russian tank forum...

Because there not paranoïd enough. No more commies in charge, that's what you get

There are 4 different articles from Sputnik News abut the Armata platform

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Russia's T-14 Armata Battle Tank Tests to Conclude in 2017

State tests of Russia’s T-14 Armata main battle tanks will wrap up next year, the Russian Defense Ministry said Friday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – On Tuesday, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said that the ministry and the Russian Uralvagonzavod machine industry company signed a contract for the supply of over 100 T-14 Armata tanks to the Russian army.

"State tests will be completed next year, they will be put into service afterward," Alexander Shevchenko, head of the ministry’s main vehicles and armor department, told RIA Novosti.

Shevchenko noted that preliminary tests are scheduled to be finalized this year.

The Russian Defense Ministry unveiled its next-generation Armata tank at the May 9 Victory Day military parade in Moscow in 2015.

The tank's turret is unmanned and is operated by the crew located in an armored capsule at the front of the vehicle. Its main armament includes a 125-mm smoothbore cannon and a 7.62-mm remote-control machine gun.

Five-percent cuts in state defense orders will not affect Russia’s advanced combat vehicles built on the Armata platform, the Russian Defense Ministry’s chief of main vehicles and armor department told Sputnik on Friday.

"The main armored vehicle department is primarily financed by long-term research and development programs. Perhaps the reduction in funding will affect something else, but not in the development of weapons and military equipment," Shevchenko said.

Shevchenko noted that work on the Armata, along with the Kurganets and Bumerang armored personnel carriers, are prioritized because they form the "basis for the future."

Source: https://sputniknews.com/military/20160909/1045121852/t14-armata-tests-2017.html

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Great

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Unmanned Robotic Armata Tank to Be Developed in 2018 - Russian Defense Ministry

An unmanned robotic version of Russia’s advanced T-14 Armata battle tank will be created in 2018, the Russian Defense Ministry’s chief of armor and vehicle department told Sputnik on Friday.

KUBINKA (Moscow) (Sputnik) – Lt. Gen. Alexander Shevchenko pointed out that difficulties remain in solving the problems of artificial vision and interaction with the environment. "Work has been set for two years, the robotic Armata could be created in that period. This vehicle already has the capacities, only the small issues remain to be solved," Shevchenko said.

The Russian Defense Ministry unveiled its next-generation Armata tank at the May 9 Victory Day military parade in Moscow in 2015. The tank's turret is unmanned and is operated by the crew located in an armored capsule at the front of the vehicle. Its main armament includes a 125-mm smoothbore cannon and a 7.62-mm remote-control machine gun.

On Tuesday, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said that the ministry and the Russian Uralvagonzavod machine industry company signed a contract for the supply of over 100 T-14 Armata tanks to the Russian army

Source: https://sputniknews.com/military/20160909/1045123818/unmanned-robotic-armata.html

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Wow!    

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Take Cover! Russian Armata Tank Gets New High-Tech Ammo Type

Russian engineers have developed a new type of munition for the T-14 Armata main battle tank.

The new "remotely-detonated" 125mm shell was designed and produced by Uralvagonzavod, the largest tank manufacturer in the world.

Oleg Sienko, the corporation's CEO, has announced the development at the Army-2016 international military expo that launched in Moscow on September 6, according to RIA Novosti.

"We produced this 125mm remotely-detonated munition acting on our own initiative. We've never done anything like that before, until now. We’ve already completed the development, production and testing stages, and it has already entered service. And now we also offer it for export," Sienko said.

The T-14 Armata is a state-of-the-art main battle tank based of the Armata Universal Combat Platform, which represents the new generation of Russian tanks. It was first presented to the public during the Victory Day Parade in Moscow on May 9, 2015, prompting the militaries of several Western powers to struggle to develop weapons capable of countering it.

Source: https://sputniknews.com/military/20160908/1045100493/armata-new-shell-type.html

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A the moment, Armata has the "Vacuum-1" APDS-FS (Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot (Fin Stabilized) round, the "Telnik" remote controlled HEAT-FS (High Explosive Anti-Tank (Fin Stabilized) round and the 3UBK21 "Sprinter" GLATGM (Gun-Launched Anti-Tank Guided Missile) in its inventory. Maybe they are talking about "Telnik".

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Russia MoD to Receive Three Armata-Platform Combat Vehicles in 2017

The Russian Defense Ministry will put into service three combat vehicles built on the basis of the country’s advanced Armata platform, including tanks, infantry fighting and repair vehicles, the Russian Defense Ministry told Sputnik on Friday.

KUBINKA (Sputnik) – Alexander Shevchenko, head of the ministry’s main vehicles and armor department, said experimental and design work on the three Armata-platform vehicles was continuing.

"The unique character of this work is that more than one sample in the immediate family developed on a single platform is brought into service. If there are positive results from tests in 2017, then the three models will be accepted immediately," Shevchenko said.

The Armata is a Russian prototype of a heavy tracked vehicle platform that will be used as a basis for the construction of a next-generation main battle tank and a range of other combat vehicles.

Source: https://sputniknews.com/military/20160909/1045122069/russia-armata-platform.html

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I have read somewhere that they will purchase 60 T-14 MBTs, 30 BMP(T)-15 Heavy IFVs and 10 BREM(T)-16 Armored Recovery Vehicles as part of this first (100 vehicles) contract.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Zivo wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

You could definitely tell that's a different gun than the one installed on previous T-14's....the first thing that came to mind was "Ribbed for her pleasure."

BTW the photos would be so much better without the watermarks.

What's the range on that gun?

"enough"

Depends on the rounds.

It's a state secret for now, however from export T-90MS numbers we can determine it to be at least 2.7km's range for sabots, 5km's range for GLATGM's, and 12km's for HE-Frag...I wouldn't be shocked if it was 3-4km's for sabots, 8km's for GLATGM's, and 14-16km's for HE-Frag.

For new ammo, I would like to see them develop UAV shells, thermobaric shells (which are superior to HE-Frag in enclosed spaces), and MANPAD shells for CAS aircraft.

BTW lets discuss something that real hasn't been discussed, which is the communications between MBT's while tracking targets. While were still discussing munitions, much has been said about laser-beam riding GLATGM's and their high-resistance towards ECM. Let's say for arguments sake that the resistance wasn't that high...the electro-optical auto-tracking feature, and the short range (6km) C4I between other T-14 MBT Armata's could make an OPFOR's PPS (passive protection system) nearly ineffective. Let's say a OPFOR's MBT manages to successfully dazzle one T-14's GLATGM mid-flight. Theoretically speaking if you have 3 or 4 additional T-14 MBT's spaced 1km away from the T-14 that's enraged in combat, and all of them are communicating with each other and auto-tracking the same target, the T-14 that's engaging in combat could still successfully score a hit on the OPFOR's armor by the auto-tracking information being communicated by the 3 to 4 other T-14's. It would be extremely difficult for the OPFOR's MBT's PPS to suppress the tracking capabilities of all the T-14's communicating with each other.

Would be useful if the engagement time permits it. NATO forces have advanced mechanized units, your tanks won't have time to be passing information like that fast enough. For the T-14 it'd be as easy as launching AP and HEAT rounds. GLATGMs are good for engaging targets if the battlefield condition permits it. Communication between tanks would most likely in high intense situations be left to: spotting, and call outs. If the terrain permits a shot out to 3+ kilometers, it is of course better to use GLATGMs.

VladimirSahin wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Zivo wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:2A82M gun? Holy fuck...

You could definitely tell that's a different gun than the one installed on previous T-14's....the first thing that came to mind was "Ribbed for her pleasure."

BTW the photos would be so much better without the watermarks.

What's the range on that gun?

"enough"

Depends on the rounds.

It's a state secret for now, however from export T-90MS numbers we can determine it to be at least 2.7km's range for sabots, 5km's range for GLATGM's, and 12km's for HE-Frag...I wouldn't be shocked if it was 3-4km's for sabots, 8km's for GLATGM's, and 14-16km's for HE-Frag.

For new ammo, I would like to see them develop UAV shells, thermobaric shells (which are superior to HE-Frag in enclosed spaces), and MANPAD shells for CAS aircraft.

BTW lets discuss something that real hasn't been discussed, which is the communications between MBT's while tracking targets. While were still discussing munitions, much has been said about laser-beam riding GLATGM's and their high-resistance towards ECM. Let's say for arguments sake that the resistance wasn't that high...the electro-optical auto-tracking feature, and the short range (6km) C4I between other T-14 MBT Armata's could make an OPFOR's PPS (passive protection system) nearly ineffective. Let's say a OPFOR's MBT manages to successfully dazzle one T-14's GLATGM mid-flight. Theoretically speaking if you have 3 or 4 additional T-14 MBT's spaced 1km away from the T-14 that's enraged in combat, and all of them are communicating with each other and auto-tracking the same target, the T-14 that's engaging in combat could still successfully score a hit on the OPFOR's armor by the auto-tracking information being communicated by the 3 to 4 other T-14's. It would be extremely difficult for the OPFOR's MBT's PPS to suppress the tracking capabilities of all the T-14's communicating with each other.

Would be useful if the engagement time permits it. NATO forces have advanced mechanized units, your tanks won't have time to be passing information like that fast enough. For the T-14 it'd be as easy as launching AP and HEAT rounds. GLATGMs are good for engaging targets if the battlefield condition permits it. Communication between tanks would most likely in high intense situations be left to: spotting, and call outs. If the terrain permits a shot out to 3+ kilometers, it is of course better to use GLATGMs.

To be honest the last time a major MBT battle commenced with MBT's of the same generation, was the Iran-Iraq war.

First 100 T-14 ordered appear to include the ones already delivered for testing. The first production series of ~70 don't arrive until 2019. They will go to the 1ST Guards Tank Army.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2119286.html

Benya wrote:A the moment, Armata has the "Vacuum-1" APDS-FS (Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot (Fin Stabilized) round, the "Telnik" remote controlled HEAT-FS (High Explosive Anti-Tank (Fin Stabilized) round and the 3UBK21 "Sprinter" GLATGM (Gun-Launched Anti-Tank Guided Missile) in its inventory. Maybe they are talking about "Telnik".

From what I understand -- Vacuum is basically unrelated to Armata. It was an early-00's projectile that might have been revived for Armata, but it is likely now dead. It seems like a new APFSDS round will be coming sometime next year in its place, which makes sense, as apparently Vacuum was never going to be the round developed for the 2A82-1M.

Mike E wrote:

Benya wrote:A the moment, Armata has the "Vacuum-1" APDS-FS (Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot (Fin Stabilized) round, the "Telnik" remote controlled HEAT-FS (High Explosive Anti-Tank (Fin Stabilized) round and the 3UBK21 "Sprinter" GLATGM (Gun-Launched Anti-Tank Guided Missile) in its inventory. Maybe they are talking about "Telnik".

From what I understand -- Vacuum is basically unrelated to Armata. It was an early-00's projectile that might have been revived for Armata, but it is likely now dead. It seems like a new APFSDS round will be coming sometime next year in its place, which makes sense, as apparently Vacuum was never going to be the round developed for the 2A82-1M.

It's grifel-1

Grifel is 152 mm, planned for the Object-195's 2A83 gun.

So that's a no. And like the Vacuum, it is too old to be this new development.

I would not be totally surprised if the T-14 takes the 152mm caliber since the begin.

Moving to such a large calibre has to be justified... in other words the 125mm must not be able to do the job to require the adoption of the 152mm weapon.

And of course if that is the case then what you are saying is the vast majority of your tanks are not up to the job.

It is cheaper and easier to use a smaller calibre with upgraded ammo than to change to a larger calibre.

Obviously if enemy vehicles can't be penetrated by 125mm then it would need to be replaced ASAP.

A real advantage of the 152mm calibre guns is greatly increased internal volume to allow more complex guided shells and perhaps even gun launched UAVs, but the penalty is higher recoil and reduce ammo capacity.

This is far from being the alone reason.

Another important reason is to take a military lead, to take advantage from the rest of rivals.

If you take the change to 152mm like to say that the rest of Russian tanks can not do the job, neither the rest of the tanks of the world would be able to do the job. Despite to be not right because the 125mm tanks are useful, it obviously shows how the T-14 would become leader worlwide with a 152mm gun.

Mike E wrote:Grifel is 152 mm, planned for the Object-195's 2A83 gun.

So that's a no. And like the Vacuum, it is too old to be this new development.

Grifel 1 and 2 was rounds made for soviet obj 299 made by Kirov plant and his 152mm gun in late 80s.

Grifel 1 was tungsteen rond wiht penetration of 1000mm RHA and grifel 2 was uranium round with penetration more then 1200mm of RHA...

Armata is very similar to this project 299 and i think that armata is just modernized 299 project with some changes made on T-14. T-15 is almost identical like obj 299 IFV...