New Airborne SP Artilliery Systems

GarryB wrote:

Lots of words to say nothing, GarryB. If you think that to avoid if possible to enter inside the range of the weapons of the adversary is to be paper focused you are full wrong. This is a basic rule to follow for every unit and soldier on the battlefield.

After all you said, the 2S41 keeps the same weaknesses.

Perhaps if you read what I said and tried to understand what I was trying to say there would be a point in discussing this with you.

Please list an armoured vehicle in current VDV service that carries a weapon that out ranges this 6km ranged gun and would therefore be safe from enemy ATGMs.

The M1A2 Abrams can hit targets at 10km with HE shells so it cannot possibly have been destroyed in combat with Konkurs... which has a range of about 4km... which I am sure you will notice is less than the 6km range of this 82mm calibre weapon.

On a real battlefield there are weapons firing all the time... the launch of an ATGM from more than 2km away is actually rather difficult to notice... even more so inside an armoured vehicle.

Can you tell me how a 120mm gun with a range of 13km will make the crew of a vehicle safe from ATGMs when the main guns of tanks can hit point targets out to 10km or more with HE shells and we have seen that no ground vehicle is safe from ATGMs?

2S9.

With the application of the most modern Rocket Assisted Projectile technologies, the 120mm mortars can reach 17.5 Km of range, like the 2S34 does and like the 2S42 will do (both with the 2A80 weapon). The application of the same technologies to the 125mm caliber would make this caliber outranges the 120mm caliber.

The 120mm caliber would be in disaddvantage vs the 125mm caliber in the long term, but do not pretend to say that it is the same the range of the 2S42 and the 2S41 of 82mm. You should know that in a war like the war in Syria the 2S42 would be almost untouchable using its range, only a few BM-21, 2S1, D-30 and M-46 in the hands of the rebels would be able to afford its range. The 2S41 instead, would be in constant danger every time it has to fire, being significantly less powerful. This is the difference between both in the real world.

Russian airborne troops(VDV) to trail 2S24 Lotos in 2019.

Lotos is a 120mm SP mortar system on modified BMD-4M chass.



http://rostec.ru/news/4521284

To ignore the benefit of longer range when it is possible to take advantage of it makes not sense. Not always is used, but it is a good advantage.

If you check this table, you will see the explatantion to the 13 Km range and to the 17.5 Km range for the 2A80 weapon of the 2S34 and the 2S42:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%D0%A11#.D0.A1.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B8.D0.B9.D0.BD.D0.BE.D0.B5_.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.B8.D0.B7.D0.B2.D0.BE.D0.B4.D1.81.D1.82.D0.B2.D0.BE

If you want to see the origin of the data you can check the references.

Князев М. 2С1 «Гвоздика» // Русские танки. — Киев: Юнивест принт, 2011. — Вып. 32. — С. 4—7. — ISSN 2073-543X

Do not forget that the weapon of the 2S34 is different of the weapon of the 2S9 and 2S23.

The information GarryB was asking for is included in this link of the Post 54:

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%D0%A11#.D0.A1.D0.B5.D1.80.D0.B8.D0.B9.D0.BD.D0.BE.D0.B5_.D0.BF.D1.80.D0.BE.D0.B8.D0.B7.D0.B2.D0.BE.D0.B4.D1.81.D1.82.D0.B2.D0.BE

according to the link the data comes from the following reference included in the Post 56:

Князев М. 2С1 «Гвоздика» // Русские танки. — Киев: Юнивест принт, 2011. — Вып. 32. — С. 4—7. — ISSN 2073-543X

The weapons of the 2S42 and the 2S34 are different of the weapons of the 2S9 and 2S23. It is logical that the 2S9 and 2S23 have the same data of range, but this data be different of the data of the 2S34 and 2S42.

The 2S42 Lotos seems a very interesting weapon, and I hope the tests begin fast. I do not expect problems with the tests, taking into account that the weapon has been proved and accepted before and this modern platform too.

Latest artillery system for Russia’s Airborne Force to enter final trials in 2019

The Lotos gun will replace the Nona 120mm system in the artillery units when it is accepted for service

MOSCOW, December 17. /TASS/. The advanced Lotos artillery system and the Zavet-D fire control vehicle will undergo trials in 2019, after which they will be accepted for service in Russia’s Airborne Force, the Defense Ministry reported on Monday.

"In 2019, the 2S42 Lotos 120mm self-propelled artillery gun and the Zavet-D artillery fire control vehicle will enter final state trials before they are accepted as the armament of the Airborne Force," the ministry said in a statement.

As the Defense Ministry noted, the promising Lotos gun will replace the Nona 120mm system in the artillery units of the Airborne Force when it is accepted for service.

Both systems will feature the capability of their transportation by military transport aircraft and their air-dropping by parachutes.

The Lotos is the follow-up and the replacement of the Zauralets project that was designed to create a new self-propelled artillery gun for the Airborne Force.

The Lotos will feature the 120mm gun while its artillery round will be heavily modernized and will be slightly less powerful than the shell from the 152mm gun.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/1036459

"Lotos" on Red Square: on the Victory Parade will show a gun-mortar

For airborne created the latest artillery system

On May 9, 2019, 120-mm self-propelled artillery guns (SAO) 2С42 “Lotos” will pass for the first time on Red Square. This is the newest weapon system. It can fire from closed positions, like an ordinary howitzer, and destroy point targets with hinged fire, like a mortar. Also, “Lotus” is able to knock out firing points and enemy fortifications with direct fire. The newest SAO is not easy to detect on the battlefield, as it is made with elements of the technology of low electronic noticeability "stealth". "Lotus" is equipped with a digital fire control system.

As told to Izvestia, several sources in the Ministry of Defense and the military-industrial complex, at the Victory Parade, "Lotos" will be held as part of a column of armored vehicles of the Airborne Forces. Also in 2019, will begin testing the latest artillery system. It is planned that Lotos will replace the entire line of outdated self-propelled airborne units and marines - 2S9 "Nona-S", 2S9-1 "Suryristka" and 2S9-11M "Nona-SM".

The developer of this combat vehicle is the Central Research Institute of Precision Machine Building JSC (TsNIItochmash JSC). The Institute "Izvestia" confirmed that the production facilities of the enterprise is assembled and debugged a prototype of the CJSC "Lotos". During its development, a complex of extraordinary design solutions was implemented, which made it possible to increase ergonomics, survivability, as well as combat and driving performance of the machine. In addition, “Lotus” for the first time in the practice of domestic engineering has been designed on the principle of “golden section”, due to which the machine has received not only optimal weight and size characteristics, but also a graceful silhouette.

The newest artillery system uses a tracked undercarriage self-propelled anti-tank gun 2S25 "Sprut-SD". Due to this, the machine immediately after landing from an aircraft can overcome even heavily wetlands and easily get to the specified positions. A powerful engine allows it to reach speeds of up to 70 km / h, the range of the course is 500 km. The SAO is able to independently swim at a speed of 10 km / h with an excitement of up to three points. The caliber of the main gun remained classic - 120 mm, while the self-propelled gun shot was seriously upgraded. The maximum firing range - 13 km.


Externally, the car differs from its predecessors angular forms. This layout was not chosen randomly. It protects the "Lotos" from radars installed on aircraft, helicopters and UAVs. The body of the self-propelled gun is made of steel and special aluminum alloys. Its strength provides all-round protection to the crew, consisting of four people, from the enemy’s small arms.

The machine is equipped with an automated tower fighting compartment. The fire control system has been improved - it has become completely digital. In real-time, it automatically calculates the settings for firing and the necessary amount of ammunition to hit the target. The servicemen can only press a button, then the system will do everything itself.

Today, the Airborne Forces are in dire need of modern artillery systems, which are often the only means to accomplish a combat mission, told Valery Yuriev, chairman of the executive committee of the Union of Russian Paratroopers, to Izvestia.

“The main requirement for all artillery systems for the airborne forces is air mobility,” Valery Yuriev explained. - They need to be transferred in the shortest possible time by air and delivered to the battlefield, better by landing in the air. Therefore, these installations make the most compact. Previously, due to the size limit, it was necessary to look for compromises, which was reflected in the technical characteristics of the weapons. With the development of new technologies, it became possible to make landing artillery systems long-range, more accurate and less visible for reconnaissance assets. These "little things" are very important when you fight at a great distance from your troops and every shell counts.

https://iz.ru/823474/aleksei-ramm-aleksandr-kruglov/lotos-na-krasnoi-ploshchadi-na-parade-pobedy-pokazhut-pushku-minomet

TSNIITOCHMASH for the first time showed the appearance of the newest self-propelled artillery gun "Lotus"

The main weapon of the "Lotus" will be a gun of 120 mm caliber

MOSCOW, January 2. / TASS /. TSNIITOCHMASH (part of Rostec State Corporation) for the first time published a photo of a new self-propelled artillery gun (CAO) Lotus, the exact appearance of which had not been demonstrated before. A photograph of the CAO for the Airborne Forces was published on Wednesday in the enterprise’s calendar for 2019 on the TsNIITOCHMASH page on Instagram.




"Each developer and designer sees the image of his product in advance. A lotus flower has become a kind of inspiration for us. Despite external fragility, it grows in difficult conditions. This is the perfect combination of beauty, grace and invincibility," says the creation of the Lotus in the calendar. It also notes that the design was applied the principle of "golden section".

The project "Lotos" is the development and replacement of the project "Zauralets" in which it was supposed to create a new self-propelled artillery gun for the Airborne Forces with the aim of increasing the fire and maneuvering capabilities of the amphibious units. The main weapon of the "Lotus" will be a gun of 120 mm caliber.

“At present, a prototype of the CJSC Lotos is assembled and debugged at the production facilities of TsNIITOCHMASH JSC,” the company’s press service reported. also fighting and driving performance.

The car can be transported by military transport aircraft and parachuted. Earlier in the Russian military, it was noted that the promising Lotos weapon, when commissioned, will replace the 120 mm Nona gun in the artillery units of the Airborne Forces.

In September 2017, Dmitry Semizorov, then General Director of TsNIITOCHMASH, told TASS that the Lotos self-propelled artillery gun would pass state tests in 2019, and immediately with the new Zavet-D control vehicle. According to him, the military set the task to start mass production of a new weapon in 2020.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5971513

Bigger picture

Why does the west still use recon satellites? Just send a guy to Moscow to buy the newest calendar.

Or an 82mm gun-mortar. Like the 120mm systems of the 2S9/2S23/2S31.

GarryB wrote:Interesting looking vehicle... I wonder what sort of 82mm mortar it uses... it must use a breach loading mechanism... I wonder if it is an automatic mortar related to the Vasilek design... that used a four round clip.

Perhaps it is dual feed linkless belt system that allows two types of ammo to be used at the flick of a switch... looks very mobile and that RWS with the 12.7mm HMG should be a useful defensive weapon.

It's definitely not Vasilek, as it's rate of fire is set just to 12 rounds/min, and maximum ammo storage of 40 rounds, and I think it focuses primarily on accuracy because it lacks both the fire rate and the ammo capacity (to justify the fire-rate) to be a Vasilek based design. Also the focus is on an amphibious air-droppable vehicle for the VDV, so weight is also a factor. A much larger vehicle with a larger ammo capacity could be Vasilek based, it would need at least a 400-600 round capacity.

The first photo of the newest amphibious self-propelled 82 mm mortar 2S41 "Drok"



Self-propelled mortar "Drok" is designed to support airborne assault units of the Airborne Forces. It was developed in the walls of the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" (Nizhny Novgorod) and is created as part of the experimental design work "Sketch".

The armament of the fourteen-ton machine makes it possible to hit targets at a distance of 6000 m. At the same time, the minimum firing range is only 100 m. The rate of fire reaches 12 rounds per minute. Ammunition includes 40 min. The crew consists of 4 fighters who can control the fire without leaving the car, which greatly increases the mobility and survivability of the complex.

The combat module is installed on the armored car chassis "Typhoon Airborne" (K-4386 "Wolverine" - approx.). Also, to combat ground and air targets, a remote-controlled machine-gun module was installed. Self-propelled mortar equipped with a complex of optical-electronic countermeasures.

According to the information support group of the Airborne Forces of the Russian Ministry of Defense, in 2019, this mortar system will be tested. After that, it will be adopted by the Airborne Forces.

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/116207/

Advanced artillery system for Russian paratroopers to enter state trials in 2019

More:
http://tass.com/defense/1046888

The appearance of the A-100 in the sky over Moscow this year can be compensated for by the absence of the assault assault self-propelled artillery “Lotus” at the Victory parade, which was planned to appear earlier. “Lotos” will be shown to Muscovites and guests of the capital in a year - on the 75th anniversary of the Victory.

From here
https://iz.ru/863782/aleksei-ramm-aleksei-kozachenko-bogdan-stepovoi/premer-na-dne-pobedy-nad-moskvoi-proletit-samolet-100

Prospective self-propelled gun "Lotus" for the first time show on the "Army-2019"

https://ria.ru/20190415/1552716194.html

Self-propelled gun for the Airborne Forces "Lotos" will take part in the Victory Parade in 2020

"In 2019, we will start factory testing of this machine, and in 2020, Lotos will participate in the Victory Parade on Red Square," said Bakov in an interview with the Klimovsky gunsmith corporate publication.

https://ria.ru/20190415/1552715064.html

2019 factory tests, 2020 state tests, 2021 troops? Naah

Edit: I see they planning state tests this year, that would be great! Doubt

Serial production of the latest self-propelled artorudiya "Lotus" will begin in 2020

The design features of the instrument are classified, noted in Rostec

Serial production of the latest self-propelled artorudiya "Lotus" will begin in 2020
The design features of the instrument are classified, noted in Rostec

"Perspective 120-mm CAO 2S42 Lotos" is intended to replace the self-propelled gun [2S9] "Nona-S" in the units of the Airborne Forces [VDV] and Marine Corps [MP]. The design features of the machine are classified. The serial production is scheduled to begin in 2020 "- says in infographics.

Rostec also published a number of tactical and technical characteristics of the new system. In particular, its maximum firing range reaches 13 km, and the aimed rate of fire is six to eight shots per minute. The mass of the SAO is 18 tons; it is capable of developing a maximum speed of up to 70 km / h. "It is allowed both the transportation of" Lotus "by military transport aviation and the landing by parachute method", - noted in infographics.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6359322

Official Rostec infographic but the numbers look exportish

Nice pics from Vitaly.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

GarryB wrote:Interesting looking vehicle... I wonder what sort of 82mm mortar it uses... it must use a breach loading mechanism... I wonder if it is an automatic mortar related to the Vasilek design... that used a four round clip.

Perhaps it is dual feed linkless belt system that allows two types of ammo to be used at the flick of a switch... looks very mobile and that RWS with the 12.7mm HMG should be a useful defensive weapon.

It's definitely not Vasilek, as it's rate of fire is set just to 12 rounds/min, and maximum ammo storage of 40 rounds, and I think it focuses primarily on accuracy because it lacks both the fire rate and the ammo capacity (to justify the fire-rate) to be a Vasilek based design. Also the focus is on an amphibious air-droppable vehicle for the VDV, so weight is also a factor. A much larger vehicle with a larger ammo capacity could be Vasilek based, it would need at least a 400-600 round capacity.

The first photo of the newest amphibious self-propelled 82 mm mortar 2S41 "Drok"



Self-propelled mortar "Drok" is designed to support airborne assault units of the Airborne Forces. It was developed in the walls of the Central Research Institute "Burevestnik" (Nizhny Novgorod) and is created as part of the experimental design work "Sketch".

The armament of the fourteen-ton machine makes it possible to hit targets at a distance of 6000 m. At the same time, the minimum firing range is only 100 m. The rate of fire reaches 12 rounds per minute. Ammunition includes 40 min. The crew consists of 4 fighters who can control the fire without leaving the car, which greatly increases the mobility and survivability of the complex.

The combat module is installed on the armored car chassis "Typhoon Airborne" (K-4386 "Wolverine" - approx.). Also, to combat ground and air targets, a remote-controlled machine-gun module was installed. Self-propelled mortar equipped with a complex of optical-electronic countermeasures.

According to the information support group of the Airborne Forces of the Russian Ministry of Defense, in 2019, this mortar system will be tested. After that, it will be adopted by the Airborne Forces.

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/116207/

seems better range than the normal 82mm mortar, but at least with this type of setup the mortar system can be used in the direct fire role as well and be able to use the 82mm anti armour rounds (that vasilek used) i think they had around 100mm penetration against RHA useful against light armour.