VVS Russian Air Force: News #1

The Mig-35 could probably go into production in 2014 and they will probably buy about 50 or 70 in total, and that would be good for Mig as they would get production experience, and be able to test new stuff.

I really don't think less than 100 Mig-35s will be able to replace the thousands of single engined fighter bombers that they have lost.

I agree that for now making a 5th gen light fighter doesn't make sense and the question should be looked at again in about 2016 or so with a view to the new aircraft entering service in 2022-2025. At that time they will have PAK FA in service in numbers and most of their legasy aircraft (Mig-29s, Su-27s, Mig-31s) that haven't been upgraded will need to be scrapped and replaced.

The Su-35, Mig-35, and Su-34 will be formidable support aircraft for the PAK FA, but I also think that by the 2020s that NATO will have more stealth fighters (F-35s) than the number of PAK FAs that Russia could afford could deal with.

I think the Su-35 will be a very capable opponent for the F-35, and in many areas will be superior, but by 2020 I would hope that Russian aircraft technology will have reached a level where it was ready to make a genuine light 5th gen fighter that is affordable and able to foot it with the best.

It will be a practical aircraft that while perhaps not cheap to buy will be cheap to operate and effective for all those bomb truck roles you would never risk a PAK FA for.

A small light 5th gen fighter could be used as a light recon aircraft, precision attack, fighter, jammer... the number of roles it will be able to perform will be broad.

In many ways it will be a stealthy F-16... in the USAF when F-15C fighters are available the F-16 is a bomb truck. For European AFs that have F-16s as their only fighter it is fighter and bomb truck and everything else.

At this point, ordering Su-35 would probably be cheaper.

Not in the long term.

In most of western Russia most Su-27s operate with 3/4ths empty fuel tanks, which is a bit like using an An-124 to deliver 6 tons of post. For many units a Mig-29 sized aircraft is a more efficient choice, and having an alternative to a Sukhoi fighter is good for competition.

An official... I think it was Rogozin said recently that competition for the PAK FA now would make Sukhoi work harder and result in a better product. Obviously there is no domestic competition for PAK FA now and there wont be... the Mig light 5th gen fighter will compliment rather than compete.

It would also make rather more sense using Mig-35s in support of Army units through frontal aviation than to use Su-35s.

The Mig-35 would be more suited to frontal aviation units than the Su-35, the latter would be more useful for air superiority missions over much larger areas.

...BTW it would be cheaper to only buy Mi-28s, but it would not be better.

Easier is not better.

Sukhoi will be making hundreds of Su-35s and will be tooling up for PAK FAs shortly, so it is going to be pretty busy.

Mig are making Mig-29Ks, which are quite sophisticated aircraft but not Mig-35s.

Keep in mind if the Mig-35 is ordered it could potentially beat the PAK FA into service and be the first Russian fighter with an operational AESA radar.

We are not just talking about Mig... we are talking about the makers of radars for Mig, the makers of engines for Mig aircraft etc etc.

It will not be a serious burden to have Mig-35s and Su-35s and PAK FAs and Mig-31s all in service at once as each has a niche where they are better than the other options, and there is value in getting the production factories for Mig up to date... in 2020-2025 they will need to have some sort of light fighter... whether it is manned or unmanned we can't tell from this time frame, but from what I have read the Mig 5th gen light fighter is probably the best option.

It is better when easier is also cheaper. RuAF has a limited budget, and much to do.

Perfectly true, but what makes you think the Mig-35 will cost more than an Su-35?

I would suggest that unless they only make a dozen or so that the Mig-35 will work out cheaper than the Su-35, and I am pretty sure operational costs will be lower for the smaller aircraft.

The Mig-35 will also have the advantage of an AESA radar.

Where the army units are going to attack in a future conflict ? Caucasus and West Europe. MiG-35 will have to face Typhoons and F-16. I think can do air-defense and attack roles quite successful.

Frontal Aviation operates over the front line... it doesn't matter whether it is attack or defence.

It wont just operate Mig-35s, it will operate a range of aircraft to control the airspace over the battlefield.

Hundreds of Su-35s, Garry are you sure that's not wishful thinking?

How many Flanker export customers are there? Obviously India will want to upgrade via the PAK FA, but other Flanker operators will want Su-35s by 2018... by 2022 or so Russia will likely be ready to export slightly downgraded Su-35s to China... if they order a large enough batch.

There is value in giving work to Mig, there is value in reducing pressure on Sukhoi production capacity, there is value in retaining competition in fighter companies.

I think the Mig-35 is the most vastly underrated fighter today... the T-90AM is everything a T-72 could be and I think the Mig-35 is everything the Mig-29 could be.

I think Sukhois success post cold war has been largely political and that Mig look from the outside to have done the work for little reward.

The Su-33 is a good example... it is a slightly strengthened Su-27 with folding bits and a tailhook. The Mig-29K was almost a complete redesign of the Mig-29 that was fully multirole from the outset and able to use the latest weapons.

Eventually Sukhoi came up with the Su-33KUB, but the fact that Mig got the contract for Indian Mig-29Ks meant they were the cheapest option for the Russian Navy too.

That is good news, especially regarding the hydroplanes.

Hopefully they will order a dozen of so and deploy some to the Caspian and Black Sea Fleets too.

Well I am forever the optimist...

I think as the F-35 gets more expensive and the schedule gets pushed back, and the performance limitations of export models becomes clearer that several Air Forces will look to save a bit of money.

I would think that for countries buying Su-30s, who are suddenly faced with F-35s in their regions might suddenly decide that an Su-35 that is optimised to hunt stealth aircraft might be a much cheaper option than going full stealth themselves (ie PAK FA).

I am sure that the US would love to have production facilities of the F-15 still open and able to upgrade it to current and near future levels of technology.

In fact I would think many in the USAF are getting a bit nervious about buying 3,000 odd F-35s to pretty much replace everything except their F-22s and that new build cheaper 4+ generation aircraft that are proven to be able to do the job would let them sleep better at night.

If there is only a market for 48 for the Russian AF and perhaps a dozen more for export then there is little point in even bothering to make them.

Personally I think that they will likely end up with a force that looks something like this:

200 PAK FA
96 Su-35s
96 Su-30s
48 Mig-29s (C and SMT)
48 Mig-35s
120 Mig-31s


By 2022 they will have a light 5th gen fighter that will replace the Flankers and the Fulcrums and free up some Pak Fas to assist with the aerospace defence role.

In his recent speeches Putin mentioned the priorities for defence and he said strategic missiles, aerospace defence as number one and number two...

Based on that I think there might be a version of the PAK FA that is custom designed for the long range interception role, or their might be a dedicated design.

The fact that they are working on a new CAS design for 2020 suggests that for specific roles they see a value in a customised design.

I think the interception role requires a separate design from a 5th gen stealth fighter.

My opinion of course.

Anything about the Mig-35 he asked hopefully...

The General Staff has put us to task for those troops who are in a battle of the Armed Forces need to have planes to transport heavy brigades, medium and light. Easy to instantly anywhere in the country or abroad, in connection with our international obligations to solve their problems. In what way? Only by using military transport aircraft.

This is interesting...

With Armata in the 50 ton class the new An-124s should be able to carry 3 vehicles each, so it will take quite a few to carry the whole Heavy Brigade.

With a light brigade of course they might all fit into one or two An-124s...

It will likely be used as an operational trainer like the Su-27UB was.

The Su-27UB had a fully functioning radar and full operational systems and could be used as a trainer and as a fighter/multirole aircraft because the guy in the back seat to do stuff and free up the pilot to enable more complicated tasks be performed.

The Su-27UB was so useful they sold it as the Su-30.

In contrast the Mig-29UB two seat trainer only had a basic radar fitted and could not use radar guided weapons and was pretty much just an advanced trainer, though it still had its IRST and could use a wide range of IR guided AAMs and TV and IR guided air to ground missiles and bombs.

The new Mig-35 is based around the two seat MIg-29M2 which has a standard front section and canopy for either single seat or two seat layout with full radar and other systems.

They are handy for training and other uses.

The An-140 will largely replace smaller aircraft in Russian service like the An-26 and An-32 and probably An-72.

They are for short range light payload jobs.

The MTA will replace the An-12 in the longer range heavier payload role...

With a payload of 20 tons the MTA should be able to carry any vehicle in a light Brigade, but will be just too light to carry any vehicle in a medium brigade (which will likely be in the 25-30 ton weight range. The heavy brigade will be up to 60 tons so the Il-476 should be able to carry these and the An-124 could carry up to 3 vehicles of the heavy, 5 vehicles of the medium and perhaps 12-14 light brigade vehicles.

It looks like the Mig-31 will be kept in service till at least 2020 and 100 will be upgraded, presumably with the remainder retired and used for parts... though the guts will be different.

Shame the interviewer didn't ask about the Mig-29 and Mig-35... even if the Mig-35 was too expensive then a couple of Mig-29M2s along with the orders for the Navy Mig-29K2s would be useful, as well as a few more SMT upgrades of late model Mig-29s.

I hope they build single engine 5th gen fighter.

Well I personally hope that they adopt the PAK FA to handle the Flanker role, the Su-34 can take the heavy strike and jammer role, they need a large heavy interceptor to replace the Mig-31 when it finally pops its clogs... as a country the size of Russia needs a dedicated interceptor fighter, and a lighter cheaper numbers stealth fighter makes sense too in my opinion. It doesn't need long range or high speed, though the ability to carry AAMs externally even if conformally would be useful when extreme stealth is not so important (ie chasing down cruise missiles).

Round that off with a new attack helo and a new CAS aircraft and a new strategic bomber and in terms of combat aircraft they should be right....

There of course can be a lot of sharing of technology and equipment and systems so each program should not be started from scratch.

Eventually the role of short range light strike can be handled by the new CAS fighter, and the long range heavy strike can be more than tackled by the PAK DA, so the Su-34 will be useful but wont need to operate forever.

The Pak DA could also be used as the basis for a heavy long range interceptor... personally I would like to see it in the form of a flying wing with a tail structure to allow supersonic flight, with the primary goal of achieving very high speed flight in supercruise mode. Something like mach 1.8 or so would be ideal and would be useful for a civilian airliner version (non stealthy of course) and a less stealthy interceptor model.

The flying wing design would offer the unique opportunity to use the entire leading edge of the wing as a radar antenna array and of course its belly could be covered in long range AAMs of a wide range of types as for an interceptor stealth is not strictly critical so the entire internal volume could be used for fuel... this could allow an enormous flight range with missions measured in days instead of hours...

The cargo jet is the world's third largest after the An-225 and the Airbus A380.

Well... the 225 is a one off aircraft that is not currently operational... so if you are going to count it you might as well also count the Huges Spruce Goose.

The new model An-124 has greater payload capacity than the A380 and in the context of military transport the An-124 is far superior because it has front and rear ramp entry/exit so it can carry military vehicles in a roll on roll off capacity.