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Andy_Wiz

KRON1

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VKO (Aero Space Defence)

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Post n°1

VKO (Aero Space Defence)

Russian Patriot Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:37 am

Russia to place air and space defenses under unified command in 2011

RIA Novosti

16:04 30/11/2010 MOSCOW, November 30 (RIA Novosti) - Russia must create a unified strategic command combining air, missile and space defenses in 2011, President Dmitry Medvedev said on Tuesday.

"Next year we must focus on strengthening our air and space defenses, and combine the existing air defense and missile defense networks, missile early-warning systems and airspace monitoring systems under a unified strategic command," Medvedev said in his annual address to the Federal Assembly.

The Russian political and military leadership have long considered plans to develop strong missile and space defenses by 2020, but no concrete steps have been taken so far and the country does not even have a well-defined command structure to tackle this problem.

According to one proposal, the unified aerospace defense command will absorb some air defense units which are currently part of the Russian Air Force, and Space Forces units.

The Russian military plans to build a comprehensive air and space defense network consisting of S-400 Triumf and future S-500 air defense systems and the Soviet-era MiG-31 Foxhound supersonic interceptors.

The S-500 system is expected to have an extended range of up to 600 km (over 370 miles) and simultaneously engage up to 10 targets. The system will be capable of destroying hypersonic and ballistic targets.

Russia's leading missile manufacturer Almaz-Antei said in March that it was developing at least six types of advanced air defense systems to be available for the Russian military around 2015.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101130-rianovosti02.htm

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Post n°2

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

KRON1 Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:52 am

Thats funny, they already combined space and missiles in the late ninties, then four years later they separated them again because they got rid and dispersed too many specialists . Now they want to unify it yet again to save money. Razz

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Post n°3

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

Russian Patriot Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:55 am

KRON1 wrote:Thats funny, they already combined space and missiles in the late ninties, then four years later they separated them again because they got rid and dispersed too many specialists . Now they want to unify it yet again to save money.

I rather they keep it seperate .

The air force knows nothing about our space defense and will miss everything up!

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Post n°4

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:01 am

So really what they are talking about is the combination of the missile and radar components of the former PVO that were transfered to the airforce and the strategic rocket forces long range and space searching radars to form an space and air defence force.

Would they be subject to the 4 districts control or would they offer a single unified command that covers all of Russian territory covering strategic targets?

The idea of satellite support for air defence systems is pretty cool and additionally missiles that can reach into space yet are mobile enough to operate with an S-400 unit is very interesting.

I think it makes sense for one organisation to monitor the airspace over Russia and the empty vaccuum above that air.

As SAMs start being able to leave the atmosphere so the accompanying radars will need to shift to frequencies to see out into space, so mobile SAMs can contribute to the Russian view of space as well as much larger fixed radars and optical systems currently do.

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Post n°5

Russian Missile Defense

Russian Patriot Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:09 am

Russia to start building unified air and space defense system in 2011 - General Staff

RIA Novosti

12:30 14/12/2010 MOSCOW, December 14 (RIA Novosti) - Russia is planning to build the basis for a unified air and space defense base in 2011 to protect the country from missiles, the chief of the Russian General Staff said on Tuesday.

"The state needs a shield to protect it against attacks from ballistic, medium-range and cruise missiles," Gen. Nikolai Makarov said.

Last week Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said the country's space and air defense systems should be unified before December 2011.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2010/russia-101214-rianovosti03.htm

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Post n°6

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:46 am

The Russian military plans to build a comprehensive air and space defense network consisting of S-400 Triumf and future S-500 air defense systems and the Soviet-era MiG-31 Foxhound supersonic interceptors.

I wonder if this means there is a future for a pure interceptor aircraft?

I have seen ambitious plans of satellite supported radar coverage so aircraft might just be missile carriers using off platform sensors to detect targets, I would think larger aircraft that can supercruise with a heavy load of large long range AAMs would be an ideal replacement for the Mig-31. Stealth would no be so important but reasonably high speed and long range plus large payload of missiles would be important I suspect.

Interesting they describe the new defence as being aimed at missiles with no mention of aircraft.

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Post n°7

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:07 am

I think in theory setting up an organisation with the role of scanning the skies and space above Russia based on two organisations that already try to do so to an extent makes a lot of sense, especially if they can make that data available to the other services where and when they needed it.

If they are going for a real netcentric environment all departments and organisations will need to share data, so even a tank commander can access an air state picture showing friendly and enemy aircraft and missiles in the airspace in his region. He will add to the ground picture using his sensors and transmit up his chain of command to form a part of the ground picture, though of course the majority of the ground picture will come from recon assets designed to cover much larger areas much quicker.

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Post n°8

Russian Missile Defense

Andy_Wiz Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:08 pm

Ok, don't know where to put it since this is most connected to VKO (Aero Space Defence)

This is pretty interesting location - http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2011/04/02/the-shield-of-moscow/

This is a A-35M ABM base also a developmental facility for current A-135 system, one missile that was tested here later was abandoned for A-135...

All valuable and secret equipment was of course rigged out before the location became open.

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Post n°9

Russian Aerospace Defence Forces

GarryB Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:23 pm

The new Space and Air Defence Forces have the following thirteen VKO brigades:

VKO (Aero Space Defence) Thirte10

VKO (Aero Space Defence) Thirte10

Note these brigades are only a part of the VVKO so there is obviously more than this, but this is how they are laid out.

They’re numbered 1-12 and 14. Six are in the Western MD. One in the Southern. Three in the Central. And three in the Far East MD.

1st Aerospace Defense Brigade, Severomorsk, Western MD.
2nd Aerospace Defense Brigade, Khvoynyy, Western MD.
3rd Aerospace Defense Brigade, Kaliningrad, Western MD.
4th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Dolgoprudnyy, Western MD.
5th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Petrovskoye, Western MD.
6th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Rzhev, Western MD.
7th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Rostov-na-Donu, Southern MD.
8th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Samara, Central MD.
9th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Ob, Central MD.
10th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Chita, Central MD.
11th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Komsomolsk-na-Amure, Far East MD.
12th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Vladivostok, Far East MD.
14th Aerospace Defense Brigade, Yelizovo, Far East MD.

This information is from: http://russiandefpolicy.wordpress.com/tag/vvko/

Apart from the cluster of three around Moscow they seem pretty fairly spread out along the Russian southern and western border area.

Just a reminder the VVKO is a combination of the PVO and the VKO.

The PVO was a component of the Air Force that operated radars, interceptors and SAMs like the SA-2, SA-3, SA-5, and SA-10 (S-300) (the S-300V was an Army system) and aircraft like the Su-9/-11, and Su-15 and Su-27 and Mig-31 and Mig-25 and Tu-128.

The VKO had ground based and space based radars and was used for space tracking of threats and targets.

By combining the two forces the new force is now responsible for searching and intercepting threat inside and outside the atmosphere above Russia. From low flying cruise missiles, through aircraft and ballistic missiles and hypersonic weapons in and above the atmosphere.
The VVKO will be the main user of the S-500,a nd will also operate a lot of S-400 systems as well as Mig-31s, Su-35s, and AWACS aircraft, plus ground and space based radars and EO sensors and of course HALE and MALE UCAVs eventually.

Edit: Should point out that the interceptor aircraft seem to be actually Air Force aircraft. PVO was a specific branch of the Air Force and had its own aircraft, but with the merging of the PVO and the Space Defence Force (VKO) it seems the interceptor aircraft remain with the Air Force, but would operate under the control of the VKKO or Aerospace Defence forces.

Last edited by GarryB on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post n°10

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

Russian Patriot Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:35 am

Russia’s Aerospace Defense Forces go on duty to stave off missile threats

Russia’s newly created Aerospace Defense Forces officially went on duty on Thursday to become the country’s first line of defense against strategic military threats.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev proposed the creation of the Aerospace Defense Forces, an analog of the European missile defense network to replace the Russian Space Forces, in 2010.

The new branch of the Russian Armed Forces brings together the country’s air defense and missile defense systems, as well as the early missile warning and space control systems, under a unified command. It is also responsible for launches of spacecraft from the Plesetsk space center in northern Russia.

“The operational structure of our branch is working and will improve in line with the state armament program in the future,” Lt. Gen. Oleg Ostapenko said on Thursday, adding that over 3,000 military and civilian personnel will be on combat duty in aerospace defense units on a daily basis.

The current overhaul of Russia’s aerospace defenses is timely, considering new strategic challenges presented by the planned deployment of the U.S.-backed missile shield in Europe.

The Kremlin says the deployment of U.S. interceptor missiles and radars in Europe is a potential threat to the Russian nuclear arsenal, while Washington is trying to convince Moscow that the European missile shield poses no threat to Russia, as it is needed solely to protect against attack from "rogue states" such as Iran.

In response to the European missile shield plans Russia put a new early warning radar in service capable of monitoring missile launches from Europe and the North Atlantic in the Russian Baltic Sea exclave of Kaliningrad on Tuesday.

The Voronezh-DM class radar has a range of 6,000 kilometers (3,700 miles) and can simultaneously track about 500 targets with high accuracy.

Two similar radars are ready to go on combat duty in Lekhtusi, outside St. Petersburg, and in Armavir in southern Russia, while the construction of the fourth Voronezh class radar will be completed in 2012 near the city of Irkutsk in Siberia.

The new radars will eventually replace the outdated Dnepr and Daryal class radars and close all gaps in radar coverage on Russia's border

http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111201/169208932.html

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Post n°11

Russia’s Aerospace Defense Forces go on duty to stave off missile threats

GarryB Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:09 pm

With the ABM treaty no longer in effect they can now create inward looking Voronezh-DM radars which can obviously cover a large swath of Russian airspace at one time.

With a new space port on the way this new service will likely start launching a lot more satellites soon too.

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Post n°12

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

George1 Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:21 am

Su-35S will assigned to PVO?

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Post n°13

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

TR1 Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:12 am

PVO does not exist anymore.

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Post n°14

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:49 am

All its assets and responsibilities have been transferred to the VKO, or more accurately the PVO and VKO have merged into the VKKO.

As shown by this recent article:

Russia Keeps 30 MiG-31 Interceptors on High-Alert Duty
MiG-31 Foxhound

More than 30 MiG-31 Foxhound supersonic interceptor aircraft are on round-the-clock high-alert duty every day protecting the Russian airspace from airborne threats, Air Force spokesman Col. Vladimir Drik said.

“They [the MiG-31s] scramble every time they receive warnings of a potential violation of the Russian airspace, including the appearance of foreign weather balloons in the stratosphere,”Drik said on Saturday .

The official said the MiG-31s are usually accompanied by highly-maneuverable Su-27 Flanker fighter jets, which provide protection for heavy interceptors.

MiG-31 interceptors are an integral part of a comprehensive aerospace defense network being created in Russia to thwart any potential airborne threats, including ballistic and cruise missiles.

According to various sources, about 500 MiG-31s have been produced since serial production began in 1978, approximately 370 of which remain in service with the Russian Air Force.

Russia plans to upgrade more than 60 MiG-31 interceptors to the MiG-31BM version by 2020.

The modernized version is fitted with upgraded avionics and digital data links, a new multimode radar, color multi-function cockpit displays, and a more powerful weapons-control system. It can detect airborne targets at the range of 320 kilometers (200 miles) and simultaneously track up to 10 targets.

As shown in the bold section the VKKO operates both fighters and interceptors and uses them together.

Su-35s will likely go to the VVS or Air Force first, but most likely the VKKO will upgrade their Su-27s to Su-35s. The question of what they will do regarding the PAK FA is interesting... will they buy a less stealthy version with external weapons, or will they start a program to develop a new replacement for the Mig-31?

The PVO had a history of using custom designed aircraft... while the VVS operated Mig-19s and Mig-21s and Mig-23s the PVO used Su-9s and Su-11s, and Su-15s, and of course Mig-25s and Mig-31s and Tu-128s.

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Post n°15

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

George1 Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:04 pm

VKKO could get the Su-27SM for MiG-31 protection. There are about 50 Su-27SM and 12 Su-27SM3

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Post n°16

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:29 pm

They could, but it is hard to distinguish orders between the VVS and the VKKO.

The VKKO probably wouldn't need the full multirole capability of the Su-35, but the big powerful radar and the wing root mounted L band Radars would be useful.

Once they get organised they will likely order to their own specific needs... a Su-30SM3 perhaps with wing mounted L band AESA radars.

Or they could go a step further and order Su-34s which would be even better suited to very long range missions... fit a huge radar and cram in some 117 engines so it will supercruise... Smile

Smile

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Post n°17

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

medo Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:05 pm

VKO (Aero Space Defence) 06368210

The second serial Su-35 in new colors and with red 02 number.

As I know in Soviet times they build two versions of Su-27, standard Su-27 for VVS and Su-27P for IA PVO and if I'm correct, the main difference was in data link system that Su-27P could work in IA PVO.

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Post n°18

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

George1 Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:17 pm

medo wrote:
As I know in Soviet times they build two versions of Su-27, standard Su-27 for VVS and Su-27P for IA PVO and if I'm correct, the main difference was in data link system that Su-27P could work in IA PVO.

They can do the same with PAK-FA then. And assign some of them to VVKO

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Post n°19

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:18 pm

As I know in Soviet times they build two versions of Su-27, standard Su-27 for VVS and Su-27P for IA PVO and if I'm correct, the main difference was in data link system that Su-27P could work in IA PVO.

Quite true... PVO aircraft often had their radar noses painted a very dark green, as opposed to the VVS which normally had them painted white.

Even the electronics were not exactly the same and an R-27 AAM for the PVO would not be compatible with VVS aircraft as it operated on different frequencies.

They can do the same with PAK-FA then. And assign some of them to VVKO

It is certainly possible that the VKKO might want some PAK FAs, but the question is can they justify the extra cost... especially when an Flanker with an AESA and lots of missiles of long range could do the job much more cost effectively.

The stealthyness of the PAK FA would not be particularly useful intercepting bombers over the north pole.

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Post n°20

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

medo Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:31 am

It is certainly possible that the VKKO might want some PAK FAs, but the question is can they justify the extra cost... especially when an Flanker with an AESA and lots of missiles of long range could do the job much more cost effectively.

The stealthyness of the PAK FA would not be particularly useful intercepting bombers over the north pole.

I'm sure VKKO will use both Su-35 and PAK FA. They will protect whole Russian air space, not only north pole. They will not intercept only bombers, but also other valuable targets, like recce planes, ELINT planes, AWACS, air refueling planes etc, which are usually protected with fighters and stealth PAK FA could easier sneak between them and shot them down. Than they will together with Su-35 deal with enemy fighters and fighter-bombers without support of those planes. They could also shot down UAVs and UCAVs, which will never know, what hit them, because they will not be aware of PAK FA presence there.

Anyone know if those first Su-35s will be received in VVS or in VKKO?

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Post n°21

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

TR1 Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:47 am

Source of PVO and VVS R-27s having different frequencies?

Also, there are no plans so far to install wing mounted arrays on any Flanker in the VVS. I would be quite frankly shocked if it ever came about.

I don't know what all this VKKO talk is about, they don't operate fighters, nor is there any indication they will. Su-35 is going VVS, no doubt about that. Same with Su-30SM (aside from the potential Navy ones). There are not enough Su-35s even entering service to talk about splitting them up into other service branches Smile

Smile

.

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Post n°22

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:07 am

I don't know what all this VKKO talk is about, they don't operate fighters,

post 19 above:

The official said the MiG-31s are usually accompanied by highly-maneuverable Su-27 Flanker fighter jets, which provide protection for heavy interceptors.

Also, there are no plans so far to install wing mounted arrays on any Flanker in the VVS. I would be quite frankly shocked if it ever came about.

It would be more use to the VKKO flankers.

Source of PVO and VVS R-27s having different frequencies?

An old article about R-27s. I think it was a Piotr Butowski article but can't remember.

Same with Su-30SM (aside from the potential Navy ones).

Before recent purchases of various Flanker types by the VVS the only Russian operator of the Su-30 was the PVO.

It was developed from the Su-27UB operational trainer and was intended to be used like a Mig-31 where the guy in the back seat operated the radar instead of a guy on the ground in a van.

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Post n°23

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

TR1 Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:10 am

I don't see how that shows the VKKO has fighters. No Russian description I have seen indicated they operate fighters, something that big would be easy to find. All of the listed fighter strength is either VVS or Navy.

Su-30 did go to PVO (a handful at best), but the VVS absorbed the PVO's aircraft. It also nabbed the army's helicopters.

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Post n°24

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

GarryB Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:17 am

Su-30 did go to PVO (a handful at best), but the VVS absorbed the PVO's aircraft. It also nabbed the army's helicopters.

The VVS took control of the PVOs assets and role, but now the PVO assets and role have been taken from the VVS and combined with the VKO to create the VKKO.

The PVO also used Mig-21 and Mig-23 fighters as well.

The PVO was the major user of the AA-3 AAM, and the AA-6 and the AA-5 and the AA-9 for interceptors and AA-2, AA-8, AA-7, AA-10, AA-11 on fighters.

The VVS used AA-2, AA-7, AA-8, AA-10 and AA-11 on fighters.

I don't see how that shows the VKKO has fighters.

Are you suggesting the PVOs and now VKKOs Mig-31s operated with VVS Flanker cover?

There are plenty of PVO/VKKO airbases that don't have VVS airbases nearby, do the VVS Flankers operate from PVO/VKKO airbases?

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Post n°25

Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

TR1 Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:36 am

I see no basis for assuming the VKKO ever got fighter assets, or MiG-31s. They were given to the air force, and stayed there (small number of navy MiG-31s aside).
Like I said, I have NEVER herd of VKKO getting combat aircraft inventory. Just check RussianPlanes.net, all fighter assets are tagged as VVS units.

Since the reforms, and the consolidation of units into larger airbases, it has been relatively easier to track where units are, and I have never seen any VKKO airbases with fighters.
MIG-31s even have the stupid new "BBC ROSIYE" plastered onto them.

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Re: VKO (Aero Space Defence)

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