Serbian Military History

SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
-  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

- openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

- a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.

Militarov wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
-  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

- openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

- a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.

Your claims are based on what?


You are comparing the Royal Yugoslav Army, which offered minimal resistance to the Germans, with the heroic Yugoslav Partisans?

There is not even a real comparison between these two!


If they were all pardoned then what is the whining about Bleiburg about?


About Germans read here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204160/Darkest-atrocities-Nazis-laid-bare-secretly-recorded-conversations-German-prisoners-war.html


That the Germans and Italians used proxies makes these two innocent?

Royal Yugoslav army was destroyed from the inside, mostly by Croats. My grand-grand father that was mobilised at that time, said that supply trains that came to Montenegro from Croatia to resupply their advance towards Italians to aid the Greeks were literally sabotaged. Shells came without fuses, boots were all cut, only crates of handgrenades came with nothing inside, ammunition that came was not coresponding with rifles they had. So, they had to halt operations after only 3 days due to lack of everything, as nearest major supply centers were in Croatia, which delivered junk. On purpose naturally.

Militarov wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

SturmGuard wrote:Militarov,

what can be said of Montenegrins? You have same people doing ultranationalist Serb thing in the '90s (including the leader), switching overnight to anti-Serb hysteria and confrontationalism? The worst thing is the historical nonsense they come up with, including their take on regional history, and their newly-fashioned Montenegrin language, whose grammar was written by a Croat and a Bosniak/Muslim, and "is based on old Podgorica Muslim folk speech" :DDD

On the topic of WW2, I understand what you are writing about, I am fully aware of the statistics. However, as the German Army retreated, some part of the Volksdeutscher population went with them. Generally speaking, those that thought they had nothing to fear, chose to stay. It was to no avail, their properties were confiscated, they were "encouraged" to leave, executed, interred in camps and used for forced labour in various infrastructure projects.

The same, actually even worse, can be said for the Italians. After the surrender of Italy, there were initially more Italians in Partisans than there were Bosniaks/Muslims. Yet, their fate was horrible, even though they were usually singled out in comparison to displays of savagery of "locals". In both cases, a miniscule fraction of both populations remained. Their homes and properties were filled up with various people. I recommend you to investigate the demographic engineering the Yugocommunists did in Dalmatia, Istria, Vojvodina and Kosovo, some eye-opening information there.

The general characteristic was that there were no trials or investigations done, no justice was even attempted. The worst scum, murderers and criminals from "brotherly" nations were pardoned, accepted into the new order or left to live their lives, while entire historic populations were ethnically cleansed, and masses of POWs and civilians were summarily executed. Not to mention the persecution and reprisals of intellectuals, bourgeoise, White emigrees, royalists etc. If I remember correctly, around 10-15% of those killed in former Yugoslavia during WW2, were killed by Germans and Italians. The rest - by "brothers". The people who initially tried to resist foreign invaders and were taken to concentration camps (the Royal Yugoslav Army personnel - 200 000 of them) and those that chose to continue the resistance were percevied as enemies, as was the Kingdom, which is why Yugocommunists and Ustashe cooperated prior to war, and Yugocommunists viewed the aggresion as an excellent opportunity for an attempt at power usurpation, banking on the suffering of common people, which they exploited for their agenda.
My family had partisans, but they immediately fell out of party favour. Interestingly, one grandpa due to "misunderstandings" concerning his church wedding (he was no devout Christian, just a traditionalist), which probably saved his life because he was supposed to go to USSR for military education. You know what happened to those who returned from USSR before Yugocommunists turned to the West.



On the topic of Šešelj, I have heard some very convincing arguments about his UDBA-backed role of the Trojan horse to Serbian right/nationalist democratic politics.

Something very similar to the now apparent role of both Dveri and the new DSS under Rašković. What else can be said about the party being supported by none other than Jasmina Vujić (I was aware of her background, positions and role due to my profession)? Just Google her, everyone. Or those ridiculous new totally-pro-Russian minor parties that fracture the vote?



You are in deep shit, with no hope in sight. I don't know what is worse:
-  50% of people voted for a coalition containing Rasim (for 16 years in all governments), Vuk Drašković, Babić, Vujin and which openly advocates euroatlantic integration (those same who demonised, dismantled and bombed you) AND good relations with Russia (yeah, something tells me that is mutually exclusive)

- openly separatist and hostile entities are allowed in parliament (SDA, Ugljanin, Albanians, Vojvodina fifth-column)

- a coalition hosting Latinka fuckin' Perović (I really hate that breed of people) of all people, managed to get into parliament


At which point will the people wake up? I mean, there is absolutely no problem in identifying the underlying causes and culprits for the historic downfall of Serbia, the year can be precisely dated to either 1945, or even 1919. How many times does it take for people to finally get a hold of reality?
The NATO agreement signed recently, which continues nicely on the previous one signed by Vuk Drašković while he was MFA, as well as the Bruxelles agreements, should amount to a treason. The economy is not doing well, neither are average wages and pensions.


I hope that I managed to convey my thoughts and opinions to you well; these are just observations from a neighbour. Don't want to come off as an arrogant and/or condescending individual lecturing you on the subject of your country, just genuinely interested in your take on the matter.

Your claims are based on what?


You are comparing the Royal Yugoslav Army, which offered minimal resistance to the Germans, with the heroic Yugoslav Partisans?

There is not even a real comparison between these two!


If they were all pardoned then what is the whining about Bleiburg about?


About Germans read here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2204160/Darkest-atrocities-Nazis-laid-bare-secretly-recorded-conversations-German-prisoners-war.html


That the Germans and Italians used proxies makes these two innocent?

Royal Yugoslav army was destroyed from the inside, mostly by Croats. My grand-grand father that was mobilised at that time, said that supply trains that came to Montenegro from Croatia to resupply their advance towards Italians to aid the Greeks were literally sabotaged. Shells came without fuses, boots were all cut, only crates of handgrenades came with nothing inside, ammunition that came was not coresponding with rifles they had. So, they had to halt operations after only 3 days due to lack of everything, as nearest major supply centers were in Croatia, which delivered junk. On purpose naturally.

Only that they put up hardly any fight in Serbia itself.

You cannot blame everything on the Croat separatists.

Commander of the defence in my city for an example was Slovenian, he told soldiers to lay weapons and go homes. He himself went to greet advancing Germans, one his unit rejected orders and shot two German soldiers on motorcycle.. only two German victims in very wide area.

Yugoslav army had people of various nations serving everywhere across the country, you have some shiny examples of Croats fighting actually, but very few. On other hand you have many examples like one i stated above. And overall defence doctrine of Yugoslav army was wrong, rushing to borders to defend them... there is a book "Pad Kraljevine Jugoslavije", 3 volumes, explaining why and how it happened, would take ages to rephase it.

SturmGuard wrote:Well, the Germans certainly knew who had resisted and who had the potential to be an actual troublemaker.

They took almost 200 000 RYA prisoners to camps in Germany. Gestapo HQ in Serbia had more than 5000 files and the vast majority of resources and manpower dedicated to JVuO and Chetniks. In contrast, the Yugocommunists weren't even deemed worthy of Gestapo bother, being relegated to Nedić auxiliary government (which had minimal authority as Serbia was placed under direct German military rule).

For all this "brave Yugo partisan resistance nonsense", their actual impact was negligible when it comes to Germans and Italians. Something like 10 000 German KIAs, most of it during Axis operations to eliminate Partisans. No concentration camps attacked, no offensives started, no resource and logistic attacks. They "liberated" some Yugoslav cities when Hitler was already dead and Soviet flags were raised in Berlin, Vienna, Prague. They only excelled in sacrificing their people en masse to save the incompetent leadership and scum Tito, forcefully mobilising common people and suffering huge losses. I almost forgot, they also excelled in provoking retributions against civilians, for example Vojnić region, due to actions of some "Heroes of the people".

And just to remind you all, the Yugocommunists greeted the foreign invasion, proclaiming it a perfect opportunity for their revolution, among others. I won't go into further details about their writings and ideas. The consequences of their disastrous rule are evident to this day, as are the consequences of the thorough indoctrination and propaganda campaign.

I cringe when I read foreign texts on Yugoslav partisan resistance against invaders and proclamations about the "greatest resistance movement". In reality, they are right there next to French. Unfortunately, we can't make 'Allo 'Allo because of the many tragic events during and after the war.

Btw, I really like this talk of "weak Yugoslavia so no resistance". What can be said about SFRJ then? Was it attacked from multiple fronts by leading militaries in Europe? Where were you all dedicated and convinced Yugoslavs and Yugocommunists? That's right, hiding and keeping quiet, "minding your own business", just like the opportunistic, treasonous and cowardly lot you and your ancestors were.


Serf mentality and ruthless opportunism; few good and brave people.


Bleiburg is just the most media exposed case. Politicide, mass executions, ethnic cleansing (Volks and Italians), forced labour camps, elimination of "enemies of people" took place on a large scale.