French Nuclear Forces

4th test of the M51, second from the submarine Le Terrible



Earlier tests...

A valid M51 missile weapon system for the submarine The Terrible

AFP | 10.07.10 | 12:21
A shot of the new M51 nuclear missile carried Saturday from the Terrible allowed the validation of this weapon system nuclear submarine ballistic missile ( SSBN ) which will be commissioned in 2010, announcement in a statement the Department of Defense . Herve Morin , Minister of Defence, expressed his great satisfaction after the success of the launch of a strategic missile SSBN M51 performed as still no nuclear warhead , " the statement said. " This test validates the ability to make a terrible shooting conditions operational , it was done in strict compliance with commitments France's international , "the Ministry of Defence. The missile was fired Saturday at 9:32 from the Bay Audierne ( Brittany ), south of the tip Penmarc'h . The fallout area is at central North Atlantic , hundreds of miles from any coast . The flight of the M51 was followed by techniques Branch Armaments Biscarosse and Quimper , and by Monge , building and testing measures responsible for monitoring the test off . air and maritime areas had been temporarily reserved for this test. The Terrible had made his first shot of M51 on January 27 after three firings from land-based facilities in 2006 , 2007 and 2008 . The missile - sea- land - strategic ballistic missile submarines is designed for new generation, starting with the Terrible, launched in March 2008, and who will 16 copies .

http://www.lemonde.fr/depeches/2010/07/10/un-tir-de-missile-m51-valide-le-systeme-d-arme-du-sous-marin-le-terrible_3244_108_42940884.html

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2010? The French will already have their new missiles operational before us!

France has a few (~100) "tactical" warheads carried by ASMP-A supersonic cruise missiles. These very interesting weapons (with a max yield of 300 kT) could be used, according to French doctrine, to fire warning shots to an advancing enemy army.


Both the ASMP-A and the Kh-31 are supersonic, ramjet-powered, missiles that can be launched by tactical aircraft. The difference is that the ASMP-A is heavier and only available with a nuclear warhead.


Rafale with ASMP-A:

The cost of the modernization of the French nuclear forces is estimated at 50 billion euros

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1831689.html

Le Triomphant SSBN / M51 Weapons System Validated In Operational Conditions

Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian expressed his satisfaction today after the successful launch of an M51 strategic ballistic missile by the nuclear-powered missile submarine (SSBN) Le Triomphant this morning at 9:18 a.m. from the Bay of Audierne, in Finistère county.

He extends his warmest congratulations to all the women and men of the Ministry of Defence, the Commission for Atomic Energy and Alternative Energies (CEA) and the companies who contributed to its success.

The missile was monitored throughout its flight phase from the test center of the Directorate General of Armaments (DGA), including the test and telemetry ship “Monge”.

The impact zone is located in the North Atlantic, several hundred kilometers from the nearest coast. As always, this test was conducted without a nuclear warhead and in strict compliance with France’s international commitments.

This firing validates the operational capacity of the overall Le Triomphant weapon system, and again demonstrates the excellence in high technology that French industries are implementing in this area.

The M51 missile today is fitted to three of the four next-generation missile-launching nuclear-powered submarines (SSBN-NG).

The conversion of the entire Force Stratégique Océanique to this new missile is expected by the end of the decade.

New details about the French nuclear forces

As the Le Mamouth blog writes in the Dissuasion: from the administration of the French president in connection with the visit of the head of state to the nuclear-powered submarine with ballistic missiles S 619 Le Terrible (type Triomphant) has already become a tradition to include in the press distribution materials include some interesting figures. Thus, it became known that the visit was provided by 260 marines (almost 10% of the total number of the Marines and Force Maritime Forces fusiliers marins et commandos (FORFUSCO)) and 120 gendarmerie servicemen.

It was reported that the air component of the French nuclear deterrent forces includes "50" fighters Dassault Rafale and Mirage 2000NK3, and this figure is usually not disclosed, but now it has become known to the uninitiated in this closed kitchen. Knowledge of the number of Mirage 2000NK3 fighters in operation (the total number of aircraft of this modification at the end of December 2016 was 29 units - bmpd) makes it possible to calculate the number of Rafale fighters from 1/4 Gascogne squadron involved in nuclear deterrence tasks. However, it should be recalled that these aircraft are also involved in the implementation of air defense and the conduct of operations against IG in the Middle East and against Al Qaeda in Africa. This is the most multifunctional and least expensive component of the French nuclear forces.

It also became known that in the French Navy, the SSBN made almost 500 combat services in 1972 (now one of the boats is on the 492nd combat service). Also, the fact that from the autumn on the French SSBNB will be served by women has been confirmed.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2712318.html

I have a question regarding our nuclear weapons.

I dont know if russia also did under water tests as we did but i did read something about our tests in the south pacific and there is one aspect, that i dont
understand. When the nuclear bomb explodes, it creates an enormous "suction" effect.

Things are pulled towards it. Air pressure drops enormous. The water level drops down around the nuke and from above it looks like someone pulled the pluck.

After a second the effect reverse and the shockwave expands outwards.

Does anyone know what causes this effect? I believed the entire process is expansive from the beginning.

Isos wrote:I think it suck the air around it because of the fire it creates.

I've seen somewhere nuk explosion are the fastest to kill then it's the thermobaric bombs. I think it was in the tv show walking dead when they destroy the medical center.

It doesnt create a fire. It detonated under water. The process is incredible complex. One micrsecond after detonation there is a ball around the center, whioch is hotter than the core of the sun and has a
diameter of 150m. The matter around it (air or water) gets ionized and doesnt allow light to travel through it.

Thats why you see two flares. One when teh bomb detonates and a second later, when the plasma ball has cooled down to 35.000 °C light again can travel.

So what you have is like 1 million °C in first second and it cools down to 35.000 °C within just 3-4 seconds, because the Plasma ball expands.

That "vacuum" effect only exists during this first seconds. And its incredible powerful.

We made a huge mistakewhen we did Opération Canopus in 1968.

The bomb was our first hydrogen bomb and used Plutonium as initial bomb.

The bomb was much more powerful than our scientists expected. It was a big show for France and we did send almost half of our fleet there. When the bomb went off, the explosion was far too powerful. The vacuum effect was so strong that our aircraft carriers and destroyers broke almost all windows. The ships started to get pulled towards.

The staff started to punch their own chest because they could not breath anymore. It was like the air was sucked out of their lungs. After few seconds the effect reversed and the shockwave came.

Thanks god nobody died but we had some real damage on our vessels. And some damage was done to Samoa.

Nobody knows?

franco wrote:

Aristide wrote:Nobody knows?

Not a physics major but the first thing that comes to mind would be that what you are assuming is a 2 part action is actually a 3 part act.
- initial displacement due the explosion creating a vacuum
- immediately followed by the air and or water returning to occupy the vacuum
- then the blast waves generating outwards

Thats possible. Its interesting and when i read it i learned many effects i wasnt aware of.

What you say makes sense. I guess many aspects that happen in the inner core are still unknown or not well understood

Aristide wrote:Nobody knows?

Its called cavitation. With relation to nuclear subsurface explosions, try reading this: http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/11/514/11514122.pdf?r=1

Although you describe the nuke detonation starting with an apparent implosion, that is in fact the second phase. At detonation the first pressure wave in advance of the plasma bubble expands outwards, but at the surface the displacement is a barely noticeable few metre up swell, before the subsurface bubble collapses... dramatically. The pressure wave then rebounds and expands and collapses several times more in a diminishing oscillation.

An example of such cavitations can be seen here... https://youtu.be/cp5gdUHFGIQ?t=271

Teshub wrote:

Aristide wrote:Nobody knows?

Its called cavitation. With relation to nuclear subsurface explosions, try reading this: http://www.iaea.org/inis/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/11/514/11514122.pdf?r=1

Although you describe the nuke detonation starting with an apparent implosion, that is in fact the second phase. At detonation the first pressure wave in advance of the plasma bubble expands outwards, but at the surface the displacement is a barely noticeable few metre up swell, before the subsurface bubble collapses... dramatically. The pressure wave then rebounds and expands and collapses several times more in a diminishing oscillation.

An example of such cavitations can be seen here... https://youtu.be/cp5gdUHFGIQ?t=271

Thank you very much. Thi helps alot. Did russia also perform underwater tests as we did?

I really wonder why the Canopus test ended in such a chaos. I mean France had tested many nuclear bombs before. We almost accidently destroyed 40% or our own fleet.

My guess is the effects rise extremly with the size of the bomb?

Launch vehicle for the Hades SRBM. With a range of 480 km, the Hades would have replaced the Pluton missile in 1992. But the Cold War ended and it was cancelled

I really wonder why the Canopus test ended in such a chaos. I mean France had tested many nuclear bombs before. We almost accidently destroyed 40% or our own fleet.

My guess is the effects rise extremly with the size of the bomb?

Not really a great surprise... the US also got the calculations wrong when they tested a fusion bomb in the Marshall Islands that ended up being much more powerful than they expected...

AFAIK most sides calculated accurately fission explosions but when it came to fusion bombs their calculations were too conservative so instead of a 1 MT explosion... they ended up with a 10 MT explosion or something along those lines.

Regarding the vacuum effect... it would be similar to the fire bombing of German cities during WWII... where HE bombs were used to smash everything open and distribute material around the place, and then incendiary bombs were used to set it all on fire.... the heat from the fire in the centre made the air above rise so air had to come in from the sides to replace it... which brought in new oxygen to fan the flames and make them burn hotter which increased the rising air in a vicious cycle... the winds increased to hurricane force levels and actually dragged in more fuel to feed the fire... they were devastating...

With a nuclear explosion underwater... it is a bit like a nuclear explosion underground you sometimes see... near the surface a lot of material is blown up in the air, but deeper explosions a circle of the surface ground just slumps down and forms a big crater.

The nuclear explosion vaporises a sphere of material that is superheated, but the weight of water or dirt/rock above it is no longer supported and it drops and crushes and fills in the empty space.

In an explosion nearer the surface that creates an enormous mountain of water/steam all that material is going up and needs to be replaced so you get a sidewind with air coming in sideways to replace the displaced air.

It is much more noticable in air bursts because the air gets heated directly and rises rapidly making the air circulation more obvious and dramatic... if you look up youtube you can find lots of US tests where they have built lots of buildings way out in the desert in a test range to evaluate the effect of a nuclear attack, and if you watch video of those tests you will see the flash of the explosion searing the surfaces of the buildings then a blast wave hits them from the initial explosion but then a suction wave sucks the wind back toward the blast area... because the superheated air around the explosion is rising and needs to be replaced.

I don't know if the Soviets made similar errors, but they got the advantage of seeing US and French and British experiments before they tested their bombs so they probably had a better idea of the processes involved.

And they definitely tested nukes in water too.

500 patrols of French nuclear missile submarines

On October 10, 2018, on the basis of the French naval strategic nuclear forces (Force océanique stratégique - FOST) Il-Long near Brest, a ceremony was held in honor of the accomplishment by the French atomic missile submarines of 500 exits to combat patrols (combat service). The ceremony was attended by the Minister of the French Armed Forces Florence Parley and the Chief of General Staff (Commander) of the French Navy Admiral Christophe Prasuc.



https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3374762.html

The lates FAS Nuclear Notebook published in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists is out, this one on French nuclear forces. A copy is available for free here:

France just test fired a submarine launched ballistic missile in the Atlantic

I think this is the M-51 version 2 and not M- 51 version 3.

https://twitter.com/florence_parly/status/1271340711984668673?s=20

Nuclear weapons: France to restart tritium production with EDF

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/nuclear-weapons-france-to-restart-tritium-production-with-edf/

Arrow wrote:The French are showing off their HGV version in an animation. Of course, there is still a long way to go to develop this type of warhead, although who knows, France may be the closest to a hypersonic weapon when it comes to the West.

The French do have the most advanced aerospace industry in Europe, outside Russia that is.

For example they did this thing with the Italians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_eXperimental_Vehicle

French TV Documentary: The story of the development of France's nuclear weapons.