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Log inWell, I think gun laws in Lithuania are too restrictive due to requirements of safekeeping and lack of self-defence laws. What is the case in your country? Will NZ attack become a politized tool to take over gun rights like what is happening there now?
3 posters
Do you support gun control laws in your country?
Regular- Posts : 3894
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GarryB- Posts : 40545
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Location : New Zealand
They rushed through the laws, which are pretty stupid, and it remains to be seen if they will have any practical effect.
I see a local gun shop is advertising SVD rifles with 10 shot mags with the gas system disabled so they aren't semi auto... they are straight pull bolt actions...
Of course the PPSh-43 is made of sheet metal and was built in very difficult conditions... with modern equipment and a bit of knowhow such things can be built fairly easily anyway... they are dreaming if they think banning something will ever work.
BTW there are laws against murder which were ignored too but apparently they don't need changing.
The idiot in question got his fire arms licence on line... his referees that said he was a fine upstanding citizen that is suitable to be allowed to use fire arms only knew him online and had never met him...
He should never have been allowed a licence in the first place... they changed the rules because there was such a huge backlog and it took too long to get a licence so they changed the rules to make it easier for farmers to get licences without having to come in to the city to get a licence and do the interviews.
The thing that really annoys me is that the police are all now armed so if you need an AR-15 then go to the police station in the middle of nowhere and take their pistol and automatic rifle and rest assured no one will be allowed to stop you... we have the stupid British based laws where the vague sufficient force rule is applied... did you use excessive force.
There is of course a double standard... a police officer is called to an instance where a man is walking around with a golf club attacking people and damaging property and of course they shoot him and his family complains it is excessive force... a golf club can kill so fuck him as far as I am concerned.
Fortunately we don't have the problems they seem to have in the US where cops go into places where they feel frightened and shoot first... everyone has heard the stories... like the cops called to a trailer park where the cops approach a trailer and a big dog starts barking so they shoot it and then they shoot the owner through the door because he is rushing out to see what happened to his dog tied up outside his trailer... both are killed of course... and then they find out it is the wrong trailer... or the neighbours call the police because their neighbours front door is open in the middle of the night.... the cops turn up and shoot a lady through an open window because she seems to be pointing a weapon at them... turns out she was playing a playstation game with her son who got to see her die in front of him...
Easy for me to judge right and wrong here in safe NZ, but when you don't pay them very much, let almost anyone do the job clearly without proper training, and they have to operate in a place where almost everyone has a firearm and a belief in their right to protect themselves.
Here in NZ I think the members of the community who shoot rolled over and just accepted the stupid radical demands of the liberals too easily.
They don't care what the facts are, they are not interested in the actual numbers... the reality is that the guns used most in crime here are sawn off 22 calibre rifles and shotguns... also generally shortened. Criminals don't use so called assault rifles, except the few mad dicks... they used to be called Amok killers... to run amok is a very old word describing someone who would run through the village and kill people at random for no apparent reason till they were "stopped".
They don't use it in the media because it is thousands of years old and referred to someone killing random people using a knife or a spear or other non firearm related weapon that existed at the time and that does not suit the anti gun agenda.
In New Zealand you are not supposed to fight back or defend yourself, you are not even supposed to carry a fire arm to protect yourself... which is impractical anyway because pistols are hard to own legally and anything else simply can't be concealed so you can carry it. It is illegal to have a gun for self defence and it is not an acceptable reason for getting a fire arm licence here... so for everyone, you have to phone the police and wait for them to arrive if you are attacked in your home.
Which reminds me of a joke... a farmer calls the police at 2am because there are thieves stealing his four wheel motorbikes (easy to steal and easy to sell and worth a bit of money and most farms are isolated so your chances of getting caught is small). The woman operator he is talking to says she is sorry but there are no officers available to respond at that moment, so he says that this is OK because he has already shot two of them. Fifteen minutes later there are helicopters and police 4 wheel drive vehicles and police vans with dogs roaring up his driveway with swat teams the whole works and when they see him and find there are no guns and no dead bodies they ask him... " I thought you said you had shot the thieves", to which he replies "I thought you said you didn't have anyone available..."
Yeah... I am here all night...
I see a local gun shop is advertising SVD rifles with 10 shot mags with the gas system disabled so they aren't semi auto... they are straight pull bolt actions...
Of course the PPSh-43 is made of sheet metal and was built in very difficult conditions... with modern equipment and a bit of knowhow such things can be built fairly easily anyway... they are dreaming if they think banning something will ever work.
BTW there are laws against murder which were ignored too but apparently they don't need changing.
The idiot in question got his fire arms licence on line... his referees that said he was a fine upstanding citizen that is suitable to be allowed to use fire arms only knew him online and had never met him...
He should never have been allowed a licence in the first place... they changed the rules because there was such a huge backlog and it took too long to get a licence so they changed the rules to make it easier for farmers to get licences without having to come in to the city to get a licence and do the interviews.
The thing that really annoys me is that the police are all now armed so if you need an AR-15 then go to the police station in the middle of nowhere and take their pistol and automatic rifle and rest assured no one will be allowed to stop you... we have the stupid British based laws where the vague sufficient force rule is applied... did you use excessive force.
There is of course a double standard... a police officer is called to an instance where a man is walking around with a golf club attacking people and damaging property and of course they shoot him and his family complains it is excessive force... a golf club can kill so fuck him as far as I am concerned.
Fortunately we don't have the problems they seem to have in the US where cops go into places where they feel frightened and shoot first... everyone has heard the stories... like the cops called to a trailer park where the cops approach a trailer and a big dog starts barking so they shoot it and then they shoot the owner through the door because he is rushing out to see what happened to his dog tied up outside his trailer... both are killed of course... and then they find out it is the wrong trailer... or the neighbours call the police because their neighbours front door is open in the middle of the night.... the cops turn up and shoot a lady through an open window because she seems to be pointing a weapon at them... turns out she was playing a playstation game with her son who got to see her die in front of him...
Easy for me to judge right and wrong here in safe NZ, but when you don't pay them very much, let almost anyone do the job clearly without proper training, and they have to operate in a place where almost everyone has a firearm and a belief in their right to protect themselves.
Here in NZ I think the members of the community who shoot rolled over and just accepted the stupid radical demands of the liberals too easily.
They don't care what the facts are, they are not interested in the actual numbers... the reality is that the guns used most in crime here are sawn off 22 calibre rifles and shotguns... also generally shortened. Criminals don't use so called assault rifles, except the few mad dicks... they used to be called Amok killers... to run amok is a very old word describing someone who would run through the village and kill people at random for no apparent reason till they were "stopped".
They don't use it in the media because it is thousands of years old and referred to someone killing random people using a knife or a spear or other non firearm related weapon that existed at the time and that does not suit the anti gun agenda.
In New Zealand you are not supposed to fight back or defend yourself, you are not even supposed to carry a fire arm to protect yourself... which is impractical anyway because pistols are hard to own legally and anything else simply can't be concealed so you can carry it. It is illegal to have a gun for self defence and it is not an acceptable reason for getting a fire arm licence here... so for everyone, you have to phone the police and wait for them to arrive if you are attacked in your home.
Which reminds me of a joke... a farmer calls the police at 2am because there are thieves stealing his four wheel motorbikes (easy to steal and easy to sell and worth a bit of money and most farms are isolated so your chances of getting caught is small). The woman operator he is talking to says she is sorry but there are no officers available to respond at that moment, so he says that this is OK because he has already shot two of them. Fifteen minutes later there are helicopters and police 4 wheel drive vehicles and police vans with dogs roaring up his driveway with swat teams the whole works and when they see him and find there are no guns and no dead bodies they ask him... " I thought you said you had shot the thieves", to which he replies "I thought you said you didn't have anyone available..."
Yeah... I am here all night...
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2654
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- Post n°3
Re: Do you support gun control laws in your country?
Rodion_Romanovic Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:44 am
In Italy the police is armed, but they are not trained and they're not authorized to use the guns unless the criminal shoot first. And normal citizen are not allowed to have a gun except in some special circumstances.
I believe the laws are like that because they do not want people to rebel against the government.
People do not serve in the army and are not allowed to use weapons... they are the sheeps needed by the elites.
I am understanding just now the importance of the 2nd amendment of the american constitution.
In the past the right to bear arms was one of the major differences between full citizens and slaves....
Now italian politicians (mostly prostitutes at the orders of foreign financial institutions and other masters in foreign states and in the EU government) are continuing their opera of destroying the country and the life of the citizens.
And do you know what people do? They protest against the opposition...
groups of crazy people are capable of huge protests and almost rebellion if you stop the matches of associaction football or if their team loses, but inside Italy here has never been a real rebellion or protest (except the political upheavals of 1848, but they were directed mainly against foreign occupation, and they were also political "springs" directed from abroad)
I believe the laws are like that because they do not want people to rebel against the government.
People do not serve in the army and are not allowed to use weapons... they are the sheeps needed by the elites.
I am understanding just now the importance of the 2nd amendment of the american constitution.
In the past the right to bear arms was one of the major differences between full citizens and slaves....
Now italian politicians (mostly prostitutes at the orders of foreign financial institutions and other masters in foreign states and in the EU government) are continuing their opera of destroying the country and the life of the citizens.
And do you know what people do? They protest against the opposition...
groups of crazy people are capable of huge protests and almost rebellion if you stop the matches of associaction football or if their team loses, but inside Italy here has never been a real rebellion or protest (except the political upheavals of 1848, but they were directed mainly against foreign occupation, and they were also political "springs" directed from abroad)
GarryB- Posts : 40545
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I get the feeling from the western media I see that Americans fear big government and are fine with big business running things because for some reason they seem to think greedy rich people will look after them, while the people they vote for and elect in to government and can therefore also remove from power can't be trusted.
Personally I only think they are half wrong... a better system would be for the people to elect everyone... congress, senate, and politicians, but not let the democrat or republican party have any say in anything.
The American system might as well be communism because even in a communist system there can be factions vying for power and there are always two and often more potential candidates which effectively makes it the same or better than the US system. The people who are members of the communist party get to vote for their leader... something the average American doesn't really get the chance to do... what they actually get is the choice of the people big business and really rich people in the US choose to fund for the job.
With Europe I kinda get the feeling people would prefer big government to big business, and think businesses will take away workers rights and peoples priviledges like healthcare and education and all the safety nets being set up to help people who need help.
Of course their stupid liberal governments have blown most of that because new migrants are using up all the money and space for housing for the poor and medical and education capacity, so when the people paying 50c in the dollar taxes to pay for it all need it... it might not be there for them or they might have to wait 6 months for a house to become available...
Both talk about freedom and democracy but they don't hold that many referendums to actually find out what their people want... say what you like about Putin but he goes on TV and spends hours talking to the people live pretty much every year and he seems to spend a lot of time talking to people... while western politicians seem to try to avoid awkward situations whenever they can.
Personally I only think they are half wrong... a better system would be for the people to elect everyone... congress, senate, and politicians, but not let the democrat or republican party have any say in anything.
The American system might as well be communism because even in a communist system there can be factions vying for power and there are always two and often more potential candidates which effectively makes it the same or better than the US system. The people who are members of the communist party get to vote for their leader... something the average American doesn't really get the chance to do... what they actually get is the choice of the people big business and really rich people in the US choose to fund for the job.
With Europe I kinda get the feeling people would prefer big government to big business, and think businesses will take away workers rights and peoples priviledges like healthcare and education and all the safety nets being set up to help people who need help.
Of course their stupid liberal governments have blown most of that because new migrants are using up all the money and space for housing for the poor and medical and education capacity, so when the people paying 50c in the dollar taxes to pay for it all need it... it might not be there for them or they might have to wait 6 months for a house to become available...
Both talk about freedom and democracy but they don't hold that many referendums to actually find out what their people want... say what you like about Putin but he goes on TV and spends hours talking to the people live pretty much every year and he seems to spend a lot of time talking to people... while western politicians seem to try to avoid awkward situations whenever they can.
GarryB- Posts : 40545
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Join date : 2010-03-30
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People say American gun laws are too weak, but when you are actually as likely to get shot by a police officer as a criminal I think I would want the choice of carrying a fire arm myself rather than wait for the police to arrive and hope they don't shoot me by mistake, or hope the guy stealing from me wont shoot me out of the goodness of his heart.
Let me be clear, I am a gun owner. I follow the rules... no matter how stupid or restrictive.
We had strict rules before... if you wanted the gun that dickhead used you would need a special licence which is very hard to get, the rules on ownership of such weapons were extreme. You need a 6mm steel gun safe, you needed a home alarm system monitored by a security service, you needed a special licence and a permit to buy each weapon you buy, you were not allowed to lend the firearm to anyone so if you are out shooting with friends they are not allowed to fire it or even carry it.
They called them MSSAs, or military style semi automatics, which of course is bullshit. What they didn't do was ban the large capacity magazines.
I had a chinese made AKM (Type 56S) and a chinese made M4 carbine, and a Lithgow SLR (FN FAL) (A bloody nice one).
I had 20 and 30 shot magazines which the police call large capacity magazines, which is bullshit because those are the standard capacity magazines for those rifles.
But there is no use for such weapons of war... you must have killed thousands of people with those guns.
Nope.
The SLR I just used to shoot targets, but the AK was excellent for shooting goats... it was easy to clean and easy to shoot and simple in design, relatively compact and not heavy. The intermediate round is ideal for short range shooting and having a 30 round mag I can put all the ammo for the hunt in one magazine that I could carry in a bag till I was in the area I was going to shoot and I could attach the mag to the gun so when I saw a goat or mob of goats I could quietly cycle the bolt and load a round ready to fire... it was ideal.
With the new MSSA laws I needed thumbhole stocks because pistol grips are bad, and I needed 7 shot mags because changing mags takes for ever... not.
Was not really that impressed with the M4... they go on about being able to buy all sorts of stuff like new uppers in different calibres, but I never saw that many and the ones I did see were bloody expensive. It just seemed to complex for what it was... and a bit fragile...
Anyway, the current laws are much stricter and the amnesty is ending very soon so we will see what happens... the local gangs like the Mongrel mob have said they wont hand over their guns... presumably they don't have licences anyway...
I am sure the politicians in their ivory towers will think they are safer now.... but then Guy Fawks didn't try to blow up parliament with assault rifles, so when you take that option away they wont not do it... they will just use something else... hell... they could park unmarked white vans at the emergency assembly points outside parliament buildings filled with huge bombs and then set off the fire alarms and when everyone comes out and lines up... boom...
But that is the problem to tell people why the new laws wont keep them safer you basically have to describe situations where lots of people can be killed that don't involve using fire arms so you are giving dickheads ideas... but people are stupid.... politicians even more so.
Let me be clear, I am a gun owner. I follow the rules... no matter how stupid or restrictive.
We had strict rules before... if you wanted the gun that dickhead used you would need a special licence which is very hard to get, the rules on ownership of such weapons were extreme. You need a 6mm steel gun safe, you needed a home alarm system monitored by a security service, you needed a special licence and a permit to buy each weapon you buy, you were not allowed to lend the firearm to anyone so if you are out shooting with friends they are not allowed to fire it or even carry it.
They called them MSSAs, or military style semi automatics, which of course is bullshit. What they didn't do was ban the large capacity magazines.
I had a chinese made AKM (Type 56S) and a chinese made M4 carbine, and a Lithgow SLR (FN FAL) (A bloody nice one).
I had 20 and 30 shot magazines which the police call large capacity magazines, which is bullshit because those are the standard capacity magazines for those rifles.
But there is no use for such weapons of war... you must have killed thousands of people with those guns.
Nope.
The SLR I just used to shoot targets, but the AK was excellent for shooting goats... it was easy to clean and easy to shoot and simple in design, relatively compact and not heavy. The intermediate round is ideal for short range shooting and having a 30 round mag I can put all the ammo for the hunt in one magazine that I could carry in a bag till I was in the area I was going to shoot and I could attach the mag to the gun so when I saw a goat or mob of goats I could quietly cycle the bolt and load a round ready to fire... it was ideal.
With the new MSSA laws I needed thumbhole stocks because pistol grips are bad, and I needed 7 shot mags because changing mags takes for ever... not.
Was not really that impressed with the M4... they go on about being able to buy all sorts of stuff like new uppers in different calibres, but I never saw that many and the ones I did see were bloody expensive. It just seemed to complex for what it was... and a bit fragile...
Anyway, the current laws are much stricter and the amnesty is ending very soon so we will see what happens... the local gangs like the Mongrel mob have said they wont hand over their guns... presumably they don't have licences anyway...
I am sure the politicians in their ivory towers will think they are safer now.... but then Guy Fawks didn't try to blow up parliament with assault rifles, so when you take that option away they wont not do it... they will just use something else... hell... they could park unmarked white vans at the emergency assembly points outside parliament buildings filled with huge bombs and then set off the fire alarms and when everyone comes out and lines up... boom...
But that is the problem to tell people why the new laws wont keep them safer you basically have to describe situations where lots of people can be killed that don't involve using fire arms so you are giving dickheads ideas... but people are stupid.... politicians even more so.