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    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

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    • Post n°1

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  RTN Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:11 pm

    The way I see it even after Hypersonic missiles make their debut by 2025 or so they will not replace all the supersonic missiles.

    For instance,

    (1) Currently there are no Air to Surface missiles that are even Supersonic, so it is not possible that they may become hypersonic.

    (2) Even Surface to Surface missiles barring Oniks/Brahmos is Supersonic.


    So we are left with

    (1) Surface to Air Missiles that are Supersonic - SM3, PAC 3, S-400, Arrow 3

    (2) Air to Air missiles that are supersonic

    (3) Re entry vehicles of IRBMs, ICBMs


    Ergo, which missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?
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    • Post n°2

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  Isos Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:38 pm

    Currently there are no Air to Surface missiles that are even Supersonic, so it is not possible that they may become hypersonic.

    Kh-58, kh-31 are superonic anti radar missiles.


    Ergo, which missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Depend if the hypersonic speed is needed. Oniks has a very low attack mode. Going at hypersonic speeds at very low altitude reduces range.

    For air to air missiles hypersonic speeds means less time to calculate impact point. The radar will need to see further and process faster. Manoevring at hypersonic speed has also an impact on the structure... which bring new issues. In the same time speeds of fighters and bombers don't exceed practically mach 1.5-2.
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    • Post n°3

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  flamming_python Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:05 pm

    Why would they replace all of them?
    Did supersonic missiles replace all subsonic missiles?
    No of course they didn't; each has their trade-off between speed, range, cost, maneuverability and targeting systems.
    For different scenarios you'll pick the best suited missile for the job - ideally.

    The only likely supersonic candidates for replacement in the near future are the Oniks and Kh-15 missiles; to be replaced by the Zirkon and GZUR respectively.

    However even then the stocks of the old missiles won't be withdrawn right away. We'll likely see the Oniks continuing to be equipped onto naval warships for perhaps another 15 years.
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    • Post n°4

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  Hole Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:01 pm

    Tactical air-to-surface missiles:

    Kh-25MP     3.240km/h
    Kh-25ML    3.132km/h
    Kh-25MR     2.808km/h

    Kh-29        2.160km/h

    Kh-31        3.600km/h

    Kh-38ML     2.200km/h

    Kh-58U         3.600km/h
    Kh-58UShK   4.200km/h

    So much to "no ASM´s are supersonic".
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    • Post n°5

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  magnumcromagnon Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:46 pm

    Hole wrote:Tactical air-to-surface missiles:

    Kh-25MP                         3.240km/h
    Kh-25ML                         3.132km/h
    Kh-25MR                         2.808km/h

    Kh-29                             2.160km/h

    Kh-31                             3.600km/h

    Kh-38ML                         2.200km/h

    Kh-58U                           3.600km/h
    Kh-58UShK                     4.200km/h

    So much to "no ASM´s are supersonic".

    Yeah, I got a good chuckle out of that! There's air-launched Brahmos/Onyx, the air-launched Vikhr, Ataka, Shturm, and I guess you can't count Kinzhal because it's hypersonic lo! Wink
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    • Post n°6

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  RTN Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:06 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Why would they replace all of them?

    No, I'm not saying that all the missiles will be replaced. I was asking which supersonic missiles are likely to be replaced by hypersonic missiles.
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    • Post n°7

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  RTN Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:09 pm

    Hole wrote:Tactical air-to-surface missiles:

    Kh-25MP                         3.240km/h
    Kh-25ML                         3.132km/h
    Kh-25MR                         2.808km/h

    Kh-29                             2.160km/h

    Kh-31                             3.600km/h

    Kh-38ML                         2.200km/h

    Kh-58U                           3.600km/h
    Kh-58UShK                     4.200km/h

    So much to "no ASM´s are supersonic".

    Was referring to NATO air to surface missiles. I didn't have much information about Russian air to surface missiles.


    That being said, missile design keep on changing. For example Rollerons' are not widespread in missile design despite the fact that they seem to be a a very simple yet ingenious method for maintaining roll stability

    Isos wrote:Going at hypersonic speeds at very low altitude reduces range.

    I understand to address this issue, new engines and new fuel are being developed both in Russia & in the US.
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    • Post n°8

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  hoom Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:54 am

    Basically Onyx & Granit are the obvious things to be replaced by Zirkon.
    Maybe P500/P1000 on the Slavas.
    With INF ending it can substitute/compliment Iskander on land.

    There is supposed to be a Light version of Zirkon being developed 'for Corvettes' which I suspect means for Uran inclined launchers since we seem to have confirmation that the normal-size fits in UKSK.
    A Uran-size hypersonic anti-ship missile would be likely to have an air-launched version too.

    Maybe a long-range 'AWACS Killer' AA missile and/or Harm type would be amenable to simlar hypersonic tech.
    This of course assumes that Zirkon is actually air-breathing tech.
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    • Post n°9

    Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ? Empty Re: Which type of Supersonic missiles will be replaced by Hypersonic missiles ?

    Post  magnumcromagnon Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:20 am

    hoom wrote:
    Maybe a long-range 'AWACS Killer' AA missile and/or Harm type would be amenable to simlar hypersonic tech.
    This of course assumes that Zirkon is actually air-breathing tech.

    Bingo! This is the point I've been trying to make for quite some time. The greatest aspect of Zircon isn't the missile but the technology and wide scale application of it.
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    • Post n°10

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    Post  Hole Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:33 am

    The developer of the Pantsir system was thinking loudly ablout a hypersonic missile for his system.

    A hypersonic ATGM would also be nice.
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