Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+72
mack8
BenVaserlan
Tolstoy
gc3762
bitcointrader70
ALAMO
Podlodka77
Atmosphere
Lennox
mnztr
Krepost
Autodestruct
franco
Rasisuki Nebia
Gomig-21
Lurk83
Russian_Patriot_
x_54_u43
Broski
Mir
lancelot
limb
Backman
tanino
owais.usmani
LMFS
lyle6
zepia
TMA1
thegopnik
Scorpius
The-thing-next-door
KoTeMoRe
Tai Hai Chen
PhSt
d_taddei2
eridan
Viktor
JohninMK
magnumcromagnon
ult
Rodion_Romanovic
AMCXXL
Regular
hoom
Cyberspec
calripson
ultimatewarrior
SeigSoloyvov
archangelski
Gazputin
George1
flamming_python
kvs
Nibiru
GunshipDemocracy
miketheterrible
zg18
Isos
medo
GarryB
Tsavo Lion
PapaDragon
Arrow
xeno
Hole
Big_Gazza
ATLASCUB
marcellogo
dino00
william.boutros
Austin
76 posters

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11604
    Points : 11572
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Isos Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:58 pm

    Hole wrote:The F-35 is subsonic. Very Happy

    And it sucks Very Happy
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40573
    Points : 41075
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:33 am

    There are tactics you can use against any defence... you just have to look at upgrades to Soviet air defence systems to work out what they were... the Kub/Buk family which are related is an excellent example of development...

    The SA-6 KUB was used in the Middle East and was very effective initially, but Israel realised it could send in drones and when the radars detected and were tracking the drones wild weasel aircraft could launch anti radiation missiles to take out the single radar of the battery and then while the battery was down they could send in F-16s with bombs to take out the now defenceless TELs.

    The next generation system is the BUK, SA-11, and every TEL has its own tracking and engagement radar so even if the main radar is hit each missile vehicle can still engage aircraft. The SA-11 also increased the number of ready to fire missiles by having four missiles per launcher instead of three.

    The BUK and also the KUB were upgraded with optical guidance channels too in case of serious jamming or lots of ARMs.

    The next BUK upgrade was the SA-17 with shorter fins and improved flight performance that allowed the missiles to engage ARMs as well as aircraft and drones and cruise missiles... range was also increased.

    The current new model BUK has 6 ready to fire missiles on the launchers and 12 missiles ready to launch on the reload vehicles... so clearly they fear the response to their previous upgrades would simply be an overwhelming attack of greater numbers.

    It sounds flippant... just use more missiles... but there is a reason they never previously planned to launch hundreds or thousands of missiles or drones at each air defence unit, but it becomes orders of magnitude more expensive, rather difficult to manage and organise, and to be honest it becomes a very serious counterstrike target... if you want to launch hundreds of ARMs then you need a lot of planes and to maximise the number of ARMs those planes will be mostly carry ARMs and not other weapons to fight with... which means a long range SAM attack or a pre-emptive attack with armed drones like the S-70 could ruin your attack before it even starts costing you a lot of assets.

    Imagine an attack on an S-400 battery... satellite images show what is there so they know they need at least 500 targets to overwhelm the system comfortably, so they prepare... they have tomahawks from ships and subs, and they have 10 B-1Bs, and they also have 50 F-35s that are going to deliver just over 500 munitions at the battery... but defensive radar detect the aircraft forming up so several S-70s are launched out into international airspace towards where the B-1Bs are forming up and the F-35s are detected... the ship and sub missiles have to travel the furthest and are launched first so they all arrive together and those launches are detected so it is weapons free... each of the 10 or so S-70s then selects aircraft and starts engaging them at long range with RVV-BD missiles... which can outmanouver 8 g targets so the F-35 and B-1Bs with missiles have no chance at all to dodge... four missiles per drone means the B-1Bs are probably dead meat, and a good portion of the F-35s are going to splash down too... this is a very serious loss just to take out one S-400 site... and the early warning of the attack provided by satellite and S-70 means aircraft can be mobilised to help defend the S-400 base which might come out of it without a scratch...

    Obviously I idealised that in favour of the defender, but I ignored things like GPS jammers rendering the tomahawks inaccurate, active jamming and decoy systems to deal with ARM based weapons and of course any other air defence unit that might be activated between the S-400 battery and the attackers that could also pick off incoming threats... but knocking down the B-1Bs would serious reduce the attacking force of missiles... they would likely be carrying 24 munitions each so that halves the attack strength alone...
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 37
    Location : portugal

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  dino00 Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:55 pm

    Russian heavy strike drone Okhotnik makes first flight russia

    The first flight lasted for over 20 minutes


    MOSCOW, August 3. /TASS/. Russia’s Okhotnik (Hunter) heavy unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV), developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau, has made the first flight, the Russian Defense Ministry told reporters on Saturday.

    "Under the test program, a long-duration flight time UCAV Okhotnik has performed its first flight," says the press release circulated by the defense ministry. "The first flight took place at 12.20 Moscow time and lasted for over 20 minutes. The aerial vehicle flown by the operator made several circles around the airfield at an altitude of 600 meters and then successfully landed.".

    https://tass.com/defense/1071784

    attack

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18528
    Points : 19033
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  George1 Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:44 am

    The first prototype S-70 "Okhotnik" at the aerodrome of the 929th State Chkalov Flight Test Center in Akhtubinsk (Astrakhan region). June 2019

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 71148710
    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 71151110
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec


    Posts : 2904
    Points : 3057
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Cyberspec Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:52 am

    dino00 wrote:Russian heavy strike drone Okhotnik makes first flight russia


    Good news....now hopefully they will release the footage

    ...

    Some interesting tid bits of information from Paralay's forum


    a Message from Oct 2015 - Speaking at the "round table" in the presence of journalists, Kutakov said that Russia after 2020 will appear strategic supersonic drone with a range of about 8 thousand kilometers.

    A message from 25.02.2018 - Conducted the development of unmanned complex for long-range, capable of performing automatic low-altitude supersonic flight in operational, strategic depth, and hit both stationary and mobile targets, - told the TV channel "Zvezda", the representative of Central research Institute of the air force Alexander Nemov.


    Also, a model of what looks like another strike drone....possibly also in development

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Ab0852da0a72
    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 File
    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Pak%2Bda%2Bfi
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec


    Posts : 2904
    Points : 3057
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Cyberspec Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:30 pm

    Here's a short video of the 1st flight....cheers
    zg18
    zg18


    Posts : 888
    Points : 958
    Join date : 2013-09-26
    Location : Zagreb , Croatia

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  zg18 Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:01 pm

    Cyberspec wrote:Here's a short video of the 1st flight....cheers

    russia thumbsup
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 37
    Location : portugal

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  dino00 Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:08 pm

    zg18 wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Here's a short video of the 1st flight....cheers

    russia  thumbsup

    Niiice! Cool
    ATLASCUB
    ATLASCUB


    Posts : 1154
    Points : 1158
    Join date : 2017-02-13

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  ATLASCUB Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:12 pm

    Big booty!
    ultimatewarrior
    ultimatewarrior


    Posts : 798
    Points : 796
    Join date : 2016-09-19
    Location : Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty s-70 okhotnik

    Post  ultimatewarrior Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:36 pm

    S-70 first flight

    https://twitter.com/vezhlivo/status/1159047176464621568
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40573
    Points : 41075
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  GarryB Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:25 pm

    Interesting... didn't use AB, and climbed quite rapidly, though for a test it probably didn't have a full payload of weapons or fuel...

    It clearly uses split flaps for yaw control as shown during landing... while in flight it looked a bit like the F-117 from below...

    During takeoff from behind there is a large rear facing hole to the right of the engine... interesting...
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11130
    Points : 11108
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Hole Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:00 pm

    Propably for cooling of the engine or internal equipment.
    avatar
    calripson


    Posts : 753
    Points : 808
    Join date : 2013-10-26

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Why not stealthy engine outlet?

    Post  calripson Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:57 pm

    Why are they using a rounded engine outlet? Did they not have the time/money to design one???
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13479
    Points : 13519
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  PapaDragon Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:10 pm

    calripson wrote:Why are they using a rounded engine outlet? Did they not have the time/money to design one???

    Engine and landing gear are placeholders



    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11130
    Points : 11108
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Hole Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:49 pm

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 5d4aa910
    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 5d4aaa10
    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 5d4aaa11
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11130
    Points : 11108
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Hole Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:51 pm

    Round engine outlet. Really weird. Must be lack of money.

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 1200px10

    unshaven

    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11130
    Points : 11108
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Hole Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:26 pm

    Sarcasm aside. More pics.

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Ohotni10
    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Ohotni11
    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Ohotni12
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11604
    Points : 11572
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Isos Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:02 pm

    The engine is probably for test. They will make a special engine for it by taking into account the range wanted by the air force, the weight of the drone and if they want it to be supersonic or not. All those parameters will be determined by tests, lot of tests.

    Izd 30 is the priority and they are working hard on it. Once finished they will switch for a new engibe for thos drone.

    Just my opinion.
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec


    Posts : 2904
    Points : 3057
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Cyberspec Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:07 am

    Since it's meant to operate in conjuction with the Su-57, it's likely it will have the same engine
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11604
    Points : 11572
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Isos Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:25 am

    Cyberspec wrote:Since it's meant to operate in conjuction with the Su-57, it's likely it will have the same engine

    Not really an argument. Those are two different aircraft.
    Cyberspec
    Cyberspec


    Posts : 2904
    Points : 3057
    Join date : 2011-08-08
    Location : Terra Australis

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Cyberspec Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:45 am

    Isos wrote:
    Cyberspec wrote:Since it's meant to operate in conjuction with the Su-57, it's likely it will have the same engine

    Not really an argument. Those are two different aircraft.

    Wanna bet on it?
    kvs
    kvs


    Posts : 15873
    Points : 16008
    Join date : 2014-09-11
    Location : Turdope's Kanada

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  kvs Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:46 am

    It has been discussed ad nauseam that 2D "stealth" nozzles kill the value of 3D thrust vectoring. For such a small cross section of
    EM scattering given the overall size of the frame, this is an unacceptable sacrifice. The F-35 just hammers in the nail into this stupid
    fanboi trope.

    If one really cared about the ability of the jet to survive, then it would be the IR signature of the engine exhaust. For all the
    supposed benefits of 2D nozzles, the amount of cooling they achieve is marginal. An IR chasing missile will still do its job regardless
    of all the "stealth" features. IR and and optical targeting work on "stealth" wunderwaffen as well.

    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40573
    Points : 41075
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  GarryB Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:49 am

    Normally intakes for cooling face forwards and are intakes rather than rear facing exhausts... and considering the stealth design I would expect any such intake to be incorporated into the engine intake so cold air is taken as it enters the intake and directed through pipes over anything that needs cooling and might have its own exhaust to prevent blowback where it is directed back into the engine or the engine exhaust where the higher pressure might result in a reverse airflow through the system so it stops being a cooling system and starts being a heating one...

    It doesn't seem to have a cover so it probably isn't an APU exhaust system used when the APU is running on the ground... might be a position for a rear facing optical or radar system for self awareness to be filled in later...
    avatar
    Gazputin


    Posts : 354
    Points : 354
    Join date : 2019-04-07

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty its just a prototype

    Post  Gazputin Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:34 am

    despite what people say … to me its obvious this thing isn't meant to fly with an AL-41 its meant for the new engine Iz-30 which is more compact
    you can see the lines of the craft quite clearly and how the big engine doesn't fit

    and don't forget the Iz-30 is dual cycle … which will allow it to loiter longer
    most people are thinking the wrong way … this thing is more like an Su-34 …. a long loiter aircraft

    as for the shape of it in plan view …
    is it me ? but every time you watch these type of aircraft fly they have these split flaps way out of the wing ends opening and closing

    and with the steep angle of the wing … this makes the wing tips the "rear" of the plane ….
    and hence …. the tail(s)
    and as the thing doesn't have a fixed tail giving a natural self correction …. to make the back slower and the sides of the tail providing "unnoticed" corrections to yaw ….
    the extreme ends of the wings are detecting yaw variation and the split flaps then correct it to keep it flying straight …

    I don't think the "extreme sweep" is about speed envelope … I think its about yaw control ….. and creating 2 "tails" at the rear end of the UAV
    is most easily created via extreme sweep ….. and a straight line is easier to make it stealthier

    also if you want a reasonable loiter time …. you need a reasonable amount of bypass in your engine
    which creates a widish diameter engine …. so you need a "fat body" to stick it into …..
    and that just happens to allow you to have some nice internal weapon bays ….

    I think logically you just end up with a shape like this ….
    if you are trying to achieve a long distance, long loiter, stealthy design ….

    I see this thing as an unmanned Su-34 …..
    with no microwave oven, toilet, bed …. crew

    every time I see one of these types of aircraft fly with those split flaps/rudders ….. I get more convinced how they work





    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11130
    Points : 11108
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Hole Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:03 am

    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Ohotni13
    The inlet is in front of it.

    Sponsored content


    S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV - Page 7 Empty Re: S-70 "Okhotnik" UCAV

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Nov 24, 2024 9:57 pm