Future russian aircraft carriers. #2

..and maybe AEW with speed, range and payload.

Tsavo Lion wrote:That may be harder or impossible to achieve on a helo, but they could be deployed on escorts &/ supply ships to make up for it, so there's no need for E-2's speed & range.

Tsavo Lion wrote:

..and maybe AEW with speed, range and payload.

That may be harder or impossible to achieve on a helo, but they could be deployed on escorts &/ supply ships to make up for it, so there's no need for E-2's speed & range.

Tsavo Lion wrote:The radome/folding antenna & all electronic gear will increase weight & drag, thus decreasing its range & speed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-92
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/201804031154-qkfd.htm

Time will tell!

At the Montreux convention, the construction of a new channel will not be affected in any way. After all, it (the convention) applies not only to the Bosporus, but also to the Dardanelles.
https://finobzor.ru/66358-turciya-gotova-stroit-dubler-bosfora.html?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

The Dardanelles is 61 kilometres (38 mi) long, and 1.2 to 6 kilometres (0.75 to 3.73 mi) wide, averaging 55 metres (180 ft) deep ..
The very narrow and winding shape of the strait is more akin to that of a river. It is considered one of the most hazardous, crowded, difficult and potentially dangerous waterways in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dardanelles#Present_morphology

miketheterrible wrote:here is an article about what was said apparently:

https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=3051169&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

The domestic aviation industry is undergoing big changes. In a year and a half, Russia will supply the market with the brand-new MC-21 medium-haul airliner — this is the main hope of our civil aviation. Meanwhile, the Russian Air Force has high hopes for the main military breakthrough — the Su-57 fifth-generation jet fighter. When will it go into service? What other kinds of aircraft should we expect?

Yuri Slyusar, the head of the United Aircraft Corporation, spoke about this with our reporter Nailya Askerzade.

The Su-57 jet fighter is in the sky over Zhukovsky. Fast, maneuverable, and completely invisible to foreign radar systems. A 300-meter-long runway is enough for it in order to take off.

Nailya Askerzade, reporter: "Of course, many people dream of at least approaching the top-secret Su-57 fifth-generation jet fighter. We have a unique opportunity to look at it in detail. This "king of dogfighting" is so unique that we aren't allowed to film everything. The state-of-the-art target acquisition system allows target tracking at a considerable distance, the engine features greater thrust and fuel efficiency, and the smart cockpit advises the pilot how to operate.

Taras Artsebarsky, test pilot: "In fact, having flown this plane, when I happen to fly the previous generation jet, I can't help noticing the imperfections, the things that are missing compared to the new one. The new jet features a powerful AI support system for the pilot; it performs a lot automatically and, overall, it allows the pilot to concentrate on the main combat tasks without any distractions".

Taras Artsebarsky is a first-class test pilot. He is the son of cosmonaut Anatoly Artsebarsky, so he's been close to the sky since his childhood. He has already mastered more than 20 types of aircraft, so he has a big sample size for comparison.

- Do you remember your first flight on this fighter?

- Of course, I do. Pilots always remember such things; any sortie on a new type of aircraft is unforgettable and even more so if it is such a fighter jet.

- What nickname did you and your colleagues give this aircraft?

- We nicknamed it affectionately, kindly, by his index name — "Poltinnik" (fifty). And we're still calling it that because we're used to now.

The West got intrigued by these aircraft after two such jets were transported to Syria in February.

- When will the Ministry of Defense take charge of these planes?

Yuri Slyusar, President of the United Aircraft Corporation: By the end of this summer. I think, at Patriot Park, we'll sign a contract with the Defense Ministry regarding the delivery of the first production batch. This is such a significant event for us. In total, we have planned to purchase around 12 jets so, next year, they will be supplied directly to the unit.

eehnie wrote:
With the Project 23000 Shtorm Aircraft Carrier, Russia may not need even a navalized variant of the Su-57, and likely will be able to operate in the new aircraft carriers with the main variant of the Su-57.

Now, all the anti Project 23000 Shtorm trolls can go to cry by the corners. Also the VTOL/STOVL fighter trolls.  

LMFS wrote:

eehnie wrote:
With the Project 23000 Shtorm Aircraft Carrier, Russia may not need even a navalized variant of the Su-57, and likely will be able to operate in the new aircraft carriers with the main variant of the Su-57.

I think you are stretching this a bit:

1. These 300 m can hardly mean full load from a flat surface.

2. That take-off run would mean to put fighters to take off in a conventional carrier where they need to land. You don't do that

3. Takeing off is fine, but landing is even better. How you do that on a flat top without arrestor hooks?

4. Operation from a carrier requires an extreme level of resistance to salty environment, for all involved hardware.

5. Stress to the airframe and landing gear for carrier operations is extreme too.

Navalized Su-57 can be very similar to conventional one me thinks, but I doubt conventional ones could operate from a carrier. AF and navy have separate structures after all.

Now, all the anti Project 23000 Shtorm trolls can go to cry by the corners. Also the VTOL/STOVL fighter trolls.  

Well, in fact it seems they are pushing for the STOVL, that points (sadly) rather to half-arsed carriers than to Shtorms!

GarryB wrote:

I am referring to the concept itself, not to the angled deck which is a single feature that can be good or bad depending on the implementation

I don't understand. The fixed wing conventional (ski jump) takeoff but arrested landing concept? With a straight deck you need two full sized decks, but with angled deck you can operate with one deck... sounds like the simpler smaller single deck carrier is good enough for the job.

New carriers take a lot of time and planning.... not to mention the requirement for a lot of land and sea based support needed for carrier operations... it takes 20 years from the decision to build to actually getting something operational, and going by todays practise the cost of the air wing is going to be very very expensive anyway... even without the carrier and the cruisers and destroyers that will operate with it.

The whole idea of an AWACS sounds vulnerable, but it can see anything approaching and direct ships and aircraft to intercept before they become a real problem... having what appears to be a big vulnerable AWACS platform is actually much safer than not having one and relying on luck to detect a low flying threat...  by the same token a huge carrier sounds vulnerable, but actually having it extends the reach and range of sight of the surface vessels and offers several extra rings of defence that another ship just can't do.

So putting up a half dozen fighters to do the same job as one AWACS platform... makes you wonder why NATO bothers with those big expensive Sentry aircraft it has... I mean what a huge target... just having some F-35s flying around would be much better...

So they are saving money by not having to develop a bigger ship, or modern catapult systems (they had steam cats decades ago, so developing new cats.... even steam ones would be expensive and time consuming), and accepting the penalty of a much more expensive plane they are buying off the shelf of lower performance than they would have gotten if they had just made the typhoon a naval plane.

..the basic documents for shipbuilders are the state defense order and the state program of armaments, and only there it is stipulated which ships will be built for the Russian Navy. "As soon as some of these documents appear or disappear, it's worth returning to this topic," the source said.
http://www.ng.ru/news/625563.html?print=Y

As of 2018 a number of recent developments within the Russian military, and the Russian Navy in particular, could well lead to the revival of the Yak-141 program. As Russia’s economy began a slow recovery from the year 2000, and the country sought to enhance its military capabilities under a massive modernisation drive initiated in 2008, a number of partially completed Soviet era weapons program have been revived. From the late 2000s Chief of the Russian General Staff General Nikolai Makarov has strongly advocated the need for light carriers to enter service in the country’s navy, with four such carriers planned under a joint project with France from which Paris withdrew in 2014. Russia has since worked to develop the capabilities to built light carrier warships domestically, and according to Navy Deputy Commander in Chief Viktor Bursuk the country is set to begin construction of the first of these ships in 2020. Two carrier variants are currently planned, which have been referred to as the “universal amphibious assault ship” and “large amphibious assault ship.” The first of these are, according to Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov, set to enter service in the early 2020s, and the heavier class reportedly could displace up to 40,000 tons.
With the resurrection of a light carrier program, the Russian Navy will for the first time since the USSR’s fall have need for advanced VTOL capable fighter aircraft. With a number of states which field light carriers set to acquire F-35B short takeoff vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft for their warships, Japan’s Izumo Class, the United States’ Wasp and America Class assault ships and Italy’s Cavour and Giuseppe Garibaldi among them, Russia may well follow this trend and attempt to induct a fighter with yet more sophisticated VTOL capabilities. With the Yak-141 already in late prototype stages at the time of its cancellation, research and development costs to move the design to a production ready stage would be significantly reduced. With a significant demand for low cost aircraft capable of operating from light carriers, with China, Thailand and South Korea all potential clients which field such warships, the Yak-141 could also potentially become a major export success for Russian military aviation. With China currently building three 075 amphibious assault ships, massive 40,000 ton vessels each capable of deploying up to 30 aircraft, Beijing is likely to be a major client for an advanced Russian VTOL fighter - with export sales subsiding the cost of starting the program and making it considerably more cost effective.
The VTOL fighters are set to serve as an effective force multiplier for any carrier strike group which fields them, with the aircraft likely to deploy some of Russia's most capable standoff weapons allowing them to threaten enemy aircraft and warships at extreme ranges. Considering that the original Yak-141 was to be equipped with R-77 air to air missiles, long range platforms and the most advanced in the Russian inventory at the time, it remains possible that a modern adaptation of the platform could deploy lethal new K-77 air to air missiles - platforms based on the R-77 but extensively modified for deployment by next generation fighters and retains an unparalleled 193km strike range and a high degree of precision. State of the art anti ship missiles far surpassing those fielded by Western carrier based fighters such as the F-35B,  weapons such as the Mach 3 Kh-41 and 300km range Kh-35U and P-800, allow even relatively small carrier warships the size of the Dokdo or Mistral Class to deploy lethal firepower and thus gain an asymmetric advantage at sea by fielding even a small contingent of Yak-141 jets. Equipping the fighter with advanced AESA radars based on those recently developed for the MiG-35 and Su-57 also remains a significantly possibility. Considering the high potential for exports and Russia’s considerable need for these aircraft for its own navy should the country’s light carrier program be seen through, the completion of the Yak-141 program and finally inducting the advanced fighter into active service, most likely with a number of modernisations applied, represents a potentially highly feasible project and one which there is a good chance the Russian military will pursue.
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/70726

LMFS wrote:New light carrier proposal from Krylov:

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5476445

LMFS wrote:New light carrier proposal from Krylov:

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5476445

Isos wrote:

LMFS wrote:New light carrier proposal from Krylov:

http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5476445

They could have allowed more space for launching the fighters. They almost start on the ski-jump while they could start 50m behind where the mig is on the lift.

They didn't correct the mistakes from K. It's a shame that they propose that. It clearly shows a lack of work. But still better than the chinese copy, indian copy of Vikramanditya  or even K.

Apparently it's meant for export, so it'll use gas turbine engines.

Also, by the time this hypothetic carrier is launched, Chinese may have even better project for export.

PapaDragon wrote:
This is not helicopter/STOVL carrier.

Where is that one?

eehnie wrote:
1.- This is not explicitly said. Neither if it is for full load or partial load. Data for full load is more habitual.

2.- In every aircraft carrier with 3 or 4 take-off points, the take off-trajectory of some of them cuts the landing runway.

3.- Landing distance is shorter than not assisted take-off distance that is habitually given for maximum load. As example, landing never is done with maximum load because of the consum of fuel during the fly.

4.- Most of the aditional structural efforts of the variants for aircraft carrier have been until now to make the aircraft to reduce its take-off distance, in order to be able to operate from aircraf carriers. All them are included in the main variant of the Su-57.

5.- The simultaneous designs help to make the Su-57 compatible with the Project 23000 Shtorm aircraft carriers. It would be very negligent to have not mutual feedback and influence. Certainly, this has been happening in approximately, the last 10 years.

6.- At this point a navalized Su-57 would include solutions for storage and little more. But with the potential use of standard aircrafts based on land this becomes less important. As example. When you have a specific aircraft to operate from aircraft carriers it is important to store 90 of them instead of 60, because there are not aditional land based specific units. But when standard aircrafts are used frin aurcraft carriers, near the mainland the aircraft fleet of the aircraft carrier can become 60 (carrier based) + 60 (land based), because the aircraft carrier can be used by land based aircrafts as transit and maybe supply base. Still it is an advantage to be be considered, that can be also useful for land based Su-57.

7.- The 300 m runway lenght, means the availability of the main variant of the Su-57 ifor use from aircraft carriers. This is the most important part. With it, the Su-57 in its main variant has not competitor, not in cost, neither in performance. VTOL/STOVL solutions will be underperformers and more expensive.

9.- August 2018, and there is not alternative project publicly known to the Project 23000 that can become its competitor. Providing the use of the Su-57 from aircraft carriers, the Project 23000 Shtorm has not competitor. Abysmal performance difference.

PapaDragon wrote:
This is not helicopter/STOVL carrier. Where is that one?

A number of reports have also indicated that Russia is considering developing a specialised fighter jet to operate from the hull of its carriers, either the larger warships alone or both types of vessel, which could be heavily based on the Yak-141 vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) aircraft. These fighters could potentially field cutting edge Russian fifth generation technologies including Phazotron Zhuk AE active electronically scanned array radars and K-77 air to air missiles - allowing them to effectively fulfil a fleet defence role and complement the integrated air defence networks of Russia’s carrier strike groups. https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/70771

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Apparently it's meant for export, so it'll use gas turbine engines.

Storm offered to India was a CVN, so nuclear propulsion can be exported.

Also, by the time this hypothetic carrier is launched, Chinese may have even better project for export.

They r not even remotely short of $, & will be building CV/Ns for their navy 1st, not for Brazil, Argentina, Thailand, Turkey, Pakistan  & certainly not for India.