Russian midget submarines

Russia bringing back Cold War mini-subs, report says
By James RogersPublished July 11, 2015

Russia is reportedly bringing back a fleet of Cold War-era mini-submarines, a move that could ramp up tensions with the West.

Moscow is set to bring back the Cold War-era Piranha-class midget subs as part of a $350 million military spending spree, according to the U.K.’s Daily Express. An unnamed source told the newspaper that Russian leader Vladimir Putin is “breathing life into many old programmes and thinks subs are an effective way of getting what he wants militarily.”

Relations between Russia and the West have sunk to post-Cold War lows after Moscow's annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula and its support for a pro-Russian insurgency in eastern Ukraine.

Amid these simmering tensions, Russian submarine activities are under close scrutiny, particularly in the Baltic. Last year the Swedish military launched a major hunt for a suspected underwater intruder in the Stockholm archipelago, its largest anti-sub operation since the end of the Cold War. Defense experts cited Russia as the likely culprit, although Moscow denied its involvement.

The incident nonetheless prompted speculation that a Russian Piranha sub was involved.

Described as virtually undetectable, the covert subs can lay mines and fire torpedoes. The diesel-electric submarines displace a mere 390 tons when submerged and can carry nine crew and six combat divers, according to the U.S. Naval Institute.

The Piranha submarines could pose a “significant threat” to the U.K. if they enter British waters, according to the source interviewed by the Daily Express.

However, Dmitry Gorenburg, an analyst at naval research specialist CNA, is skeptical about the prospect of Piranha subs resurfacing in Russia's military. "The two remaining subs of this class have been out of service for more than 15 years," he told FoxNews.com, in an e-mail, adding that it would be a major task to refurbish them. "The subs were originally withdrawn because they were seen as difficult to use and too large for their purpose," he added.

Gorenburg believes that Russia is more likely to build new midget subs at some point in the future, rather then revamping old ones.

Washington has been keeping a close eye on Moscow’s military moves. On Thursday President Obama's nominee to lead the military's Joint Chiefs of Staff warned that Russia poses the world's greatest threat to U.S. national security. "If you want to talk about a nation that could pose an existential threat to the United States, I'd have to point to Russia. And if you look at their behavior, it's nothing short of alarming," Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford told senators at his confirmation hearing.

Other senior military figures have voiced their concerns about Russia. In April Adm. William Gortney, head of U.S. Northern Command, warned that Russia’s modern military is now “far more capable” than that of the Soviet Union, saying Moscow is “messaging” the United States that “they’re a global power.” Gortney disclosed to Congress in March that Russian heavy bombers flew more "out-of-area patrols" last year than in any year "since the Cold War." The following month, he affirmed that Russia’s “long-range” flights are rising – and occurring in places they haven’t before, like near Canada, Alaska and the English Channel.

On July 4 two pairs of Russian bombers flew off the coast of California and Alaska -- forcing the Air Force to scramble fighter jets to intercept both flights, defense officials told Fox News.

The Russian Embassy in Washington D.C. has not yet responded to a request for comment on this story from FoxNews.com.

Undated photo of the Soviet-era Project 865 Piranha-class submarine. (U.S. Naval Institute)

The type was designed at the famous Malachite design bureau by Chief designer Chief Designer L.V.Chernopyatov in the 1970s and entered limited service in the late 1980s. Of classic Soviet double-hull construction, the inner hulls were built from Titanium. After protracted development the two units built were in and out of service during the 1990s. Victims of the defense cuts of the 1990s both hulls were decommissioned and scrapped.

Specifications
Length: 28.2 meters
Beam: 4.74m meter
Displacement: 218 tons surfaced, 287tns submerged
Speed: Maximum 6.28 kts surfaced, 6.5kts submerged
Operating depth: 180m (200m max)
Endurance : 10 days, 603nm at cruising speed of 4kts surfaced, 260nm at 4kts submerged
Armament: (inner tubes) 2 x 533mm (21") torpedo tubes for sub-size 400mm Latouche anti-ship torpedoes which swim out.
SDVs: (outer tubes) 2 x Sirena-UM Swimmer Delivery Vehicles, or 6-8 'Proton' diver propulsion devices
Crew: 3
Special Forces: 6

GarryB wrote:

The piranha family of coastal mini subs...



Piranha-T (above) looks more modern than the older one (below):

Defence of coastal andsea frontiers by cover patrol, destroying, of single surface ships and vessels, landing and recovering of commandoes, mine laying, reconnaissance at the appointed areas and guidance of striking forces on enemy forces, electronic reconnaissance, evacuation of people and material values from the areas of local collisions, destroying of enemy coastal targets located both near the shoreline and at the distant areas.

Specifications

Displacement (normal) 720 (760) m3
Length 55 (57) m
Beam 6.4 m
Maximum diving depth 300 m
Endurance 20 days
Underwater speed:
full 15.0 (20.5) knots
cruising 4 knots
Complement 9
Combat swimmers 6
Cruising range (cruising speed) 2000 nm
Continuous submerged range 1200 nm
Fuel cell power capacity 15000 kW h
Diesel generators 2 x 350 kW
Propulsion motor 1 x 900 (1700) kW
Armament
533 mm torpedoes, missiles 4
400 torpedoes 8
Mines 12
Self-defense devices 4

Project P-550
Small submarine


Defence of coastal andsea frontiers by cover patrol, destroying, of single surface ships and vessels, landing and recovering of commandoes, mine laying, reconnaissance at the appointed areas and guidance of striking forces on enemy forces, electronic reconnaissance, evacuation of people and material values from the areas of local collisions, destroying of enemy coastal targets located both near the shoreline and at the distant areas.
Specifications
Displacement (normal) 610 (650) m3
Length 49 (51) m
Beam 6.4 m
Maximum diving depth 300 m
Endurance 20 days
Submerged speed:
full 15.5 (21.0) knots
economic 4 knots
Complement 9
Combat swimmers 6
Range 2000 nm
Continuous submerged range 200 nm
Diesel generators 2 x 350 kW
Propulsion motor 1 x 900 (1700) kW
Armament
533 mm torpedoes, missiles 4
400 mm torpedoes 8
Mines

Piranha-T
Small submarine


Defence of coastal andsea frontiers by cover patrol, destroying, of single surface ships and vessels, landing and recovering of commandoes, mine laying, reconnaissance at the appointed areas and guidance of striking forces on enemy forces, electronic reconnaissance, evacuation of people and material values from the areas of local collisions, destroying of enemy coastal targets located both near the shoreline and at the distant areas.
Developer
Specifications
Displacement (normal) 245 m3
Length 30 m
Beam 4.7 m
Draft 3.9 m
Endurance 20 days
Submerged speed:
full 12 knots
economic 4 knots
Complement 3
Combat swimmers 6
Continuous submerged range 260 nm
Range 2000 nm
Maximum diving depth 200 m
Diesel generator 1 x 160 kW
Propolsion motor 1 x 250 kW
Armament
533 mm torpedoes, missiles 2
400 mm torpedoes 8
Mines 4

Piranha
Small submarine


Cover transportation in submerged condition, landing and recovering of commandoes, patrol in shallow waters near shore, fighting against vessels and single surface ships, minelaying, reconnaissance.
Specifications
Displacement (normal) 220 m3
Length 30 m
Beam 4.7 m
Maximum diving depth 200 m
Endurance 10 days
Submerged speed:
full 6.6 knots
economic 4 knots
Complement 3
Combat swimmers 6
Range 1000 nm
Continuous submerged range 260 nm
Diesel generator 1 x 160 kW
Propolsion motor 1 x 65 kW
Armament
44 mm torpedoes 2
Mines 2

Russian "piranha" with VNEY survive 12 days under water

Designed by Russian small non-nuclear submarine of the family "piranha" project P-750Б with air-independent (anaerobic) power plant (VNEU) is able to stay under water for up to 12 days, told RIA Novosti chief designer of "Malachite" Igor Karavaev.

"On only one battery boat can not go more than three days, and with the use of VNEY — up to 12 days at a speed of four knots economic speed. Theoretically, all this time it can stay underwater, but the submarine must be periodically surface to determine the location, the reception of the radio session," — said the expert.

According to him, developed "Malachite" VNEY differs from the existing foreign anaerobic plants based on fuel cells or Stirling engines.

"Here a gas turbine operating in a closed cycle, that is, is stored on Board supply of liquid oxygen in cryogenic containers. Oxygen is supplied to the turbine as oxidizer and fuel used is diesel. Produced by the turbogenerator, electric current is used as a diagnostic system and movement. Current is supplied to the main motor and provides the movement of the submarine," said the designer.

Karavayev noted high automatization and low noise design of the submarine, the crew of which is estimated at 15-20 people, and have a displacement of 1,400 tons. A conceptual design of a submarine implies the existence of lock chamber, capable at once secretly to take and launch six divers.

Submarine family "piranha" project P-750Б can be built, according to the designer, in several variants, for example, attack with missiles "Caliber", which would be launched horizontally under water, special purpose (underwater special forces on Board) and as a mine layer.

https://vpk.name/news/303836_rossiiskaya_piranya_s_vneu_vyiderzhit_12_sutok_pod_vodoi.html

which makes me think this is intended for export and for low cost use (NPPs are not cheap).

I want to know does Russia build small submarines? I think small subs have their advantages of low cost and stealthy small size; it seems like it would be a good market to sell small submarines to poor countries that can't afford larger diesel electric attack submarines like Cuba, Venezuela, Thailand and a few others.

GarryB wrote:

I want to know does Russia build small submarines? I think small subs have their advantages of low cost and stealthy small size; it seems like it would be a good market to sell small submarines to poor countries that can't afford larger diesel electric attack submarines like Cuba, Venezuela, Thailand and a few others.

They do build small subs and specialist vessels, but mostly for specific roles.

Smaller subs are generally of limited speed and endurance and are not really comparable to full sized subs in most regards... the Piranha class of subs, which are rather small sized vessels capable of 4-6 knots on a good day so you don't want to have to have them as your only sub... the Soviets used to have a class of sub to carry rescue subs around, but not one to carry mini subs around which as I said have low speed and limited endurance compared with larger subs.

The endurance for the Piranha subs, which the Soviets called LOSOS was about 10 days with a crew of 9 or so.

Of course these subs were not low cost because they were made of titanium so they were not magnetic and magnetic mines and MAD detectors would have trouble finding them... they were going to make 12 but ended up only making two.