Alexei Navalny case

So uh, did anyone verify if Navalny talked to a fsb agent or the person was one to begin with?

I'm presuming the answer is - no.

PhSt wrote:Here comes the NATzO fakestream media to proliferate Navalny's latest drama  

Just an F'ing pathetic show. The whole thing is fabricated nonsense Konstantin Kudryavtsev, told him the Novichok had been placed in a pair of Mr Navalny's underpants.

Of course. Throw in some bathroom humor to get that reaction from the western public. Just like the bullshit lie about Russia stealing the toilets out of the Ukrainian patrol boats that they seized.

actual BBC headline
Ukraine accuses Russia of returning ships 'stripped of toilets

The fucktards don't realize that the underpants BS kills their whole novichoke drivel deader than it was. Fabric will
absorb more of any substance (that can adhere to a surface) than a solid surface. So the dose that would have
been planted on the underpants would have killed the clown instantly.

If novichoke is to be absorbed through skin then it cannot be lipophobic. It needs to be able to dissolve through cell
walls (dead or alive) that are made of fatty acids. So the novichoke in the typical cotton underpants fabric would
have migrated to Navalny's skin in larger amounts than a purely hydrophylic compound. But even a hydrophylic compound
would still transfer to the skin from the underpants.

This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

mr_hd wrote:This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

I don't think you have too much future here, maybe you want to take all that retarded BS somewhere else

mr_hd wrote:This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

All right Vann second account, no need to be stupid

If for some odd reason you aren't another Vann or ultimate warrior or Ultron, I should add - this is rather saddest attempt at trying to expose Russia. The phone number Navalny claimed is the perp is a total of 1 month old.

https://www.stalkerzone.org/lessons-from-aum-shinrikyo-for-experts-on-navalnys-poisoning/

A dose of realism

Hole wrote:https://www.stalkerzone.org/lessons-from-aum-shinrikyo-for-experts-on-navalnys-poisoning/

A dose of realism

The alleged novichoke may have a formula similar to Sarin but that does not imply it has similar lethality. We have already seen
the alleged maker of this strategic grade nerve agent give the numbers on what is lethal to a human based on per kg of weight.
No dose that Navalny could have been exposed to with all the smearing on surfaces and fabrics would have been small enough to leave
him alive. It would take only a few micrograms of novichoke to put him in convulsions. If he did not get the symptoms
of nerve damage from this neurotoxin, then he was never exposed to it.

The above article gives a good evaluation of the symptoms, including temporary blindness for those lucky enough to have received
a low enough dose.

Navalny is not a lawyer unless you count mail in course participation in a law-associated course as being certified to be a lawyer.
Navalny never passed any bar exam equivalent in Russia and was never a registered lawyer. This is the same sort of propaganda
as was used hype up the "civil society" credentials of Magnitsky who was called a lawyer as well. Magnitsky was never more than
an accountant and a rotten one working for the crook Borwder.

What the heck is an financial activist? Someone who takes acitvely in finances from any source willing to give him something?

LMFS wrote:

mr_hd wrote:This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

I don't think you have too much future here, maybe you want to take all that retarded BS somewhere else

I do not think it is up to you to decide about my future, thank you very much.

PS. Russia needs critical thinking and opposition. Country has huge history of bad, dictator like leaders that made tons of mistakes that were payed in lives, lives or real people. And I do love history in general and Russian too...
In my work have couple of Russian colleagues, all are young, well educated, middle class let's say, from urban background. Neither one has good opinion about direction in which Russia goes, nor they see any time soon improvement - so there it is, something is going bad (and yes I am aware there is also negative pressure form West, there are plenty of countries that would not like to see Russia stable and strong). That is how things are done there. Particularly this case is clear and all cards are on Putin. So far he is losing very badly.

miketheterrible wrote:

mr_hd wrote:This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

All right Vann second account, no need to be stupid

If for some odd reason you aren't another Vann or ultimate warrior or Ultron, I should add - this is rather saddest attempt at trying to expose Russia.  The phone number Navalny claimed is the perp is a total of 1 month old.

I am neither of those nicks you mentioned above.

This case is pretty much clear, it does not matter if Navalny is telling true or not, the point is Putin and Russia do look very bad - and facts on the ground are that Putin systematically destroyed opposition in order to consolidate power. I understand sometimes that is needed. However he is not having any plan to retire, so the older he gets, the more "improvisations" and high risk steps are needed so there would come more errors... This case is cementing sanctions - which is bad for Russia, image of the country etc. But it gives more power to Putin domestically, less reasons to follow any rule and for him actually more power and that is the systematic problem for the country, Russia is much more than one person, any person.

https://www.stalkerzone.org/torn-to-shreds-russia-has-proved-its-technological-superiority/
https://www.stalkerzone.org/the-pace-of-russian-import-substitution-began-to-irritate-the-west/
Sanctions are soooo bad for Russia.

Russia doesn´t look bad compared to western countries that invaded whole continents and killed millions. But one guy who is payed by the west is much more important then these millions.
Russia as a country and Putin personaly could do anything the want, the west would look down at them because they need this to feel superior.

This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

This case shows the western media are making up stories against Russia and Putin for their own reasons.

With no access to any information how could the Russians possibly investigate this so called case?

Lets try it...  We have a mutual friend and that friend is now here and they have been poisoned. They said you did it and after I checked them over I have found evidence of traces of a deadly poison and this friend said it was you. You must now investigate what happened and come out with the truth that you did it. No I can't hand over any information at all because you will find out how I caught you and next time you will be much sneakier and might not get caught the next time...

How on earth do to investigate the case when you don't have any access to any evidence that proves anything took place... when our mutual friend saw the doctor where you live they couldn't tell exactly what was wrong but didn't find any evidence of poisoning.

Good god man use your brain... Navalny is a NOTHING... if you put "other" on a ballot box they would probably get more votes in Russia than Navalny gets at election time...

Putin doesn't need to get rid of him... in fact the guy is such a loser I would say it is in Putins interests to keep him around... imagine if the west got someone who was even nearly competent and actually became a threat?

It would be important for Putin to not get rid of Navalny because he has zero credibility in Russia... I would probably get more votes than he does.

The point is that as usual the west does not give a shit about Russians... they want the land and the resources, they could care less about the people... it does not matter if Navalny has 1 percent or 10 percent... he will never be popular in Russia.... that is not his purpose... he is Putins rival... Putins nemesis... this is all about taking shots at Putin. The banning of Russian athletes is the same... they couldn't care about drugs or sports or athletes... it was all about banning Putin from sports events...

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

The fact that they continue to try to demonise and discredit Putin tells me whatever he is doing... it is just right... they are desperately trying to get rid of him in the hopes that some sell out pussy like Navalny will take the reigns of power... they want a Yeltsin to turn back the clock and fuck Russia over again and re-open Russia for whole sale purchasing instead of having to pay retail prices... the huge irony is that if they ever succeeded... which is fairly remote because they are fucking awful at this... but if they did succeed... the likely replacements are more like Stalin that Yeltsen... not clever, but simple and brutal.... the opposite of Putin but not the way they want... super hardline anti west.

PS. Russia needs critical thinking and opposition.

I disagree... I think the path they are taking is the best for Russia and the reason the opposition is pathetically weak is because the alternative choices and paths are so clearly wrong.

You don't need a strong opposition when the people in power are basically getting most things right.

Country has huge history of bad, dictator like leaders that made tons of mistakes that were payed in lives, lives or real people.

That is very true, but despite Putin being called a dictator he gets elected each time by the Russian people... they choose him... and who else should decide?

Replacing him so he does not become a dictator is as ridiculous as telling your children they can't have the icecream flavour they like because they might get addicted to that flavour and never try any others. Well who cares if they only ever order one flavour of icecream... it is their choice... why do you think you or I should get any say?

They are likely more aware of their history than we are.

In my work have couple of Russian colleagues, all are young, well educated, middle class let's say, from urban background. Neither one has good opinion about direction in which Russia goes, nor they see any time soon improvement - so there it is, something is going bad (and yes I am aware there is also negative pressure form West, there are plenty of countries that would not like to see Russia stable and strong). That is how things are done there. Particularly this case is clear and all cards are on Putin. So far he is losing very badly.

So what solutions do they think would fix everything and make Russia best friends with the west?

Are they old enough to remember the 1990s?

Maybe if they care so much about Russia they might want to stay in Russia and do something about it...

But lets ask the people of the Ukraine because they are clearly living the dream of western utopia...

I know an Indian lady and she thinks India was better under British rule. Mainly because she is christian and thinks the other religions there are "damn natives" who are ignorant and don't appreciate what the white man did for them...

This case is pretty much clear, it does not matter if Navalny is telling true or not, the point is Putin and Russia do look very bad

If you are looking at the facts on the ground how on earth could you even consider what Navalny said was anything like the truth.

Actually trying to poison him TWICE would actually make him a credible opposition figure the western media claims him to be...

and facts on the ground are that Putin systematically destroyed opposition in order to consolidate power.

First of all, just because Navalny is a  does not mean there is no opposition in Russia... there is more choice in Russia than in the US... instead of democrat or republican, in Russia there is Putins party, the communists which are normally second place with about 20% of the vote and the nationalists like Zhirinovsky and his like who normally get about 10%. The fact that Navalny gets western funding and goes on western media to make his claims makes him look like the foreign tool that he is... in fact the way that he acts there is little to no chance of him appearing as anything else in Russia to the Russian public.

In the west of course western media make him look like a great hero fighting the evil Putin...

However he is not having any plan to retire,

He could be replaced next election if there was a better candidate... the fact that there is no better candidate is why he keeps winning.

so the older he gets, the more "improvisations" and high risk steps are needed so there would come more errors...

Looking at Biden why are you criticising Putin for his age?

This case is cementing sanctions - which is bad for Russia, image of the country etc.

Why would Russia give a fuck about its western image... for fucks sake the US and the Ukraine just vetoed a UN declaration trying to ban the glorification of NAZISM and you are worried that Russia looks bad because of Navalny?

The more sanctions the better in my opinion... the best and quickest way so screw Russia would be for it to become best mates with the west... the west is evil and a terrible influence on all countries it taints.

But it gives more power to Putin domestically, less reasons to follow any rule and for him actually more power and that is the systematic problem for the country, Russia is much more than one person, any person.

You talk about power... that vote against Nazism... most of the US cock sucking countries abstained so as not to upset daddy... only a few EU countries voted for banning glorification of Nazism... including Serbia... For GOODNESS SAKE... GERMANY ABSTAINED ON A VOTE ABOUT THE GLORIFICATION OF NAZISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Germany who wants to be treated like the leader of Europe...

What benefits are you expecting for Russia if Putin started to be the wests bitch and started doing as he was told?

Stop competing with US gas sales to Europe... pump all the gas you sell to Europe through the Ukraine to prop up their fucked up economy... withdraw from Syria and south ossetia and Abkhazia and Nagorno Karabak and every other country you have interests in... stop making hypersonic and nuclear weapons, don't make anything bigger than a frigate, stop making subs... modify your northern ports so US coast guard ships can operate from them to police the North Sea Route for trade between Asia and the EU...

I can see how the US and the west would love that... but how do you think that would benefit Russians.

You do realise when Putin steps down the most likely replacement will be a communist who wont be anything near as nice as Putin... and instead of faggots like Navalny complaining about having a sore tummy... they will just start dying.

No... you are right... maybe Putin should retire....

mr_hd wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

mr_hd wrote:This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

All right Vann second account, no need to be stupid

If for some odd reason you aren't another Vann or ultimate warrior or Ultron, I should add - this is rather saddest attempt at trying to expose Russia.  The phone number Navalny claimed is the perp is a total of 1 month old.

I am neither of those nicks you mentioned above.

This case is pretty much clear, it does not matter if Navalny is telling true or not, the point is Putin and Russia do look very bad - and facts on the ground are that Putin systematically destroyed opposition in order to consolidate power. I understand sometimes that is needed. However he is not having any plan to retire, so the older he gets, the more "improvisations" and high risk steps are needed so there would come more errors... This case is cementing sanctions - which is bad for Russia, image of the country etc. But it gives more power to Putin domestically, less reasons to follow any rule and for him actually more power and that is the systematic problem for the country, Russia is much more than one person, any person.

Let me rephrase what I initially wrote.

I think you are indeed one of these members as it is nearly verbatim of your diatribe as what they write.

But if you are not a troll, then I will make this very easy for your to understand.

Your colleagues are nobody. Not only that, they obviously left Russia to seek out other opportunities so their intentions for their homeland isn't good to begin with as a person who cares about their home, will work in their home to make it better. They left, so that gives indication that their opinions on the matter is null and void. These colleagues obviously would rather have Russia as a non-sovereign country and follow whatever US demands. As we have already seen this, and when Russia has had good relations with the west, what did it get? Poverty, heavy corruption, lost of territory and friendly neighboring states. Life expectancy dropped, poverty was double than it is now, and local industries down.

What does Russia have now?

- Growing industry thanks to import substitution.
- Growing life expectancy thanks to healthier living and better social structure now.
- Patriotism is on the rise.
- Appraisal of the population is higher with more people returning to Russia than before.
- 12% Debt to GDP compared to western nations where it is 70% and higher
- Reserves higher than most nations
- high demand for domestic consumption than ever before
- Infrastructure investments and modernization not seen since the Soviet times

Really, life is far better under Putin than anyone else. Maybe the nationalists could do a better job, who knows? Communists wouldn't because we already know what happened and the failure of the Soviet Union was on their hands.

So your "colleagues" are ridiculous. But it isn't surprising cause we find all kind of retarded Russians who think their country is crap. Oh well. Since they arent at home, then they cant help ruin it. They can ruin the US or wherever you are.

As for Putin being old and has to go and what not. Well, that is stupid.

So some moron lies, gets funding and help from the west to lie about Russia, and makes up some phone call that never happened with a non existing FSB agent, that Putin should step down cause its embarrassing? That doesn't make sense. I mean, if Navalny was killed, I wouldn't be sad, that is for sure. But Putin has put the west in their place and continues to do the right thing. And guess what? He is younger than even the new US president. He is younger than Modi of India. He is younger than Duterte of the Philippines as example.

Your opinion on the matter shows you don't know what you are talking about, nor do you understand the situation that is happening now.

So, instead of talking nonsense, it may be better to stay quiet and learn or ask questions.

Why should Russia investigate anything pertaining to Crap-valny's claims or those of his NATzO handlers?

First they claimed that novichoke was spread over a soft drink disposable cup at some mall. Now they are claiming
that it was spread on his underwear. And Crap-valny never showed a single symptom of a Sarin-type neurotoxin.
No surprise that NATzO is not sharing any evidence since it has none. All it has is fake stream media lies and
ridiculous "we called the agent that poisoned him" BS. This rubbish shows you how credulous are NATzO
sheeple. Because as everyone knows, phone numbers of secret agents are easy to find....

BTW, the whole "we can't share the evidence with the perps" drivel is pap for retards. NATzO has no
physical evidence from the supposed scene of the crime. It only would have "evidence" from Navanly's
body and clothing that he took with him to Germany. How is this evidence usable to refine future
attacks? In case it is not clear, if novichoke was used then its users would already have precise
data on the dosage necessary to kill.

Also, Putin has faced several other candidates for president during all of his elections. Not one like in the USA. Ralph Nader's
campaign in 2004 was sabotaged by Repug-Democrap controlled electoral committees who prevent his name appearing on the
ballot in many districts. That is called a mafia racket and not a democratic process. All the big show about how the leader
of the Repugs or Democraps is chosen in some convention does not remove the fact that they are a leader of a single party
and not the equivalent of several candidates representing different parties. In Russia Putin faces the KPRF, LDPR, and Fair Russia
candidates during elections. There are several other parties, but they cannot rally enough signatures to pass the threshold
for participation in presidential elections.

https://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/225629

The critical point is that unlike the duopoly US political system, if Russian voters get tired of the four big parties they can
choose from about 10 other parties. Americans have zero choice aside from the Repugs and Democraps.

The NATzO fake stream media also pathetically tries to question the legitimacy of Putin's electoral wins by claiming that a 60%
turnout is too low. This is the same fake stream media that goose-steps to the music coming from a country which has
had plenty of 40% turnouts in the past.

Soon at the UN...

flamming_python wrote:
Sad. Stupid martyr complex. This isn't some China occupation of Tibet cause or whatever. Just a retarded government opposed by even more retarded neo-libs like her.

Retarded government?

BliTTzZ wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Sad. Stupid martyr complex. This isn't some China occupation of Tibet cause or whatever. Just a retarded government opposed by even more retarded neo-libs like her.

Retarded government?

Flaming is a commie wannabe. So he doesn't like that Putin is more successful than the communists who brought its own people to its knees.

LMFS wrote:Soon at the UN...

And then some guy in England will tell the world that "Putin can launch novichok underwear at europe in 20 minutes!"

mr_hd wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

mr_hd wrote:This case is very bad, it presents Russia as a horrible pariah state and show however that Putin and his style of governance has huge limits.

Russian soft power with such attacks on opposition is practically non existing. For me this is clear sign that time has come and Putin would have to be removed from the leadership if Russia is supposed to stay stable on long run... He gained too much power and it is not healthy.

All right Vann second account, no need to be stupid

If for some odd reason you aren't another Vann or ultimate warrior or Ultron, I should add - this is rather saddest attempt at trying to expose Russia.  The phone number Navalny claimed is the perp is a total of 1 month old.

I am neither of those nicks you mentioned above.

This case is pretty much clear, it does not matter if Navalny is telling true or not, the point is Putin and Russia do look very bad - and facts on the ground are that Putin systematically destroyed opposition in order to consolidate power. I understand sometimes that is needed. However he is not having any plan to retire, so the older he gets, the more "improvisations" and high risk steps are needed so there would come more errors... This case is cementing sanctions - which is bad for Russia, image of the country etc. But it gives more power to Putin domestically, less reasons to follow any rule and for him actually more power and that is the systematic problem for the country, Russia is much more than one person, any person.

It has nothing to do with Putin. The US and Nato are dead set on warring with Russia. Period. Just imagine if Navalney became president. The US would turn on him in less than 100 days. Why ? Because he's Russian. Navalney is to the right of Putin and would be an easier target than Putin is.

Just look at some of his interviews

Navalny Wouldn't Return Crimea, Considers Immigration Bigger Issue Than Ukraine

Prominent Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny said in an interview this week that he would not return the Crimean Peninsula to Ukraine if he had the power to do so, and that the issue of illegal immigration was more important for Russia than anything happening in neighboring war-torn Ukraine.

The opposition activist, who is under house arrest as part of a criminal investigation, said in the first part of the interview from his home, broadcast Wednesday night, that Crimea — which Russia annexed from Ukraine in March — "will remain part of Russia and will never again in the foreseeable future become part of Ukraine."

Asked by Ekho Moskvy host and editor-in-chief Alexei Venediktov to share his views on the popular slogan among Russian supporters of the annexation — "Crimea is ours" — Navalny initially appeared to evade the question, saying that "Crimea belongs to the people who live in Crimea." When pressed for a direct answer, he added that "Crimea, of course, now de facto belongs to Russia."

@mr_hd

Hope you don't feel picked on but these things have been discussed repeatedly, and to be honest the current state of western propaganda is pathetic.

Novachok is the chemical equivalent of a nuclear weapon... if it was actually used in a fragrance bottle more than one person would be dead... this is a chemical so deadly the smallest drop on your skin should kill you in a matter of minutes... ingest it by drinking it and you should be dead in seconds... not have a sore tummy days later...

By using Novachok as the alleged weapon it is like saying instead of shooting him with a pistol in the back like the victims of Ukrainian political assassinations, they are in effect claiming TOPOL nuclear missiles are being used to target Russians in the UK and on their own soil which is totally ridiculous.

Novachok was designed as a battlefield weapon intended to be dispersed over wide areas and expected to kill most of the people getting any contact with it... tens or hundreds of thousands depending on where it is released.

The idea of using it to kill one specific person is like using a B-52 with 50 x 250kg bombs to do the job...

Made even more fantastic when we are told of the five people that came in to contact with the super deadly poison... the two skripals and the policeman and that guy and his junkie girlfriend... only the junkie girlfriend died... and we are told she had the stuff sprayed all over her directly from a fragrance bottle.

Navalny was supposedly poisoned twice with the stuff and is now fine... we are now told because he is just such a fine specimen of Russian manhood, yet my understanding is that he is an alcoholic drug taking diabetic... but lets not let facts get in the way of a good story...

But even that is a problem... it is not even a very good story... none of the three stories are very compelling at all.

Perhaps with this new perspective you might appreciate the reaction here?

miketheterrible wrote:Flaming is a commie wannabe. So he doesn't like that Putin is more successful than the communists who brought its own people to its knees.

While I fully support my current goverment, I don't agree with you about communists either. Late USSR communists and current communists are different from 50-ies, 60-ies and 70-ies communists.