Alexei Navalny case

Complaints that you are learning to play the game KVS... scary... but also a hint you might be pushing the right buttons....

Well I guess when it comes to hypocrisy then the US is the master, it was taught by a group of practising experts... Europe...

But that does not give the US or EU any rights to criticse... it is clearly not the adult in the room... not even close... unless it is painted red and with horns growing from its head and carrying a long trident like three pronged weapon...

The rest of the world is watching, and they have their own experiences dealing with the west and they know, but Russia showing restraint and poise and integrity actually does matter, because if Russia descends to Americas level for some cheap points or to improve GDP a couple of points trying to win in a clearly fixed game, then the rest of the world will realise that instead of being a real alternative to the shit they have to put up with from the west, that Russia is more of the same then the better the devil you know... lets not try Russian or Chinese shit.

The fact of the matter is that the crap they make is every bit as good as western stuff in most regards, but it is cheaper, and you don't have to sell your soul to the devil to trade with them.

I agree with you, I think it makes Russia look bad when the pull the same shit the US and the west pull.

The irony is that for years the west has blamed Russia for using gas sales as a weapon and the irony is that it hasn't.

Neither Russia nor the Soviets used gas sales to europe as a weapon... the reverse is totally true... demanding other countries follow your laws is a US thing and an EU thing... now that Russia is no longer bound by those stupid international courts based in the EU it is a very good time for Russia...

The EU wants to sanction Russia over Belarus, they want to sanction Russia over Navalny, they want to sanction them over all sorts of things... good... because the more sanctions the more they push away and that is good for Russia and even good for Belarus... and for Navalny... who cares.... he is nothing.

The EU and US can squawk all they like about human rights.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Every nation on this Earth is a hypocrite. I wasn't talking about nations however, I was talking about KVS. But leave it to you, to try and twist the narrative. It's really getting old.

I don't care if Russia does what we do, I rrrrrrrrrrrrealy don't. Just saying if you are to bitch about us doing, don't approve of the Russians doing the exact same shit.

The problem with US is not the hypocrisy per se, is trampling on international law, killing, maiming, applying siege warfare and committing crimes against humanity at will and in general behaving like genocidal maniacs. So the claim that Russia would be the same as US in case they retaliate to sanctions initiated by the West is cringe-worthy and just another attempt to disguise the countless criminal responsibilities of your government and in particular the initiation of brazen acts of war against Russia. If you want to compare the crimes of both countries in the last 20 years you can start when you want, that is going to be an easy one.

LMFS wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Every nation on this Earth is a hypocrite. I wasn't talking about nations however, I was talking about KVS. But leave it to you, to try and twist the narrative. It's really getting old.

I don't care if Russia does what we do, I rrrrrrrrrrrrealy don't. Just saying if you are to bitch about us doing, don't approve of the Russians doing the exact same shit.

The problem with US is not the hypocrisy per se, is trampling on international law, killing, maiming, applying siege warfare and committing crimes against humanity at will and in general behaving like genocidal maniacs. So the claim that Russia would be the same as US in case they retaliate to sanctions initiated by the West is cringe-worthy and just another attempt to disguise the countless criminal responsibilities of your government and in particular the initiation of brazen acts of war against Russia. If you want to compare the crimes of both countries in the last 20 years you can start when you want, that is going to be an easy one.

But this is exactly the sort of delusional bubble reality in which Canadians and Americans (and western Europeans) live. Every TV show, movie, news report in print and media always
harps on the notion that if the west does something wrong, then there are extenuating circumstances and at heart the intentions are good and noble. By contrast, everything that
the un-west does is capricious evil such as the alleged shooting down of the MH-17 by Putin via sneaky Buk system delivery in and out of the eastern Ukraine. The criminal Contras
were called freedom fighters but now they live in almost isolation in northern Nicaragua and "communist dictator" Daniel Ortega has been routinely voted back into office. I recall
an episode of "Airwolf" where the main character outright makes excuses for the My Lai massacre as "US soldiers were under stress" from the Viet Cong. Gee, maybe these precious
dears should not have been in Vietnam in the first place.

And so on, ad nauseam. When I deride the mentality of western MSM consumer sheep, I have a real case. I have been observing this brainwashing 1st hand for decades. The only
reason I am not drinking the same koolaid is because I have had access to the other side of the coin. Take as an example what I see routinely ascribed to life in the USSR: supposedly
Soviet citizens were told where to work and which job to do. This is total fantasy projection. Soviet citizens were only subjected to a 5 year probationary period where they had
to work in a designated fashion for the state. Nobody told them what subjects to study through university or technical institute and after the 5 year period they could work at the
job they wanted. The western population is given censored information from which they extrapolate the "truth". In other words, they live in a propaganda bubble.

The bloody hypocrisy and fraudulent sanctimony of SS is par for the course for a brainwashed lemming without any objective information exposure since birth.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The Russians have broke international law when it suited them, they have killed innocent people in Syria knowingly. This is their first time intervening in this manner so thats the only example to go by, well there is Georgia and they did cause death to innocents there too.  Also I did not bring any of this up....Disguising for my government? Lol. I never did such a thing, if we do shit. I say we do shit. So what the point of that remark? it has nothing to do with what I said at all. Are you bringing this up to score some cheap points?.

Apparently I need to remind you of what I've said. I said, "if you are going to complain about a countries actions do not complain if you want another country to use those actions". It doesn't take a genius to read that sentence and understand the point.

Acting like I am trying to deflect is taking my words out of context and just looking for something that was NEVER there. geez is this how people react when you put out hypocrisy on this forum. That comment was sad, and just a lazy attempt at twisting words to paint a narrative for a point I was never made in the firs place. You literally brought up a completely unrelated thing.

Of course it is related Seig,

You say you do shit just as the rest, which is exactly the problem. For any crime committed by other countries you commit 100, and yet you justify it by thinking that everybody would do the same and that if you are successful and can allow yourselves to do as you please, well, fuck the rest. Realpolitik is universal, being genocidal supremacists is not.

In this case, kvs proposed Russia to simply mirror Western hostility instead of tolerating further provocations. He is not proposing to initiate hostile actions but to answer to them. How is retaliating the same as initiating hostilities? I know legitimate defence is something some Americans struggle to get right, since you frequently invoke it while invading a country (!), but it is actually not that difficult. If the West initiates what accounts for acts of war they should be ready to receive as much in return and it is indeed fully justified for Russia to escalate until it hurts. And the fault for all the shit unchained will squarely lay on the West's shoulders. I hope it is clear now.

Today the green party (lots of people on the payroll of lovely murican institutes, "NGO´s" and so on) in the Bundestag proposed to cut all economic ties with Russia.
Back in 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, the made no such proposal to cut ties with the big brother on the other side of the atlantic. Also after Obongo started killing tens of thousands of people (95% civilians) with drones they did nothing. The same at the beginning of the year after the iranian general was murdered. Excuse: "He was a bad man!"

By the way... that video. EPIC FAIL! You have to be braindead to believe this shit. Hours after they left the hotel some followers of Masha 2% came back, somehow got into the hotel room which was not cleaned...

The NATzO sycophants in Russia are changing their tune. First they claimed the women involved in his poisoning were not present
and didn't exist, and now they are spewing some fiction about what an upstanding woman she is and was working for the FBI for 8 years.
Blah, blah, blah. The point is that she and her friend are key witnesses to the crime and ran off to Germany. Supposedly she even brought a bottle
with novichoke on it which Navalny drank from. If that is not cheesy fabrication, then nothing is. Novichoke is alleged to be worse
than VX in terms of lethality. So even minute traces of it on a bottle would be lethal or at least enough to do the same damage as
was done by Navalny. For those without a clue: poison administered from a surface is not 100% consumed by the victim. Most
of it stays on the surface due to the microphysics of surfaces (again, if some clown thinks this is not correct, then note how much
effort it takes to wash off the soap film from utensils and plates and soap dissolves in water easily, novichoke is likely hydrophobic and
lipophyllic to be able to easily enter the body through the cells of the skin.)

Hole wrote:Today the green party (lots of people on the payroll of lovely murican institutes, "NGO´s" and so on) in the Bundestag proposed to cut all economic ties with Russia.
Back in 2003, after the invasion of Iraq, the made no such proposal to cut ties with the big brother on the other side of the atlantic. Also after Obongo started killing tens of thousands of people (95% civilians) with drones they did nothing. The same at the beginning of the year after the iranian general was murdered. Excuse: "He was a bad man!"

By the way... that video. EPIC FAIL! You have to be braindead to believe this shit. Hours after they left the hotel some followers of Masha 2% came back, somehow got into the hotel room which was not cleaned...  

The Greens are scum everywhere they are. Here in Canada they are composed of ex-Conservative party members. The Conservative Party of Canada
thinks climate change is a hoax and that environmentalists are commies out to destroy their beloved laissez-faire capitalism. Given their behaviour in
Europe such as the sabotage of the Superphenix reactor program in France, and the example of total, demented Russophobia you cite, they are likely
Trojan operations created by NATzO elites to corrupt the left. The same is clearly at play with Antifa and BLM, which are sponsored to the tune of
billions of dollars from corporate sources. Why would capitalists finance their supposed enemies? Clearly these are stooges and not enemies.
The commie revolution in Russia in 1917 was also financed by western capitalist elites. Leftism is nothing but a mask to con the gullible.

I don't usually get involved in these "who has the biggest dick or is the biggest dick quarrels" but one argument for a multi-polar world is that what standards applies to one country should apply to all.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:
He proposed Russia use its natural resources in a way that defines economic warfare, but he also complains when the US does such things. That is all I said, that is hypocrisy.

1. I have told people, I do not care if you want to criticize the US, I have told Garry this for example many times. Feel free to my only thing is be objective etc apply the same standard.

In this case you are saying, what It's okay if it's done in defense, okay that's fine. I can respect someone's moral opinion matters, the Russians have violated rules when it suits them however. Acting as if they are innocent if just plain silly. You are wrong in your view imo but that's my opinion. I understand Russian forum = Russian bias, Would be the same way on a Pro US forum.

Here is where I frankly find you're being biased, I find your logic acceptable IF Russia has never broken a law for its benefit that wasn't out of defense as you say. The thing is they have done this and the SECOND you break one international law for your personal gain you can no longer hide behind the defense you are claiming. Oh I have zero problems if a country decides to strike back the only thing is to be ready for what may come back your way.

Once you step past that line there is no going back you cannot sit there and cry wolf when you yourself have broken said rules. That's the mentality of a child, you can argue the levels behind it but that's all. Of course, this is mere opinion and that's mine, like it or not.

In the end, Russia isn't an innocent country and I will not sit here and pretend otherwise, is the US innocent? Naw. I have never defended any morally wrong crimes, I was against the wars, I was against Libya, hell I was even against Syria.

Remember buddy the Russians have filled body bags with innocents, sure we have more but that's because we have been at it longer.

That is a load of fallacies piled onto another, typical US feel-good stretching of reality. You are implying Russia has no grounds to criticize US since they are not flawlessly innocent. This is total crap, I don't care what hypocritical moral grounds you base this into, but in law there is a principle of proportionality. It means, the punishment is proportional to the crime and if you are a serial killer or war criminal you don't get away with it because society is unfair and in the end nobody is free from sin. That is BS one, which is a big, brazenly disingenuous one. BS two, you claim Russia is trampling on international law too and implying they would do the same than US if they could, but you of course have no proof, and you even have the cheek to present as evidence unproven events in wars you created and Russia had to react to... respect!

If you have any evidence of those crimes, present them. Oh, I forgot they are surely too secret to be shown...

PS: of course Russia is entitled to engage in economic warfare, when economic warfare has been declared on them! Really...

franco wrote:I don't usually get involved in these "who has the biggest dick or is the biggest dick quarrels" but one argument for a multi-polar world is that what standards applies to one country should apply to all.

Tell US, they openly claim their right to call the shots and live beyond the rules of international law...

The problem with the monopolar world is that the US and the EU run the international organisations and generally make the international rules, but those rules are guidelines or general rules of thumb when it comes to their actions and the letter of the law if any other country violates them... and I mean violate as in rape...

International law is a set of rules the west ignores for itself but uses to punish others who get in its way. Certain friends of the west can ignore international law completely.... and international law is judged by basically the west, Russia and China... nobody else gets a say.

There are no African or central or south american countries on the permanent UNSC... certainly none with any power or veto... it would be a joke but few would find it funny.

The EU and UK are going to destroy each other and by sticking to the US they will go down with the US dollar...

So Micron of France had a telephone call with Putin and claimed that French "experts" validated the presence of novichoke.

1) Without giving an exact chemical description of novichoke this is all retarded fantasy fiction. And it is a joke that
Deutschland refuses to hand over samples to Russia for analysis but spread alleged samples to other NATzO members.
This is a clear propaganda ploy since the French tests supposedly "back up" Smerkel's BS claims. That's like some schoolyard
punks using each other to back up some argument. Yeah, real impartiality there... Anyway, Smerkel is proving that Deutschland
is Russia's enemy.

2) Measuring something (unknown) in a sample from Navalny (assuming it was real) establishes precisely zero as to who
supposedly poisoned this seditionist clown. Micron, Smerkel, etc. are all engaged in "proof by assertion" and retarded
one at that: they claim to have measured this novichoke fantasy chemical and then claim that this "proves" Putin did
it. Clearly, logic is not something that these NATzO quislings of the yanquis are using. Measurement of anything does
not prove who or what put it there.

So NATzO is on another tour of Russia sanctions and hurling ultimatums to Russia. Russia is giving it the middle finger.
NATzO will never be able to prove anything regarding Navalny. They thoroughly discredited themselves with this
novichoke theater and are not even trying to be serious about following any investigation that does not involve
non sequitur inferences.

Navalny's "recovery" photo-ops prove that this case is a fraud:

1) It was claimed he had severe problems with breathing, but there is no evidence of any trachial incision that is routine to help people with
severe breathing problems.

2) It was claimed that he was in a coma for over over two weeks.   But you see him sitting in a lotus position and walking down some stairs.  This
is not possible since two weeks of hard core inaction is enough to atrophy the leg muscles enough to prevent both walking and extreme leg positions.
This obvious fraud reminds me of the alleged US lunar astronauts who were traipsing immediately after landing as if they never left the Earth for over
two weeks.   Not all of them landed on the surface of the Moon and the ones always in zero g would have experienced enough muscle atrophy to
require a wheel chair immediately after landing.   BTW, to all the clowns who will start apologizing for Uncle Swine-shit's psyops, the cosmonauts
who landed on the Kazakh steppe from two week orbital trips need assistance and could not walk on their own.  

3) The temporary amnesia "symptom" claimed for Navalny indicates a psychotropic compound and not a high grade neurotoxin.   Note that
there is not a shred of mention of any tremors and numbness of the hands or extremities.  Instead some sort of amnesia is claimed where
Navalny can recognize a doctor but not his family.   This case is so fake it is cringeworthy.  A neurotoxin that puts you in a coma will leave
substantial, long lasting damage.   In fact, Navalny would not be able to traipse around casually as if nothing happened from the nerve
damage done by the alleged novichoke regardless of the coma muscle atrophy.  

4) In Salisbury we had all sorts of exposed surface destruction to stop contamination by novichoke.   But in Navalny's case no site has been deemed
contaminated, including the hotel where Navalny was staying.   This is inconsistent with the method of his alleged poisoning.  It wasn't with
a needle injection, it was through the coating of the surface of a bottle.   Navalny would have gotten it on his hands and then on other
objects.   The key point is that novichoke is supposed to be extremely potent so even trace amounts are unsafe.

No question this must be the most pathetic psyop ever, what I still don't know is whether the European involvement in it is a way of scoring cheap points with US and trying to reduce pressure in other more relevant issues in exchange or self initiated by them as a way of keeping leverage on Russia. In both cases it proves a complete lack of decency (I mean, oven of that little bit of decency that politicians should still have so that others can respect them) and a serious strategic miscalculation. Their best chance to have any future is to resist US as a block and open up to Eurasian integration now, by attaching themselves to sinking US Titanic they are just committing economic suicide.

It's up to Russia to state, worldwide, it is France and such position to put up or shut up.

Russia also has samples of Navalnys blood and will state, we have his blood. Now show us yours.

What will happen is...nothing. EU will just keep making demands but ultimately nothing and their credibility just sinks further.

I've noticed majority of commenters I have read do not actually believe the news and state it's bullshit.

That is also evident in that these other nations are feeling something like daily protests and other issues while Russia doesnt

miketheterrible wrote:What will happen is...nothing. EU will just keep making demands but ultimately nothing and their credibility just sinks further.

I've noticed majority of commenters I have read do not actually believe the news and state it's bullshit.

That is also evident in that these other nations are feeling something like daily protests and other issues while Russia doesnt

Exactly, the West and particularly UE is badly overplaying their hand and overstretching their already questionable credibility. Instead of this stunt further cementing the bad reputation of Russia as they intend, for lots of people it is just offering further proof that Skripal's case was nothing but an embarrassing farce and, by extension, placing a huge question mark over all the Western allegations about Russia's malignant behaviour. In fact, there is nothing Russia could do to discredit the Skripal / Novichok circus better than what Germany has just done...

Preserving your credibility has a strongly non-linear behaviour and once the first cracks in your public façade appear, you better stop the abuse or it will simply crumble. US has much more control of international media than Europe and they could blow their cover anytime they find it suitable. So EU instead of getting a stronger position for the future is just making it weaker, because until now US has not publicly shown their hand and has left them carry the weight of this scandal, that allows them to use this as a weapon in the future.

Besides typical navalniests who say he is Savior of Russia (whom I asked how a US backed agent is a savior for Russia and all I get are abuses, so proving they are retarded), most other Russians are saying they are glad he is recovering so he can come back to Russia and face trial for all of his tax evasions and criminal acts which are apparently waiting for him.

miketheterrible wrote:Besides typical navalniests who say he is Savior of Russia (whom I asked how a US backed agent is a savior for Russia and all I get are abuses, so proving they are retarded), most other Russians are saying they are glad he is recovering so he can come back to Russia and face trial for all of his tax evasions and criminal acts which are apparently waiting for him.

Navalny needs to be put on trial for this grifting psyop.   Engaging in political blackmail should be a crime and this is exactly what this grifter is engaged in.
Russian prosecutors have access to actual blood samples and can conduct a real criminal investigation.   They can then proceed from there.   Let NATzO liars
screech about "oppression".   Russia cannot bend laws to please its western enemies, it needs to abide by due process and rule of law.   That is what
Putin claims to want so he should act accordingly.

BTW, if its fine and dandy for NATzO yaps to use plausibility "arguments" to claim Putin poisoned Navalny without any proof, it is more than OK
for Russia to assert that whatever novichoke was being measured in NATzO was from tampered samples. NATzO has a motive to engage in
this blood libel. Russian authorities have no motive to poison Navalny in such a cheesy fashion after letting him do what he wants for over a
decade. Interesting how motive is not a consideration any more in the precious NATzO west.