Russia-EU relationship

George1 wrote:The European Union has begun the procedure for imposing sanctions against Russia in the "Navalny case"

https://6b6gjclcha6ibjpa45wvvqdamu--topwar-ru.translate.goog/180443-evrosojuz-nachal-proceduru-vvedenija-sankcij-protiv-rossii-po-delu-navalnogo.html

Since this is pure kangaroo PR court posturing, Russia needs to make it hurt for EU-tards. Like some on this forum, the morons
in the EU think that Russia desperately needs their goods and services. Gazprom needs to stop coupling natural gas prices
to the oil price. They are not the same commodity and we see LNG hitting $1100 for a thousand cubic meters (uncompressed)
when Russia is selling its gas for as low as $170 for a thousand cubic meters. This sort of charity for Russia haters is demented.

They should see these new sanctions as an opportunity and use the situation to solve some of their own problems in relations to the EU.

Gas prices are certainly one area they can modify things to their own advantage, but equally they can start talking about prisoners of conscience like Snowden and Assange and human rights violations in the EU it does not seem interested in resolving internationally...

The case for gas prices is just another proof that trading with rich countries does not improve your wealth or standing... as a collective group of just under 30 odd members they used that bargaining power to get a very good price for gas, while poor individual countries will pay much much more.

The poor countries might not afford to buy as much gas as the EU does but the profit margin is enormous in its difference and makes selling to poorer countries much more profitable... so profitable in fact that you could even give them a discount to make your gas more attractive than gas from other sources and still make a good profit.

When the (unelected) head of the EU talks about using words from a position of strength you know their position is actually rather weak.

Indeed. But beggars cannot be choosers. The EU is in no position to dictate the natural gas price. It is Russia's choice
over the last decades to pander and win favour with the EU. This approach is totally bankrupt now. The EU never gave
Russia any slack for supplying cheap natural gas. It has been riding the lynch wagon together with the Great Satan USA
since WWII.

As the NATzO west are a pack of frothing at the mouth enemies of Russia, it is time to treat them as such.

Navalny – Pranked French MP admits on the phone that France has Novichok



http://www.donbass-insider.com/2021/03/13/navalny-pranked-french-mp-admits-on-the-phone-that-france-has-novichok/

Moscow has no relations with EU as organization today, Lavrov says

Russia is open to dialogue with the EU, if Brussels decides to mend relations, according to Lavrov

GUILIN /China/, March 23. /TASS/. The entire infrastructure of relations with the European Union has been destroyed by unilateral steps taken by Brussels, so Moscow has no relations with that organization now, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters on Tuesday at a joint news conference with his Chinese counterpart Wang Yi.

"There are no relations with the European Union as an organization. The entire infrastructure of these relations has been destroyed by unilateral decisions made by Brussels," he said.

"If Europe severed these ties, just destroying all the mechanisms that had been created for many years, and we only have individuals European countries that want to be guided by their national interests, then, probably, objectively, this leads to the fact that our relations with China are developing faster that what is left of relations with European countries," Lavrov stressed.

Russia will be ready for contacts to scale up cooperation with the EU when Brussels deems it necessary to eliminate anomalies in bilateral relations, according to Lavrov.

"If and when Europeans deem fit to eliminate these anomalies in contacts with their largest neighbor, of course, we will be ready to build up these relations based on equality, the search of balance of interests. In the meantime, there are no changes on the Western front, while in the East, in my opinion, we have a very intensive agenda, which is becoming more diverse every year," he noted.

https://tass.com/politics/1269103

29% of Russians consider Russia a European country, 64% – non-European. Back in 2019, these figures were 37% and 55%, respectively. In general, since 2008, the number of those who believe that Russia is a European country has decreased by almost half: from 52% to 29%. The number of those who believe otherwise has increased in roughly the same proportion: from 36% to 64%.

https://www.levada.ru/2021/03/18/rossiya-i-evropa-2/

franco wrote:29% of Russians consider Russia a European country, 64% – non-European. Back in 2019, these figures were 37% and 55%, respectively. In general, since 2008, the number of those who believe that Russia is a European country has decreased by almost half: from 52% to 29%. The number of those who believe otherwise has increased in roughly the same proportion: from 36% to 64%.

https://www.levada.ru/2021/03/18/rossiya-i-evropa-2/

Good news. Ukr degenerates are obsessed with proving to the world that they are part of precious Europe. That
should tell anyone all they need to know what Europe is all about. Europe is a pack of ex-colonialist powers
that rabidly hate Russia and are livid that "mud hut dwellers" have retained the biggest country on Earth and
have the ability to be at the leading edge of science and technology. Europe are now a pack run by the
US alpha dog. They support systematically every nazi element in their never ending drang nach osten.
(for example the ethic cleansing of Krajina, East and West Slavonia by the Croats had full NATzO backing,
the installation of Banderite nazis in Kiev was a NATzO project, etc.)

franco wrote:29% of Russians consider Russia a European country, 64% – non-European. Back in 2019, these figures were 37% and 55%, respectively. In general, since 2008, the number of those who believe that Russia is a European country has decreased by almost half: from 52% to 29%. The number of those who believe otherwise has increased in roughly the same proportion: from 36% to 64%.

https://www.levada.ru/2021/03/18/rossiya-i-evropa-2/

They are considering Russsians as an ethnicity or as citizenship? Maybe Turkish populations in Central Asia with Russian citizenship don't consider themselfs Europeans, but Russians ethnics from SPB mostly do.

Pacense wrote:

franco wrote:29% of Russians consider Russia a European country, 64% – non-European. Back in 2019, these figures were 37% and 55%, respectively. In general, since 2008, the number of those who believe that Russia is a European country has decreased by almost half: from 52% to 29%. The number of those who believe otherwise has increased in roughly the same proportion: from 36% to 64%.

https://www.levada.ru/2021/03/18/rossiya-i-evropa-2/

They are considering Russsians as an ethnicity or as citizenship? Maybe Turkish populations in Central Asia with Russian citizenship don't consider themselfs Europeans, but Russians ethnics from SPB mostly do.

No. The EU is a political construct and not a geographic-historical one. It is a foaming at the mouth anti-Russian entity that is meshed with NATzO
which is an explicitly anti-Russian military alliance. The poll accurately reflects the disenchantment of ethnic Russians and other citizens of Russia with
"the west". Instead of even trying to engage in friendly relations with Russia, it has been systematically acting in what looks to Russians like a
plant to exterminate them. Pushing NATzO east was phase I, now we are in phase II of actual troop deployments on Russia's borders. Phase
II is the 1000 year old drang nach osten of actual war.

So Russians do not see themselves as EU-peons. That is what the demented Ukrs are obsessed with.

kvs wrote:

Pacense wrote:

franco wrote:29% of Russians consider Russia a European country, 64% – non-European. Back in 2019, these figures were 37% and 55%, respectively. In general, since 2008, the number of those who believe that Russia is a European country has decreased by almost half: from 52% to 29%. The number of those who believe otherwise has increased in roughly the same proportion: from 36% to 64%.

https://www.levada.ru/2021/03/18/rossiya-i-evropa-2/

They are considering Russsians as an ethnicity or as citizenship? Maybe Turkish populations in Central Asia with Russian citizenship don't consider themselfs Europeans, but Russians ethnics from SPB mostly do.

No.   The EU is a political construct and not a geographic-historical one.   It is a foaming at the mouth anti-Russian entity that is meshed with NATzO
which is an explicitly anti-Russian military alliance.    The poll accurately reflects the disenchantment of ethnic Russians and other citizens of Russia with
"the west".   Instead of even trying to engage in friendly relations with Russia, it has been systematically acting in what looks to Russians like a
plant to exterminate them.   Pushing NATzO east was phase I, now we are in phase II of actual troop deployments on Russia's borders.   Phase
II is the 1000 year old drang nach osten of actual war.

So Russians do not see themselves as EU-peons.   That is what the demented Ukrs are obsessed with.

You're telling me that ethnic Russians from SPB don't see themselfs as Europeans!? Not true at all. Even the Russian youth from Siberia, want to look more like western physiognomy than east one. Some girls even do surgery. And no one told me this, I know this from personal experience.

So what if Eu is a politic construct? It couldn't even be the other way around. That doen't make anti-Russian at all. Why would it?

The people in the EU are not anti Russian... though they have been constantly bombarded with anti Russia propaganda for such a long time I would say neutral or pro Russian people in any EU countries will be a minority.

I rather suspect a large portion don't care about Russia one way or another and are happy enough to go along with what they are told by their 1% owned media and their governments... also owned by the 1%.

With the internet however communication has never been so open, so Russians will be looking at western news and information websites and seeing this almost uniformly negative view of Russia... Russia does not have interests they just spend their time undermining and attacking the west and our western values... which is ironic because it is actually western politicians who constantly undermine and attack Russia while at the same time ignoring and breaking their own values and ethics.

If you listen to the west and assume they tell the truth then their foreign policy actions really don't make sense... it only makes sense if you assume they are oil grabbing liars and then their actions make perfect sense.

some BS here but also some interesting content especially by the Russian guest on recent spionage cases in EU by Russian diplomats.
What happened in Italy (Italian Navy official got busted by police when passing sensitive information for a whopping 5000€ to a Russian diplomat) is just being used to further demonize Russia when everybody with a brain knows that this things happen every day from any side.

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2021/4/1/how-will-europe-deal-with-suspected-russian-spies

Russia shows lots of hostility lately. I dont think Nordstream II should be completed under such circumstances. At moment president Macron talks alot with chancellor Merkel to end the pipeline.

Aristide wrote:Russia shows lots of hostility lately. I dont think Nordstream II should be completed under such circumstances. At moment president Macron talks alot with chancellor Merkel to end the pipeline.

So is Macron going to provide Germany with cheaper gas than Russia?

I do not want the pay more my utilities bill to appease the gauls, the yankees or the (as Putin said yesterday quoting Kipling) "Small Tobaccos (that) are spinning around Sher Khan (and). They whine to appease their sovereign."

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

Aristide wrote:Russia shows lots of hostility lately. I dont think Nordstream II should be completed under such circumstances. At moment president Macron talks alot with chancellor Merkel to end the pipeline.

So is Macron going to provide Germany with cheaper gas than Russia?

I do not want the pay more my utilities bill to appease the gauls, the yankees or the (as Putin said yesterday quoting Kipling) "Small Tobaccos (that) are spinning around Sher Khan (and). They whine to appease their sovereign."

1. The gas wont be cheaper, since the pipeline already is many billions more expensive than planned.

2. The pipeline is against european energy politics, the EU parliament voted against it.

3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

The french proposal is, to put a moratorium on the pipelìne and connect its completion to demands on russia.

Aristide wrote:

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

Aristide wrote:Russia shows lots of hostility lately. I dont think Nordstream II should be completed under such circumstances. At moment president Macron talks alot with chancellor Merkel to end the pipeline.

So is Macron going to provide Germany with cheaper gas than Russia?

I do not want the pay more my utilities bill to appease the gauls, the yankees or the (as Putin said yesterday quoting Kipling) "Small Tobaccos (that) are spinning around Sher Khan (and). They whine to appease their sovereign."

1. The gas wont be cheaper, since the pipeline already is many billions more expensive than planned.

2. The pipeline is against european energy politics, the EU parliament voted against it.

3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

The french proposal is, to put a moratorium on the pipelìne and connect its completion to demands on russia.

European Union policies are mostly antieuropean.
The fact that it should undermine European security is bullshit, it is just an infrastructure to allow cheaper gas to be bought by Germany from Russia without intermediaries.
Other countries can always sell their LNG. If the prices are good, they can be bought as well.

The issue about this is the same as the original scope of NATO in Europe: keep the Americans in, the Russian out and the Germans down.

The European parliament is even less democratic than the North Korean government.

As an Italian (and as a German taxpayer) I am extremely annoyed by all this barking from our "allies". All of the requests from France, England, Poland etc are always against the interest of both my country and my host country

The EU is controlled by the Murica, now wonder they are destroying themselves with refugees.

EU is just a trading partner for Russia(a unreliable one).

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

Aristide wrote:

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

Aristide wrote:Russia shows lots of hostility lately. I dont think Nordstream II should be completed under such circumstances. At moment president Macron talks alot with chancellor Merkel to end the pipeline.

So is Macron going to provide Germany with cheaper gas than Russia?

I do not want the pay more my utilities bill to appease the gauls, the yankees or the (as Putin said yesterday quoting Kipling) "Small Tobaccos (that) are spinning around Sher Khan (and). They whine to appease their sovereign."

1. The gas wont be cheaper, since the pipeline already is many billions more expensive than planned.

2. The pipeline is against european energy politics, the EU parliament voted against it.

3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

The french proposal is, to put a moratorium on the pipelìne and connect its completion to demands on russia.

1. The actual building was more expensive than planned true, but the actual gas will not be.

2. This is true.

3. That depends on personal view and if Russia does try to use the pipeline as a weapon which who knows maybe they will or maybe they won't, no one here an see the future to that's speculation

Soviet Union  and Russia have never "weaponised" the gas, oil and energy sales.

Russia is just annoyed with some of the transfer countries because they always try to use blackmail against both supplier and customers.

The pipeline was more expensive because of the delays due to the sanctions. You stall construction for a year or more but you still have salaries to pay.
Then there are extra expenses incurred from having to move Fortuna and Akademik Cherskiy and upgrading them.
Even at double the price it would be cheaper than paying Ukraine for transit. Let alone the other countries along the route.

"Before it's too late": Danish media called for an end to Putin's great Russia

The West is making a colossal mistake by “turning a blind eye” to Moscow's aggressive actions near the borders of its neighbors. President Vladimir Putin is playing an extremely dangerous game with fire not only in Ukraine, but also in allied Belarus, preparing for its direct capture. The regime has only one dream - to annex as many territories of the post-Soviet space as possible. And the collective West at this time does nothing but “brush off” the worst possible scenarios. Political analyst Christian Mouritzen writes about this in an article for Berlingske (Denmark).

Until it's not too late

The war in Georgia in 2008, like the “annexation” of Crimea, as well as the unleashing of the conflict in Donbass, did not happen overnight. Firstly, it was not a surprise, and secondly, the process took place gradually and took a certain amount of time. But the West hoped for the best and did nothing.

While Russia is driving troops back and forth these days, no one again pays due attention to this and does not respond with real measures, engaging in demagoguery, although there should have been a memory of past events and the experience of what could happen. So before it is too late, the author writes, a tough reaction to the aggressive actions of the Russian Federation is necessary, until one of such "exercises" ends with another "unexpected" step for the West into foreign territory.

Otherwise, you will again have to act after the fact, when it is absolutely useless, ineffective and “in pursuit”, without the possibility of changing anything. After the "catastrophe" happened, such sanctions had no effect on Putin. Who guarantees that history doesn't repeat itself?

Ideas about a great Russia must be suppressed

So, according to Mouritzen, in 2021, from the height of experience, even the simplest steps of Russia on its territory should be taken with the utmost seriousness. The thing is that the Russian Federation is "amazed" by the idea of ​​becoming great again, which is extremely dangerous for its neighbors.

Now the main thing is not to make a mistake again, it is important to take what is happening as seriously as possible. - writes the author, escalating the situation.

If the West hesitates, he continues, Russia usually always wins. Isn't the success of the Russian Federation not enough to show how many times Brussels and Washington doubted and condescendingly closed their eyes?

The time has come to put an end to great Russia, the very idea of ​​it, to root out this nationalist approach at the root, writes Mouritzen. To do this, it is necessary to show as concretely as possible that the next time Moscow decides to attack someone, something “wrong” may go wrong for it. This is especially true of aggression towards the "best friends" of the West, such as Ukraine, the observer summed up.



https://3k47h7prcgrle5jw3uclh7f7fq-ac4c6men2g7xr2a-politobzor-net.translate.goog/232402-poka-ne-pozdno-datskie-smi-prizvali-polozhit-konec-velikoj-rossii-putina.html?utm_source=topwar.ru

Really funny, these western folks (and by this I mean politicians/repeaters and other "experts"). After Lenin renamed Russia into the Soviet Union and drew some artifical borders, because he hated Russians so much, the west didn´t accept it for decades. Even in the 70´s the SU was mostly named Soviet Russia in most of the western countries. And shortly after the "coutry" was gone they worship the artifical borders, even if this means war between "neighbors".

There is no "Greater Russia". If Russia would return the so-called "former soviet states" it would only bring back traditional russian land.

In the past years the SU was declared as evil as Nazi Germany, guilty of all sorts of crimes against the poor people of eastern europe and the "former soviet states". But the largest victim were the russian people and Russia herself.

Aristide wrote:

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

Aristide wrote:Russia shows lots of hostility lately. I dont think Nordstream II should be completed under such circumstances. At moment president Macron talks alot with chancellor Merkel to end the pipeline.

So is Macron going to provide Germany with cheaper gas than Russia?

I do not want the pay more my utilities bill to appease the gauls, the yankees or the (as Putin said yesterday quoting Kipling) "Small Tobaccos (that) are spinning around Sher Khan (and). They whine to appease their sovereign."

1. The gas wont be cheaper, since the pipeline already is many billions more expensive than planned.

2. The pipeline is against european energy politics, the EU parliament voted against it.

3. The pipeline is anti european, since its undermines european security.

The french proposal is, to put a moratorium on the pipelìne and connect its completion to demands on russia.

The pipeline is a matter between Russia and Germany and concerns no other country, other than perhaps Denmark whose waters it has also crossed.

Now it's completely within Germany's right to defer to the interests of its EU partners and whatever and their objections. But they haven't done that, and have in fact defended the project.

As for your points:

1. The gas will be the same price, the pipeline investment will take a longer time to recoup but that's a matter for the contractors involved. As it is the gas doesn't cross any 3rd country so no transit fees. And if the pipeline is not finished by 2024 then the price of gas will go up as there will be no more transit through the Ukraine, and Russia will instead supply Europe's balance through LNG from the Arctic

2. It didn't breach any EU regulations at the time since it was by sea. That some legislation was later instituted and attempted to be applied retroactively is the responsibility of the people who proposed the legislation; the pipeline breached no stipulations or laws at the the time it was projected and put to construction.

3. It doesn't undermine anyone's security nor are Russian tanks going to be transiting through it. It's just a pipeline for gas from Russia to Germany. If that harms someone's security, then their definition and idea of security is suspect in the first instance.

Aristide wrote:Russia shows lots of hostility lately. I dont think Nordstream II should be completed under such circumstances. At moment president Macron talks alot with chancellor Merkel to end the pipeline.

In fact it is Europe which shows hostility to Russia and has been for a lot longer than vice-versa.

Maybe Macron and Merkel should have a talk with Zelensky and dissuade him from starting some stupid shit in the east of the country that might have dire consequences

In fact if they took that seriously from the beginning then the US puppet in Kiev would not have the confidence that he did to effectively annul the Minsk agreement and status quo that had kept the conflict from escalating since 2014. Russia in the end had to roll its sleeves up, and the danger is still not over. Such situations should not happen.

But certainly it's not French money and energy needs on the table, so it's easy for Macron to say whatever. Germany wants to continue to be a competitive economy, simple as that, and no manufacturing of crisis with Russia will seemingly trick them out of that.
Because while all this is happening, Asia has no problems buying Russian gas and lapping up juicy contracts, and it's them the Germans and French should be worrying about.

They should also have a rethink about trying to attempt regime change in Moscow if they want better relations. I'm not a defender of the regime we have in particular, but it's a given that the Russian gov. will not respond kindly to it as they've demonstrated with Borrell, who came there and attempted to pretend that it was business as usual after an abortive attempt by Navalny.