Russian Civil Aviation: News #4

Backman wrote:The internal aviation industry in Russia is clearly going to function differently than it did before the war. It will probably bet fuel at cost. The IL-96 was introduced 2-3 years before the Boeing 777. The IL 96 is not ancient by any means. Both the il96 and tu's can be used.

Russian requirements for wide body airliners are couple of dozen in total

Everything else is done with mediums and lights

So even if they don't do anything new with Il-96 they are still covered, they don't need to operate with profit, just to break even (which they will)

Money will be made by every other plane

But they will be doing something new with Il-96 so it's all good

Likei said, couple of dozen

Firebird wrote:I've never really understood why Russia couldn't count on more "loyal partners" to up the numbers of good/reasonable home grown jets.

Obviouslty there are the "total outcasts" from Uncle Sham ie Venezuela, Iran, Belarus etc.
But also a variety of others at different points on the scale. Kazakstan, India, Indonesia and many more.

I think the EU or Britain had some moronic idea they would seize any Russian made plane that landed on their territory as part of the anti anti-Nazi "sanctions".

A huge number of Boeing and Airbus jets fly over Russia between the huge population centres of Europe and Asia.

How about Russia starts bringing in quotas on the number of jets allowed to fly into Russian airspace.
Firstly target US, British/similar airlines. Then in time say to the Asians they must phase out EU/US jets to whatever extent and fly only Russian or Asian or other planes over Russian airspace.

Sounds fair and sounds an effective way to stop the nonsense behaviour of Uncle Sham and its bitches.

US and Europe have no planes flying over Russia as they are banned from russian airspace.

There was nothing at all wrong with the Il-96 design, its engines were a bit old and of course there being four engines that leads to higher drag and frontal area which effects performance but at the time there was no better engine or alternative solution that made sense.

Russia is not going to be turning back to the west so its future lies in developing ties with the rest of the world so a wide bodied long range airliner is actually something they will probably want more than a dozen examples of, and once in production and use I think the Russian military could probably find some uses for the design as well... their next generation radar will be surface mounted, so a large aircraft with long range and fuel efficiency with the capacity to take a lot of crew stations as well as perhaps jamming and electronic equipment on board to analyse signals would be a useful aircraft and being able to operate long periods away from base would be a bonus.

Its large size it could combine the functions of JSTARS and AWACS and a jamming platform with lots of potential power take off from those large engines too.

A new airborne laser system could also be developed for the aircraft too... and for inflight refuelling it would be ideal it could operate on Russian long range bomber bases and take off with the bombers and match their high subsonic speed and fly 1-2 thousand kms up to the north pole area and then start fuelling the bombers to fill their fuel tanks to max capacity when they are 2-3 thousand kms from base and then the inflight refuelling planes could return to Russian bases while the bombers can continue their missiles with max range potential...

For conventional missions they could fly most of the way to the target area with the bombers and refuel them close to the target in international airspace and then return to base allowing the bombers to launch their attacks with full fuel but close to the target areas with standoff munitions and then be able to head home at high speed because of the excess fuel allowing high throttle settings...

Low production numbers likely put off other airlines, but Russian airlines can now make it work and I am sure KRET can make absolutely world class avionics for these planes to make them very popular aircraft.

Perhaps a hostile aircraft charge for overflights where Boeing and Airbus aircraft have to pay extra for overflights of Russian airspace might be a good idea... I am sure the Chinese government would support that too as Chinese designed airliners would be considered friendly aircraft too.

Firebird wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Firebird wrote:I've never really understood why Russia couldn't count on more "loyal partners" to up the numbers of good/reasonable home grown jets.

Obviouslty there are the "total outcasts" from Uncle Sham ie Venezuela, Iran, Belarus etc.
But also a variety of others at different points on the scale. Kazakstan, India, Indonesia and many more.

I think the EU or Britain had some moronic idea they would seize any Russian made plane that landed on their territory as part of the anti anti-Nazi "sanctions".

A huge number of Boeing and Airbus jets fly over Russia between the huge population centres of Europe and Asia.

How about Russia starts bringing in quotas on the number of jets allowed to fly into Russian airspace.
Firstly target US, British/similar airlines. Then in time say to the Asians they must phase out EU/US jets to whatever extent and fly only Russian or Asian or other planes over Russian airspace.

Sounds fair and sounds an effective way to stop the nonsense behaviour of Uncle Sham and its bitches.

US and Europe have no planes flying over Russia as they are banned from russian airspace.

Yes but aren't Boeings and Airbuses owned by non US and non Euro carriers still allowed over Ru airspace.

I would successively target any US or Euro plane over time. Obviously giving non US and non Euro carriers enough time to change to non Airbus and non Boeing planes.

I don't know if Russia could do that other than creating some kind of arbitrary certificate standard to fly over their country thus limiting what jets can fly over them. But that would alienate the friendly countries too.

Plus if they banned Boeings and Airbuses from flying in their airspace then the EU will simply ban Russian planes from EU airspace meaning planes flying from Asia to Europe would all have to bypass Russian airspace making it a level playing field.

By banning European airlines that have banned Russian airlines from using their airspace the airlines operating to Asia and lots of places in the rest of the world where they used to save time and money crossing Russian airspace will be penalised while rest of the world airlines can cross Russian airspace and save money while paying overflight fees to Russia for the priviledge.

They save money and hours off flight times so they will get more business and squease out Hostile nations airlines.

Finair has already said they are losing money because 20% of their passengers were Russians and they were making good money with flights to Asia that cut through Russian airspace. The same flights take three to four hours longer which costs more at a time when they want more people flying to make up for income lost during Covid.

It was built with western bits because that was what the customers were wanting at the time, and there were too many 5th columnists within Russian aviation... before 2014 when Ukrainian engines were still being bought from the Ukraine they managed to kill the Il-106 and Tu-330 and several other promising projects because they were a threat to Ukrainian and western projects.

Estimates for how long it will take to replace the components vary but odds are actually rather good the rest of the world might have some components they can buy while developing their own replacements.

Making everything yourself is inefficient unless you need a lot of them and there were not an enormous number of solid offers for Russian aircraft before... that has now changed so the demand will create supply because makers can now say that Russia will be making lots of new planes over the next decade or so and so the market for their product is assured... meaning getting loans and investors shouldn't be too hard... not to mention there is probably a bit of financial assistance floating around for suitable companies that could fill the gaps.

Laos is in the Guinness book of world records for being the most heavily bombed country in the world.

This is a smart move economically... there is not much chance otherwise of them being an air hub in the region, so this is a good way for them to get contacts and money and people traveling to their country.

Looks like Russia has potentially more options to strike at EU countries economically then.

Yeah, so effectively they have lifted bans on things where they make good money like aircraft parts for their own aircraft and agricultural and food and fertiliser products because they don't want to get screwed by Russia with their own sanctions.

Not banning steel exports from Russia because they don't want titanium exports from Russia to them is amusing too and exposes their vulnerability and fears for all to see.

What if as a result of their sanctions the Russians start making their own parts to keep western planes operating... they could use them and also sell them on the international market at prices the western companies that make the planes can't compete as costing them billions.

Denying them fertiliser chemicals would also damage the European economy and the loss of Russian titanium parts means they probably couldn't make parts for their own planes let alone for Russian ones...

I hope the Russians are taking careful note of what would hurt them because they didn't do this for Russia, they did it for themselves, so in a few areas they realised the damage done to Russia would be minimal but the damage to the EU would be significant... so Russia could implement the sanctions themselves to damage the EU in response to their attempts to damage Russia.

Russia needs laws to gradually get rid of western airliners as a matter of policy for Russian owned airlines because otherwise they might end up staying...