IMDS St Petersburg 2021

Model of the Amulet autonomous uninhabited underwater vehicle

Model of the Amur-1650 submarine

Model of the Piranha-T small submarine 

Model of a large landing ship of the Project 11711

Piranha small SSN (left) and Serval SSK (Right)  

Questions: how small (big?) is Pirahna supposed to be exactly (because it doesn't look that small) and is there option of building them in large numbers to supplement larger SSNs/SSGNs?

I mean you don't need Yasen (or Akula or Husky) to patrol areas close by

Also is Serval supposed to be Kilo-class successor?

GarryB wrote:Tactical and technical characteristics of the "Piranha":

Dimensions: length                                  - 28,3 m, width - 4,7 m, height - 5,1 m.
Displacement - surface                            - 218 t, scuba - 319 t.
Underwater travel speed                          - 6,7 knots, surface - 6 knots.
Cruising range                                        - full 1000 miles, continuous underwater underway - 260 miles.
Maximum immersion depth                      - 200 m.
The autonomy of swimming is 10 days.
Crew                                                      - 3 crew + to 6 combat swimmers
Armament                                              - 2 torpedoes 400 mm torpedo "Latush" or 4 mines.

Are you sure these numbers apply to this new version? Looks more like specs for old Soviet non-nuclear Piranha

Sail alone on this new ones looks to be 4 meters wide

PapaDragon wrote:
Piranha small SSN (left) and Serval SSK (Right)  

Questions: how small (big?) is Pirahna supposed to be exactly (because it doesn't look that small) and is there option of building them in large numbers to supplement larger SSNs/SSGNs?

I mean you don't need Yasen (or Akula or Husky) to patrol areas close by

Also is Serval supposed to be Kilo-class successor?

[img]https://www.gov.spb.ru/static/writable/mediact/photo/2021/06/24/2021-06-24_09-25-55_-_AL1I5997.Jimg]

Those are old designs and nothing new. Left is known as P-650 or p-550 and right is p-750B.

P-550 or p-650 also advertized as Piranha-T :

https://www.aoosk.ru/en/products/piranha-t/



P-750b presented few years ago.



For more information go check the midget submarine thread.

I know some of you guys like small landing ships so here is something for you, Project 21810

Looks interesting, small enough so that some small shipyard could whip out a lot of them without too much hassle

Model of Project 12411

They should really finish these two already...

This one can be used to carry containerized weapons. They plan some redut missiles in containers and they already have kalibr.

They could also create iskander or use drones from them.

They can then be considered as multipurpose boats.

GarryB wrote:Tactical and technical characteristics of the "Piranha":

Dimensions: length                                  - 28,3 m, width - 4,7 m, height - 5,1 m.
Displacement - surface                            - 218 t, scuba - 319 t.
Underwater travel speed                          - 6,7 knots, surface - 6 knots.
Cruising range                                        - full 1000 miles, continuous underwater underway - 260 miles.
Maximum immersion depth                      - 200 m.
The autonomy of swimming is 10 days.
Crew                                                      - 3 crew + to 6 combat swimmers
Armament                                              - 2 torpedoes 400 mm torpedo "Latush" or 4 mines.

I hope they build a few of these. They would be great in the Baltic.

Model of the patrol ship variant of the Project 22160

It's more in the class of the old Polochny boats but with the nice addition of a helicopter pad. The Dyugon is basically an enlarged Serna with more capacity.

Well I guess you can say much the same of the 21810...

Mir wrote:It's more in the class of the old Polochny boats but with the nice addition of a helicopter pad. The Dyugon is basically an enlarged Serna with more capacity.

Well I guess you can say much the same of the 21810...

It definitely looks like something designed to be easily mass produced

Hull is bog standard, bridge and mast are more or less identical to Karakurt down to size (might as well be a copy) and rear section is lifted off Rubin-class (even uses same armoured speedboat)

Also, if loaded with Kalibr containers it could become pocket arsenal ship

It seems to be able to fit 12 shipping containers which​ would equal 48 Kalibr LACMs

Not a bad thing (or two) to have attached to a squadron of warships, keep corvettes and frigates fully loaded with anti-ship missiles and let these cargo boats rip at leisurely pace

Flexibility and efficiency

Helis and armored speedboats for the first wave, followed by amphibious vehicles or tanks deliverd directly to the beach. Nice for the Baltics and Black Sea.

PapaDragon wrote:Also, if loaded with Kalibr containers it could become pocket arsenal ship

Arsenal ship need to be large. That's the whole point of it. Small doesn't cut it. Even if you replace Kalibr with Zircon.

RTN wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:Also, if loaded with Kalibr containers it could become pocket arsenal ship

Arsenal ship need to be large. That's the whole point of it. Small doesn't cut it. Even if you replace Kalibr with Zircon.

Putting all your eggs in one basket is stupid. I rather have 10 small ships like this with 10 kalibr each than one big with 100.

But you have to "impress" your enemies with their "my button is bigger" attitude - so size does matter

Regarding size. As the Kirov emerged the western commentators declared that western navies wouldn´t build cruisers with that size. 10 smaller frigates are better (egg and basket thing). As the Rogov (first design) emerged the same commentators stated that it was a "pocket-Tarawa" and that the much bigger american ships are way better...

It seems that west can´t do anything wrong.

Hole wrote:Regarding size. As the Kirov emerged the western commentators declared that western navies wouldn´t build cruisers with that size. 10 smaller frigates are better (egg and basket thing). As the Rogov (first design) emerged the same commentators stated that it was a "pocket-Tarawa" and that the much bigger american ships are way better...
It seems that west can´t do anything wrong.

Well, that vastly depends on the source you are listening to.
Most of that sabre-rattling came from fanboys of the sides.
And not the smart ones, because one can be a fanboy, still keep the sane mind there.
None of them is capable to make an objective statement, because first of all, they know shit, and the second they are so devoted to one side that hardly sees any position of the other.
You have people who are claiming that RuN is capable to deal with USN in open ocean warfare, which is an obvious joke.
On the other hand, you have the guys who claim that RuN will do shit to the Muricans, as they are the best which is an obvious joke as well.
There is hardly a point to argue with them at any matter.
The best source to judge the real stand and condition of the sides is to listen to what the professionals have to say.
And I do not mean talking heads as professionals.
For example, Congress commissions are extremely valuable for that matter, because this is where steroid amateurs with political bias of The Great Murica shit clash with professionals, who are to deal with their idiocy when shit hit the fan for real.
The last time I have heard, an acting USN admiral openly stated, that the state and complexity of the Russian coastal warfare system make the Russian shore actually impossible to break through for landing operations. Cited it as an extreme example of the highest effectiveness of costal denial strategy, assured with minimal assets applied.
The other time, commenting on the idiocy about no-fly-zones in Syria, the other general of USAF stated, that they can do shit for that matter, because first of all, it requires going for war with Russia, and is hardly a military, but a political decision. And on the other hand, the Russian contingent is so extremely well covered by ECM measures, that they know shit what is really going on there.
The third time, it was a Costal Guard admiral who told the congressmen to go and blow themselves rather than executing an order of parading through Northern Sea Route with the only existing ancient icebreaker America has at its disposal. He said that openly, that with the state and capabilities of this rusty basket, they would have to ask Russkies for help halfway down the rote, if lucky
He was fired for that, by the way
Never heard a Russian general laughing at America's potency.
The only thing they are saying openly is the fact that they are not in the 90s-00s anymore, so the American side must behave accordingly.
For example, GTFO when asked kindly.