Russian fossil energy (Oil and Gas and Coal) Industry: News #4

European Commission chief Ursula von der Leyen confirmed the Nord Stream pipeline system leaks were caused by "sabotage," and warned of the "strongest possible response" should active European energy infrastructure be attacked.

NSI was attacked too... where are our doom sayers criticising the EU for empty threats now?

Fucking slithery monsters. I hope Russia blows up the pipeline to poland. See how they like it.

The problem there is that it would not be that hard to repair... just take out the damaged sections and replace them with new pipes.

Besides that pipe is just an offshoot of an existing pipe... it would be like a junction of NSI and NSII above Kaliningrad that feeds gas directly to Kaliningrad... destroying the pipe to Kaliningrad would be inconvenient, but the gas going to Germany would continue so overall no real damage done.

I think if Europe wants relations with Russia in the future , then as well as releasing assets , it should pay war damages to Russia and reparations and if it wants Russian Gas , then pay for and carry out cost of repairs to pipeline .

The UK wouldn't speak to the leaders of the Donbass and Lugansk regions even to save those ex British soldiers lives... it is going to be several very cold winters in Europe before they pay anything.

The EU paying Russia war damages would be like the US paying Vietnam for all the damage Agent Orange caused there and continues to cause to this day... or the unexploded ordinance in the region for that matter.

But all this may have to wait a bit longer , for the dust to settle . If it can not happen immediately or the next couple of years , then I hope it does not take 20 years , and relations start in say 5-7 years .

In 5 to 7 years Russian will have reoriented itself away from Europe... it will be Chinese electric trains instead of German ones,  for instance... and Russia will likely have started a new wave of nuclear power plants being built in Asia and the Global South... I don't think Russia will be in any hurry to accept Euros or US dollars ever again...

Europe thought they had power because they were a major customer of Russian energy... ironically their comfortable lifestyle was based on cheap reliable energy that Russia delivered rain or shine and when Kiev stole gas... it was Russias fault... and when Russia spent billions bypassing unreliable intermediaries Germany refused to certify the new pipes.

Europe have been total to Russia these last 30 odd years... I understand why Europe wants to get back good relations they have enjoyed destroying these last few years, but what is in it for Russia exactly?

Also I disagree about Russia targeting secondary and civilian strategic infrastructure in Europe , when it is clear that Americans are primarily involved .

The Europeans are happy to be the weapon... disarming the US is always a good thing, but I do agree... the US should be damaged too... Russia will also be turning its back on them as well so no gas no oil no coal no uranium... no titanium for aircraft or engines...

60 kg of explosive , would not be enough to rupture thick steel pipe buried under Rock . We need multiple amounts of TNT equivalent . I do not know the precise amount , but if quantity exceeds , say  100 kg , then a UUV or drone and divers can not do this .

The soviets had a wide range of demolitions gear optimised for cutting lines and pipes and cables, and I suspect the US has the same.

A standard Soviet torpedo can have a warhead as big as 300kg with a propulsion system attached to carry it 100km at 30 knots... weight is no issue for underwater platforms...

A distraction and propaganda by the yanks , to allow Europeans and Russians  to tear each other apart . I am not buying this story of false flag .

The Europeans will blame Russia because they are stupid and not interested in reality anyway. For the Russians to cut off gas would simply involve not pumping any gas... no need to destroy anything... and certainly not in unfriendly waters.

Therefore either large conventional or small nuclear by yank ship or sub , but not small nuclear or large conventional by Poland plastic  dingy boat service  !

Did you not read the article above... it is an exact repeat of a naval exercise they did a year or two ago... of course Poo land did it... with the support and help of the US... and those complaining about Russian threats and their lack of following through should love the German response.

It would be entertaining if they grew a pair and blamed Poland and the US and Kiev for this and cut off all support for the nazis in the Ukraine... but that is never going to happen...

A one ton of TNT ground explosion creates a 2.0 on Richter scale . Underwater at least 50% of Energy is used to displace water . Therefore we need two tons of TNT to create 2.0 . The Earthquake was 2.3 ! Therefore conventional explosive too heavy to be placed by divers or dingy . Placing conventional two ton charge is very visible operation , therefore ..........

Specialist engineering equipment is normal, if one ton of TNT did create a 2.0 magnitude event then there is no point in using a nuclear device... such a small device could only be a fission weapon which would create an enormous amount of radiation because of its very low yield.

A nuclear strike on a German pipeline critical to their economy... that is a serious act of war...

The VZGLYAD newspaper warned a year and a half ago that Nord Stream could become the target of an attack . Today it is important not to let the West hang this sabotage on us.

Who cares... if the US wants the EU to have a cold winter then Russia should want it rather more... their response to this provocation  should be to cut all gas supplies to the EU till all the pipes are checked in detail and fully tested... BY THEM... so Poland and Ukraine will have to allow full inspection by Russian experts or no gas flows through their pipes.

It is a safety thing...

If Russia ever repairs NS pipes and starts pumping through them again I am switching sides!

I doubt Russia is very upset about this... apart from the blatant terrorism in Europe that the west normally goes apeshit about.. NS1 was pumping at about 20% and NS2 wasn't pumping anything and the damage is all in HATO/EU waters... seriously it is not Russias problem.

Any naval force that supposedly placed almost 2 tons of conventional explosives ( per explosion ! ) , would have needed large vessels and winches and had to loiter on location for long periods of time

You do understand large vessels are not required... the electric propulsion on a modern torpedo can move a large warhead around under water at enormous speeds... a blackhawk helicopter could carry and release a 3 ton object with its own electric propulsion and a 2.5 ton warhead with floatation gear to make it buoyant in water and very easy to move around under water.

A nuclear charge that size would create immense radiation and be traceable... you could determine whose nuke it was by the source of the Uranium.

Exercise with "fake" explosives at the location of the pipelines by the 6th fleet

https://seapowermagazine.org/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunity-for-research-and-resting-new-technology/

The Swedes have announced that the second NS2 pipeline is fractured near the NS1 holes.

EDIT

See my post 2 down

Bit more about how BALTOPS22 publicity back in June was eerily prescient

SIMRISHAMN, Sweden (June 10, 2022) Lt. j.g. Chris Bianchi, assigned to Explosive Ordnance Disposal Mobile Unit (EODMU) 8, prepares mock explosives for a pierside training event during exercise BALTOPS 22, June 10, 2022. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Daniel James Lanari/Released)
https://sfn.nato.int/newsroom/news-archive/2022/baltops-22-a-perfect-opportunity-for-research-and-testing-new-technology

BALTOPS22 is the premier maritime-focused exercise in the Baltic Region.
The exercise, led by U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Africa, and executed by Naval Striking and Support Forces NATO (STRIKFORNATO), provides a unique training opportunity to strengthen the combined response capabilities critical to preserving freedom of navigation and security in the Baltic Sea.
For over 80 years, U.S. Naval Forces Europe-U.S. Naval Forces Africa (NAVEUR-NAVAF) has forged strategic relationships with our Allies and Partners, leveraging a foundation of shared values to preserve security and stability.
Headquartered in Naples, Italy, NAVEUR-NAVAF operates U.S. naval forces in the U.S. European Command (USEUCOM) and U.S. Africa Command (USAFRICOM) areas of responsibility.
U.S. Sixth Fleet is permanently assigned to NAVEUR-NAVAF, and employs maritime forces through the full spectrum of joint and naval operations.
STRIKFORNATO, headquartered in Oeiras, Portugal, is Supreme Allied Commander Europe’s (SACEUR) premier, rapidly deployable and flexible, maritime power projection Headquarters, capable of planning and executing full spectrum joint maritime operations.
…Story by U.S. Naval Forces Europe-Africa Public Affairs

>>>…BALTOPS 22: A PERFECT OPPORTUNITY FOR RESEARCH AND TESTING NEW TECHNOLOGY
BALTIC SEA – A significant focus of BALTOPS every year is the demonstration of NATO mine hunting capabilities, and this year the U.S. Navy continues to use the exercise as an opportunity to test emerging technology.
In support of BALTOPS, U.S. Navy Sixth Fleet partnered with U.S. Navy research and warfare centers to bring the latest advancements in Unmanned Underwater Vehicle (UUV) mine hunting technology to the Baltic Sea to demonstrate the vehicle’s effectiveness in operational scenarios.
Experimentation was conducted off the coast of *Bornholm, Denmark*, with participants from Naval Information Warfare Center (NIWC) Pacific, Naval Undersea Warfare Center (NUWC) Newport, and Mine Warfare Readiness and Effectiveness Measuring (MIREM) -- all under the direction of U.S. Sixth Fleet Task Force 68.
BALTOPS is an ideal location for conducting mine hunting experimentation due to the region’s unique environmental conductions such as low salinity and varying bottom types.
It is also critical to evaluate emerging mine hunting UUV technology in the Baltic due to its applicability with Allied and partner nations.
This year experimentation was focused on UUV navigation, teaming operations, and improvements in acoustic communications all while collecting critical environmental data sets to advance the automatic target recognition algorithms for mine detection.
“In prior BALTOPS we demonstrated advanced capabilities to detect, re-acquire, and collect images of mine contacts, and transfer those images in near real-time to operators through the use of a specialized Office of Naval Research UUV,” said Anthony Constable, Office of Naval Research Science Advisor to U.S. Sixth Fleet.
“This year, through the work of NIWC Pacific and NUWC Newport, we are showing that this capability can be integrated into programs of record by executing complex multi-vehicle UUV missions with modified U.S. Navy Fleet assets.”
An additional critical objective was to continue to increase the communication range and data transfer capability in order to give the operators more flexibility in mine hunting operations.
Advancements in communication technology, demonstrated this year, have shown a significant improvement in operating ranges over currently used systems.
This provides additional standoff flexibility to the U.S. Navy in conducting safe mine hunting operations.
BALTOPS also provides a unique opportunity for the U.S. Research, Development, and Acquisition communities to exercise the current and emerging UUV technology in real-world operational environments.
This year featured the current and future programs of record for mine hunting UUVs in the MK-18 and Lionfish systems. Both systems were put through the paces over 10 days of mine hunting operations, collecting over 200 hours of undersea data.
“The major benefit of the BALTOPS experimentation is to provide advanced mine hunting capabilities to the operator in the field.
By exercising the future capabilities, U.S. Sixth Fleet can provide valuable feedback to help guide the Navy acquisition community responsible for mine hunting UUV development and procurement,” said Lt. Joshua Lynn, U.S. Sixth Fleet Experimental Lead for BALTOPS.
“This year we have seen the near- and long-term future in mine hunting UUV technology and we are excited to see how quickly the technology and capabilities are improving.”

And…..here we go…..


https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/29/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-pressure-grows-to-declare-russia-terrorist-state-norway-beefs-up-security-at-gas-sites

Russia-Ukraine war live: new leak found on Nord Stream pipelines as pressure grows to declare Russia ‘terrorist state’
Swedish coast guard find fourth leak; Russia has reached legal definition of ‘terrorist state’ under US law, say international experts
15.03
Fourth leak found on Nord Stream pipelines, Swedish coast guard says
Sweden’s coast guard earlier this week discovered a fourth gas leak on the damaged Nord Stream pipelines, a coast guard spokesperson told newspaper Svenska Dagbladet.
“Two of these four are in Sweden’s exclusive economic zone,” coast guard spokesperson Jenny Larsson told the newspaper.
The two other holes are in the Danish exclusive economic zone, according to a translation of the report published by Reuters.
The European Union suspects sabotage was behind the gas leaks on the subsea Russian pipelines to Europe and has promised a “robust” response to any intentional disruption of its energy infrastructure.
17.52
Here are some of the latest images sent to us from Ukraine over the newswires:

An EU official has given a briefing to Reuters saying that an agreement on the next sanctions package against Russia is expected before next week’s EU summit, or at least major parts of the package.
The official went on to tell the agency that they expected the summit to focus on the recent “referendums” carried out by proxy-Russian authorities in occupied areas of Ukraine, possible annexations by Russia, Russia’s nuclear threats and the disruption to the Nord Stream pipelines.
EU leaders are also expected to discuss different ideas for energy price caps at the summit, which the EU official expects to be a tense one “as we are in difficult times”.
Hungary’s Viktor Orbán has already indicated he is unlikely to back another tranche of sanctions, and recently announced a “national consultation” to see if EU sanctions against Russia had the backing of the Hungarian people.
17.15
Given the tricky nature of pulling off a sabotage attack against the Nord Stream pipelines undetected, most analysts agree that only state actors could have carried it out. Russia has been keen to cast the blame in the direction of the US.
This morning the Russian foreign ministry has, according to the RIA Novosti news agency, issued a brief statement saying that the “incident on the Nord Stream occurred in a zone controlled by American intelligence.”
Overnight the Russian embassy in the US issued a statement on Telegram again drawing attention to “the promises made by President Biden to ‘bring an end’ to the Nord Stream 2 project”, and saying:
We note the attempts by some US legislators to put blame on Russia for the incidents. Perhaps, they have a better view from the top of Capitol Hill.
But if that is the case, they must also have seen the US warships’ activities at the very site of the Russian infrastructure disruption just the day before.
Or noticed drones and helicopters fly over there.
Or observed US navy exercises with underwater explosives that have been conducted in the same area some time ago.
What is obvious to us is that those who ponder about the incident seem to forget to ask the main question: who benefits from the pipelines’ rupture?
For our part, we insist on the need for a comprehensive and objective examination of the circumstances of the unprecedented attacks on Russian pipelines.
Russian sources have repeatedly referenced the words of Joe Biden and his administration earlier this year as the US and Germany threatened that Nord Stream 2 would not be opened if Russia invaded Ukraine.
In January state department spokesperson Ned Price said “I want to be very clear: if Russia invades Ukraine one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward. I’m not going to get into the specifics. We will work with Germany to ensure it does not move forward.”
Several days later, on 8 February, at a joint press event with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Biden said that the pipeline project would be ended if Russia put troops on the ground in Ukraine, saying “If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”
17.01
Danish foreign minister says 'intentional' explosions caused Nord Stream leaks
Denmark’s foreign minister, Jeppe Kofod, has said that “intentional” explosions caused the leaks in the Nord Stream pipelines, and that it was an “unprecedented” attack.
He told viewers of Sky News in the UK:
It’s clear we all need to be very aware of our critical infrastructure, when it comes to energy and other infrastructure, so we all take, I think, the right precautionary steps. Because it is unprecedented, as I’ve said, we haven’t seen that type of attack on on infrastructure.
Saying that Danish authorities were working closely with their neighbours, NATO and the EU, he added “we all have to look out for, our critical infrastructure.”
He went on to tell viewers that it emphasised the need to end dependency on Russian energy, saying:
It has been clear for us for a long time in Denmark, and also now for the rest of Europe, that we need to get out of any dependence on Russian energy, whether it’s gas, coal or oil, and we’re working very hard to obtain that objective in Europe.
Denmark is doing its part, where we will focus a lot in investing massively in renewable energy, not least the offshore wind and other type of renewables, and also energy efficiency. So that is a course we will not change.”
16.33
Ed Davey, a former energy minister in the UK and currently leader of the Liberal Democrats, the fourth largest political party in the UK’s parliament, has said he believes it is likely that the Nord Stream pipeline will never reopen.
He told viewers of Sky News in an interview that the leaks in the pipelines were “potential Russian terrorism”. He said:
I think we should be very concerned. Listening to Polish and Danish ministers they do suspect this was an act of Russian terrorism, and that it’s another threat from the Kremlin to Europe’s energy supplies.
But we need to stand bold against Russia supporting Ukraine.
And one thing that is some good news is that the pipeline from Norway to Poland that we so long argued for, the so-called Baltic gas pipeline, is going to now open earlier than originally planned.

We have to wonder why are NATO so concerned about out of use Russian pipelines? Another stick to beat Russia?

Maybe Putin will say that it doesn't matter. The EU had decided on reflection that they didn't need it so Russia has written of its $1.3B or so sunk costs and would be moving as much of its infrastructure as it could to support the Far East. He also hopes that the EU companies nursing loses in the order of $8B are OK with it and will sue whoever blew the pipelines to recover their investment.


AZ
@AZmilitary1
·
1h
According to the NATO statement, the gas leak on the "North Streams" was the result of sabotage

NATO countries are concerned about the state of emergency on the "Northern Streams", all signs point to sabotage — statement

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Russia-Is-Flaring-Less-And-Keeping-Natural-Gas-In-The-Ground.html

Russia Is Flaring Less And Keeping Natural Gas In The Ground

When the breakup between Russia and the European Union began earlier this year, one of the reasons for the severity of the EU’s response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was the assumption that Russia could not afford for its gas exports to drop.

The assumption was an enduring one for oil and gas both. A number of analysts toured the media, arguing that if production at an oil or gas field is suspended, this field eventually risks becoming unproductive forever.

While this is a valid argument overall, Gazprom appears to have found a way to avoid permanent loss of gas production, and it’s not flaring, either. In fact, flaring in Russia—a major “flarer”—is down.

This is according to satellite data cited by a Bloomberg report on Gazprom’s production, which has declined substantially since the Ukraine invasion and the EU’s response to it.

Total gas production is down by 473 million cubic meters daily since the start of the year, data showed, to a total of 838 million cubic meters daily, but flaring is also down, at least over the past month, by 28 percent from a year ago. And this, according to the analysts Bloomberg talked to, is because Gazprom is simply producing less. And it has been doing it for years.

Because demand for natural gas is highly seasonal in nature, Gazprom has organized production at its biggest fields in such a way as to be able to increase or reduce it in relatively short order.

“Due to the uneven consumption patterns, Gazprom has to change its production significantly on monthly basis every year,” Vyacheslav Kulagin, a department head at the Energy Research Institute in the Russian Academy of Sciences, told Bloomberg. “Gazprom’s several major upstream projects function like gas cylinders, where the tap is sometimes opened to the full, and sometimes significantly turned down.”

This means that the risk of Gazprom losing production permanently may well be limited. However, it does not change the fact that most supply to Europe is now almost certainly permanently gone after the suspected sabotage of Nord Stream 1 and Nord Stream 2.

This decline in Russian gas imports may be in line with the European Union’s plans to wean itself off Russian gas fully, but it will mean a shortage while the weaning-off process is taking place.

According to a report by Rystad Energy, European countries are in for a gas shortage from next year to 2025 if Russia stops all deliveries of gas to the continent. This would change in the second half of the decade thanks to more LNG imports, but over the short term, LNG would not be able to cover the lost Russian supply.

European decision-makers seem to be aware of this and have started promoting demand reduction as an integral part of energy crisis plans. Earlier this year, the EU agreed on a Commission proposal for a 15-percent reduction in EU-wide gas demand this winter, but that was a voluntary cut. Now, cuts are on their way to being made mandatory, despite higher than usual gas-in-storage levels in most of the EU.

Meanwhile, although exports of natural gas to Europe have been decimated, exports elsewhere made up for the lost market: Gazprom reported earlier this month that total exports outside the Commonwealth of Independent States were down by 37.4 percent in the first eight months of the year and production was down by 14.6 percent.

Production flexibility appears to be a winning demand management tool for a commodity whose demand patterns are highly variable depending on the season. And it seems Gazprom is weathering the blow from losing most of the European market better than Europe would like to see.

Second the underwater nuclear fireball is contained by water pressure , and collapses soon after and is washed away , with no visible traces above water .

Hahaha.... yeah... underwater nuclear explosions are very hard to spot... can you see on in this video... you have to look very very carefully because the actual explosion in this video is out near the horizon....?



See all the smoke and flame carrying away all the newly irradiated material so the water will be nice and clean and ready to drink... the worlds fastest desalination plant... except that steam is thousands of degrees C and would cook you like a chicken.

Last Thursday

MOSCOW (Reuters) - The Russian-owned operator of the TurkStream gas pipeline said on Thursday that the Netherlands had withdrawn its export licence, but it will continue gas transportation, adding that it had requested the resumption of the license.

Russia and Turkey formally launched TurkStream with capacity of 31.5 billion cubic metres per year in January 2020. The pipeline, which allows Moscow to bypass Ukraine as a transit route to Europe, carries Russian natural gas to southern Europe through the Black Sea and Turkey.

South Stream Transport B.V., a subsidiary of Kremlin-controlled Gazprom, is the Dutch-based operator of the offshore portion of the pipeline. South Stream said the Netherlands withdrew the export licence on Sept. 18 amid wider sanctions from the European Union.

"The introduction of new sanctions does not restrict the continuation of gas transportation by South Stream Transport B.V. In this regard, the gas supply of various industries and millions of households in Turkey and European countries will not be affected in the short and long term, it said."

ADDED

The company has already applied for the renewal of the export license and is awaiting a response from the Dutch authorities.
South Stream Transport B.V. stated that they have all legal grounds to receive an exception under the current sanctions regulation of the European Union.
This is due to the fact that the gas that is transported via the Turkish Stream is subsequently supplied to European countries through national gas transmission systems, thereby helping to ensure their energy security.
Sep 30
https://t.me/azmilitary11/22784

GarryB wrote:

Second the underwater nuclear fireball is contained by water pressure , and collapses soon after and is washed away , with no visible traces above water .

Hahaha.... yeah... underwater nuclear explosions are very hard to spot... can you see on in this video... you have to look very very carefully because the actual explosion in this video is out near the horizon....?

Garry, I have a request...can you include the name who you are quoting, in general. I sometimes struggle to understand who said what and for such cases it is rather interesting who made the comment.

So 5 times bigger than the explosions detected... doesn't that count that weapon out?

A 50m fireball underwater created by a nuclear fission reaction means a 50m air bubble of vapourised sea water that will rise to the surface like any other bubble would... and sea water heated to several thousand degrees by a nuclear explosion does not disappear or be reabsorbed into the sea.

The US Navy will have all sorts of underwater drones and vehicles able to place even quite heavy mines for various purposes including dealing with cables and pipes.

Deeply dug pipes that are quite thick in nature can be punctured in multiple places simply with a matrix of shaped charges... think of a frame holding RPG-7 rocket warheads... remove the safety caps and drop them on to a pipe and each warhead that explodes will bore a hole through the pipe a few cms from other holes... set 50 off together and you can an even pattern of holes in the pipe which would probably collapse into fragments... these pipes have high internal pressure so they are like high pressure balloons... damage to the pipe structure will lead to the pipe to fail and gas to be released.

There is no need for nukes when conventional explosives could do the job.

Saying using nukes would be easier is not true.

A nuke would be much smaller and lighter and easier to place but it sounds like you would need to use four of them and each one would be irradiating the pipes and rocks and water around the location of the attack.

Sniffer planes operating at the Soviet airspace border were used to detect radiation from testing nuclear weapons that were thousands of kms from the sites of the explosions because that stuff is persistent and lasts for years.

The attack was essentially performed in friendly waters... they could have placed the mines there a year ago and just set them off by remote for all we know.

This is the western world trying to bully and corner and isolate Russia... I don't think it would make sense for them to cross the nuclear threshold first... simply because HATO support channels sneaking weapons into the country would be a very tasty target for nuclear weapons that also sends a political message to the west... when Russia fights the west it wont be mucking around....

Amusing the west portrays Putin as a ruthless murderer when it comes to Novachok and Polonium, but during a war they think they can arm his enemies without any response... almost like the novachok and polonium stories were made up and they thought they were dealing with a weakling.

Russia still has lots of options... with all the bullshit in the media Russian Uranium is heating the majority of US homes heated by NPPs, Russia sells gas and coal and oil to lots of countries still that have sanctions on Russia and are sending weapons to Kiev... why?

The EU has effectively blocked Russian tourism to the EU... so why would Russia need embassies with those countries... to listen to lectures about how undemocratic Russia is?

Russia hasn't even committed a significant proportion of its military power to the Ukraine and is still operating in Syria too, but you want them to use nuclear weapons?

Even just in the Ukraine they can start hammering their real enemies... Zelenskys government, their Rada, all the nazis that have enabled the current situation... their oligarchs that went a long with that BS too... their properties and their businesses without hurting the general public very much at all.

Take away their reason to fight... promises from the west.

Start with ultimatums that they will fully follow through on... if western countries supply weapons to Kiev then those supplies become legitimate targets the instant the cross into Kiev airspace and the countries providing those resources will not be allowed Russian gas either directly or indirectly, so Poland buys its Russian gas from Germany... if Germany stops supplying weapons and Poland continues but Germany helps Poland by transfering Russian gas... both will lose Russian gas supplies.

That sort of thing.

The point is that Russia has not gone nuclear... literally or conventionally is because when the other side reacts they can either escalate further or they can back down... if you go full retard then your options are rather limited and rather unpleasant if they escalate further.

We do know they don't want HATO fighting Russia in Europe, but how can they be made to realise that that is the next escalation so they do back down?

Your guess is as good as mine.... and I suspect that is why you are suggesting nuclear weapons... nothing says we have had enough like tactically nuking nazis.

Regarding the NS pipes... they are not enormous deeply buried bunkers like those in Iran... but they are a strategic target they will have been planning to take out since it was suggested.... there wont be thousands of these pipes they need to destroy of this particular type but there are cables all round the world they also will want to be able to cut so having some sort of drone that is essentially a self contained unmanned disposable minisub that sails to specific locations and finds pipes or cables and settles on them... releases a significant charge on the target and then drifts away with the current and then a day later boom.

With it being part of a sub the sub could carry enormously heavy loads... it is just a case of having extra buoyancy chambers that can be empty when carrying the super heavy charge... you settle on the surface... placing the charge and then fill all those buoyancy chambers with sea water till the sub is 3 tons too heavy to float... then release the attachments holding the 3.1 ton mine and float up a little and then drift off with the current silently.

The mine itself could be carved out of rock with downward facing shaped charge HE modules... the electronics and timer could be tiny and made very strong an buoyant so when the mine explodes the case is rock, there are detonators and a tiny digital timer... the latter could be designed to float away with the current leaving long burning fuses with the detonators to explode hours later.

If the US cuts Russia off from the internet then the Russians could target lots of underwater cable hubs that could specifically target the western commerce and military communications network... no need for nukes... this could get really nasty... cold and dark in Europe is nothing... what if there is no Wifi and no broadband!!!!!!!!!!

franco wrote:https://twitter.com/GazpromEN/status/1576901732096802817/photo/1

Gazprom reports that string B of Nord Stream 2 may still be usable following industrial sabotage.

Somebody needs to go in Baltic and blow up that remaining NS2 pipe as well.

Need to make sure that Germany and Europe never gets cheap gas ever again.

I am sure the Germans will blow it up themselves, i dont expect anything from them anymore.