Gorbachev has passed away

Reports Gorbachev has passed away.

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1564710535735771141

Kiko wrote:

franco wrote:Reports Gorbachev has passed away.

https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/status/1564710535735771141

"Gorby" was not apt to fully understand the visceral marrow substrate of Yanquiland and its minions.

He did live long enough to see the fruits of his efforts, or lack thereof rather - in keeping the country together.

The Russo-Ukrainian war; what he in his naivety could probably never have imagined 30 years back when he was outmaneuvered by Yeltsin, Kravchuk and co.
This is ultimately what his leadership culminated in.

Anyway, RIP for what it's worth.

With Gorby, Kravchuk and Shushkevich all having died this year, and Yeltsin 15 years ago - that leaves only Nazarbayev as the last surviving key figure in the events surrounding the Belovezha accords and dissolution of the USSR.

Lol what???

Lol what???

He is a hero in the west, but not in is home country...

He believed western promises that Russia would be welcomed into the international community if they just gave up communism... obviously ignoring that the west was hostile to Russia well before the communist state even existed... and it continues to this day...

It was always all about Russia being too great a rival to be controlled... and nothing at all to do with the political system they operate under.

Case in point the US was able to work with communist China against the Soviet Union when the Soviet Union was perceived as the bigger threat... China was just seen as a super sized North Korea for most of the cold war...

If they could have good terms with communist China... with a bit of effort... why not have good terms with communist Soviet Union, which was the real threat with tens of thousands of nukes... but for some reason that didn't make sense... without a powerful enemy how can you justify such a defence budget?

Social programmes and healthcare and education might all be ruined with over funding...

TMA1 wrote:Lol what???

Yeah you are right.
Guy forgot about 100k (as some add 250k) deaths due to wars that started at each end of the falling empire.
A great legacy I would say.

ALAMO wrote:

TMA1 wrote:Lol what???

Yeah you are right.
Guy forgot about 100k (as some add 250k) deaths due to wars that started at each end of the falling empire.
A great legacy I would say.

Easily >200k in all the resulting wars, both interstate and civil.

I find it amazing that people say the breakup was "bloodless".

****'s sake, even in Moscow itself there were armed clashes.

But the social catastrophe is above all, killing many, many millions.

Gorby's immensely revered in the West since he destroyed the only rival the U.S. ever had. In the former USSR it's more ambivalent. Of course, many passionately curse his legacy, while some are like "he gave us McDonald's, but Putin ruined that", but most people seem to be like "meh".

Dr.Snufflebug wrote:
I find it amazing that people say the breakup was "bloodless".

Those are the very same people who call Jelcyn "a democrat".

It is peculiar how Clinton can say "it's the economy, stupid" but Russians are supposed to appreciate being made into paupers and
having at least 8 million die as a result of the shock therapy witch doctor "reforms". Clearly Americans and other westerners have
a deeply ingrained sense of special entitlement that makes them blind to the suffering of non-westerners. That is why 85% of the
world did not go along with the western sanctions spasm against Russia even though western influence is pervasive.

the break-up came from inside, the KGB. It would be very naive fro anyone to believe that only ONE MAN destroyed a state like USSR

George1 wrote:the break-up came from inside, the KGB. It would be very naive fro anyone to believe that only ONE MAN destroyed a state like USSR

The KGB was not the issue. It was second tier heads of the republics that staged a coup. Yeltsin, Kravchuk, etc. were responsible for the break up of the
USSR. Gorbie was at best a useful idiot or at worst the principle enabler. He started the phony galsnost nonsense that knocked out the pillars supporting the
state. The acceptance of culpability for Katyn was part of Gorbie's de facto 5th column activity. The admission of guilt for assorted crimes of the state were central
for the scheme by the republican nomenklatura to overthrow the system. They rallied indignation among their local populations. Yugoslavia was also destroyed
by republican administrations/elites.

The USSR was destroyed because the system held back the wealth of the party elite. Elites always emerge in human societies since decision making is
always stratified. People who think their vote matters are idiots. You make no decisions at the ballot box. The choice of parties you vote for and who
runs them is not open to you. In the USSR this was farcically more simple since there was no choice at the ballot. Anyway, the Soviet system did not satiate
the ravenous hunger of the scum that seeks to fill elite positions.

In terms of the KGB and the military, they held a pool of loyal professionals such as Putin who later emerged to save Russia from the ongoing collapse. The
"siloviki" were not all rotten like their bosses. But of course some of them were and served as henchmen for the oligarchs that took over. Khodorkovsky
employed the former head of the KGB 5th directorate which was responsible for repression.

The "one man" argument applies to all of the crimes attributed to Stalin. It is part of the same reductionist nonsense as claiming that Putin micromanages
all of Russia. The eager beaver gulag stuffers were Trotskyists and Stalin's enemies. But Stalin did not control every aspect of the system to be able to
snap his fingers and have whatever he wanted to happen.

Correction: the head of the KGB 5th directorate was hired by Gusinsky. The media oligarch who ran off to Spain. Khodorkovsky hired other goons
and filled dozens of cemetery plots. Al Capone was more clean than the "democrats" like Khodorkovsky and Berezovsky who took over in the 1990s.

Firebird wrote:Western media's fawning over him epitomises was an absolute uberprick he was.

Well said, western propaganda outlets never present foreign leaders who are a threat to the "Liberal"(Globalist) World Order in a good light, Putin, Xi, Orban etc... all demonized for prioritizing national over foreign interests.

GarryB wrote:

Lol what???

He is a hero in the west, but not in is home country...

He believed western promises that Russia would be welcomed into the international community if they just gave up communism... obviously ignoring that the west was hostile to Russia well before the communist state even existed... and it continues to this day...

It was always all about Russia being too great a rival to be controlled... and nothing at all to do with the political system they operate under.

Case in point the US was able to work with communist China against the Soviet Union when the Soviet Union was perceived as the bigger threat... China was just seen as a super sized North Korea for most of the cold war...

If they could have good terms with communist China... with a bit of effort... why not have good terms with communist Soviet Union, which was the real threat with tens of thousands of nukes... but for some reason that didn't make sense... without a powerful enemy how can you justify such a defence budget?

Social programmes and healthcare and education might all be ruined with over funding...  

Uhm, social programs and healthcare are overfunded.
Last i checked, the welfare budget was bigger than even the military's.

Let me see if i can find that pie chart again.

US healthcare is free is it?

The US School system over funded you say...

Make sure when you post these pie charts to show the poor underfunded US military you remove the Northrop/Grumman and Boeing logos...

Firebird wrote:He may not have been the only one in Russia in that era, but he was a knobwipe of the very LOWEST order.

Destroyed the Soviet Union, was full of vanity and boasting.
Loved the plaudits from Uncle Sham and co. A faux intellectual halfwit who should have kept his trap shut and hidden away, in shame, afterwards.

But no, he chose to live on 666 Whatever Avenue in Western fag capital Fag Fransisco... and appeared in Pizza Hut adverts instead of advancing the case of Russia worldwide. Instead of doing that, he had the neck to pretend Putin was causing stagnation in Russia.

The Western filth media were using him as a propaganda tool on full power yesterday.

I wonder if the taste of Uncle Sham's manky ball juice was worth it for him.

Gob-shite-chev was no better than Boris Vodkas-in.
An ugly stain on the history of the Russian world.
Unlike most former leaders he had many decades to try and at least go some way to redeem himself. But no... he was delusional to the end.

Western media's fawning over him epitomises was an absolute uberprick he was.

Now that's a eulogy!

Do you know the most bizarre part of the whole story?
No matter how one judge him, his actions, and the heritage he left over - objectively he was a big format politician.
Responsible for a series of mutual de-arming agreements, architect of the Perestroyka, some kind of opening Soviet Union, and decomposing it at the end.
A big format figure, objectively.
Information about his death in the European media was a side story, written with a small font.
And the most important part of the info was that he was playing in a Pizza Hut commercial.
And I am bloody serious.
This content is made for amebas.

Sorry I misunderstood. I didnt know much about the guy but what little I did did not endear me to him. I remember someone old and who I respected said his birth mark "was the sign of Cain the murderer". Was old enough to understand this and that it was nothing good. I found it strange too as a young man because I grew up hearing he was a hero. I'm not surprised it is one of a thousand other myths of the 20th century.

GarryB wrote:US healthcare is free is it?

The US School system over funded you say...

Make sure when you post these pie charts to show the poor underfunded US military you remove the Northrop/Grumman and Boeing logos...

Didn't say anything about education, that's a clusterF of a situation, to say nothing of a certian ideoligy's "long march" through the institutions

Wellfare on the otherhand completly surpasses US military spending, look up the total federal spending if you like.

AlfaT8 wrote:

Uhm, social programs and healthcare are overfunded.
Last i checked, the welfare budget was bigger than even the military's.

Let me see if i can find that pie chart again.

The US Armed Forces are one big social program to begin with.

How else would they scoop up Shaqanerious and DaVontey? By telling them that to die for one's country is an honor?

LOL.